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I'm a few months into S (living in separate houses) from my STBXWH and will be initiating D proceedings very soon. WH and I share two young children (between 3-6). The kids live with me full-time, visiting WH for one overnight a week. I understand my children are adjusting to the situation and upset about it, and I've noticed changes in their behavior since the S, although they actually seem to be handling it really well at this point.

There are noteworthy times when they don't handle things as well, however. That is mainly whenever there are transitions between the houses. Recently, they've both pushed back about spending the night with WH and gotten pretty upset about the prospect. When they come back from an overnight at WH's, they are generally clingier with me, but also sometimes very upset about him not being "at home" anymore. At one point, relatively early on in the S my children chastised me (many times) about how "Daddy misses you and wants to come home" and "can you let Daddy come home". At that point, I had a conversation with WH and let him know in no uncertain terms that he needed to keep his emotions in check around them and should not be talking to them about "wanting to come home" (which he denied doing) or even to other people around them (which he also denied doing) or moping/crying in front of them (which he was also doing). Still, it was very obvious that these ideas, which my children had never had before, came directly from him.

Following Thanksgiving, both of my children have brought up again how they miss Daddy and want him to come back home. Given that they've been so well adjusted lately, I assume this is (again) a result of WH saying something to/in front of them.

My concern is how to handle talking to them about the D, especially considering I expect WH to get very emotional once he has D papers. So far we've just told them we S because we have grown-up problems and don't want to live together. His reactions around the kids are undermining that, however, making me concerned that they're beginning to blame me for the S (and soon to be D).

What are your experiences and thoughts on how to handle this situation? Would it make sense to tell them something like, "When people get married they make a promise to be each other's special person. Daddy broke that promise and that's why we're getting divorced"?

As background, I am the child of D parents with a lot of infidelity (and abuse) on the part of my father. I was around my kids' age when my parents D as well. Growing up, my father played the victim and manipulated me into thinking he was the victim. My mother took the high road and didn't tell me until I was a teenager about his abuse and infidelity. I am trying not to repeat my mother's (well-intentioned) mistakes, but also don't want to cause more harm to my kids by telling them more than they need to know.

Any opinions and thoughts are welcome, whether in your experience as an adult or if you also dealt with D parents.

I don’t think I’d tell them Daddy broke a promise . They’d likely pressure you to just forgive as they’ve been taught to do with each other. I’d be more inclined to say "Daddy and I love you bother very much and I am sorry he seems so sad around you two, but Daddy chose this situation even if he seems sad about it now. It was his choice and unfortunately, when you get older you’ll realize he can’t unmake this choice. "

OntheOtherSide:
Thank you for your feedback! That's great advice. I was actually trying to figure out the best way to word it, since I was wondering if that might result in pushback. Honestly, my kids already try to negotiate and challenge everything, so I don't expect this to be any different!

They’d likely pressure you to just forgive as they’ve been taught to do with each other.

That's probably true and I think your wording is better. I had also read what I thought was pretty bad advice to say that Mommy and Daddy don't love each other anymore, which I subsequently read could result in the kids wondering if Mommy/Daddy might stop loving them.

My older child brought up how much she wants Daddy to live at home with us again tonight on the phone with him. It's maddening, not because she has the thought, but because it seems to be instigated by him. He's very passive aggressive, so I have no doubt he may be planting those seeds (and then pretending he didn't).

I'm also looking for ways to explain the divorce through books. Are there any books that would be good to help normalize/explain divorce to young children?

I remember having this conversation with my younger son. He was about 11 when everything went down. He came home from visiting JM’s "bachelor pad" and said that Daddy was really, really sorry and wanted to come home. Couldn’t I let him come home?

I said, " if you were walking by and I stuck my foot out and tripped you, and then said it was an accident and I was sorry, would you forgive me?"

He said of course he would.

I said, "What if I did it again? And again? What if I just kept doing it and saying I was sorry? Would you maybe not believe me anymore?"

He got it. We talked then about what it means to say the words "I’m sorry" versus making amends.

HFSSC:
Thank you for sharing your experience and insights! That's an interesting way of approaching it, and I could see how that would be effective with an older child. My young ones would probably still think you should forgive them, since they're at the age that they make mistakes and (accidenally and on purpose) hurt others often.

In a way, I guess I am glad this isn't an isolated problem. It's so nice to know there are other people that have been through this (not to mention the rollercoaster of h*ll that DDAY and its aftermath are) and I'm so grateful to have you all at SI.

I'm sending the D paperwork today, and readying myself for the fallout. I had trouble sleeping last night thinking about it. I'm hopeful that it goes better than I anticipate, but I won't hold my breath. I have my kids for the next few days, so at least they won't be with their dad to witness the immediate aftermath when he receives the papers. Even though we've been living apart for 3 months and I haven't said anything about R, I still expect him to act/be shocked and amazed when he receives the paperwork. He seems to be very good at burying his head in the sand.

I was only three when my parents split and four when the divorce finalized so I don't really remember much about it. I'm sure my mom explained it to me, but I don't remember feeling overly traumatized really. It just was what it was.

The reason I wanted to chime in here was to offer some advice from a child of divorce perspective. The one thing I can say is that neither of my parents ever spoke badly of the other to me. But. When I was not much older than your oldest, I remember my dad dropping me off after weekends with him and he would walk me inside. My mom would always say hello to him and he would pretend like he didn't hear her. I can count on one hand how many times I saw them speak to each other my whole life. Even times when it was about me (graduations, awards, etc) they couldn't stand side by side to celebrate it. It wasn't my mom, god love her she always tried. It was him. So even though he never said anything, his actions showed exactly how he felt about her, and also that I didn't matter enough to him for him to grow up and deal for my sake (Side note that my marriage reminded me of that lesson about words vs actions... funny how that worked out). Took me a lot of years to unpack all of the damage he did and ultimately ended with me choosing to cut ties with him.

So I'm telling you this to say: first, don't ever EVER speak ill of him to your kids (not saying you do, just telling you it matters that you don't), and second, don't ever stop trying to maintain a civil relationship with him even if he acts like an ass. Your kids will notice who comports themselves well and who acts like a giant baby and believe me when I tell you it matters to them, even if they don't know it does right now.

I thankfully didn't have kids with my xwh, it's gotta make it so much harder to deal with everything. I'm so sorry.

Have you considered therapy for the kids and asking the therapist for the best way to handle that in your specific situation?

My parents divorced when I was in high school; my dad was a cheater. They never fought; when he left it shocked us kids. But, once he was out of the house I never wanted my parents to get back together. My mother became a person, her own person, and she was strong. As the oldest I saw more and knew more of what was going on. I think my sister knew some also. But my brother was only 7 and didn't know details. Some years ago, after he was married and had kids he asked mom why they divorced. He had no idea but wondered over the years and it confirmed some things and actions he saw. Dad married the OW and they've been married 40 years - poor her. We are pretty sure he has cheated on her also.

At some point my sister moved in with Dad and step-mom. She regrets that. Brother moved in with them later for just a couple of years. I don't think he regrets it, but then he was the baby and the boy so he was special Our age differences made each of us view the situation differently I think.

Our parents are well-behaved when they have to be together for a family event. But strict boundaries are drawn. Dad will always try to cross that line but all of us have Mom's back and she will just move out of range and vent to one of us later. It works for us and our dynamic.

Kids will find their balance. And if therapy is available it will help them learn boundaries.

EllieKMAS:

Thank you for sharing your perspective and your kind words. As a child of divorce, it's so interesting how different everyone's experiences can be. I'm sorry to hear that your dad acted that way toward your mom and you had to make the difficult decision to cut ties with him. Some people just don't get it and don't seem to learn from their mistakes. Did your parents experience infidelity in their M as well?

I was only three when my parents split and four when the divorce finalized so I don't really remember much about it. I'm sure my mom explained it to me, but I don't remember feeling overly traumatized really. It just was what it was.

I'm glad you didn't feel overly traumatized. My children don't seem super traumatized (so far) either, but I do worry, especially since although I'm glad my parents got divorced (my father was abusive in all the ways, so much so that he was kicked out of his church), I feel like I did deal with a lot of trauma throughout my childhood. I think the trauma came from how it was handled (mainly by my father) both during the D and afterwards (manipulating me, endless rounds of court custody battles, etc.). I feel very fortunate that I had a mother that was able to handle all the bullsh*t he dished out and managed to always be there for me.

I have been very careful about not saying anything bad about my STBXWH, but I do struggle when my children talk about him as if he did everything for them, when in reality, it was generally me comforting them when they got hurt, taking care of them while they were sick, etc, even when we were together. We have been more civil and "nice" post DDay than I thought was possible. Honestly, I've been amazed at my reaction/behavior since Dday. I expected to fly off the handle, but I found that I have actually become very detached, calculated and rational. The emotions have been swirling around inside of me, but they've been contained when I'm around WH.

The reason I wanted to chime in here was to offer some advice from a child of divorce perspective. The one thing I can say is that neither of my parents ever spoke badly of the other to me. But. When I was not much older than your oldest, I remember my dad dropping me off after weekends with him and he would walk me inside. My mom would always say hello to him and he would pretend like he didn't hear her. I can count on one hand how many times I saw them speak to each other my whole life.

That had to be difficult. My parents were similar to this, but it went both ways. Even if my father was there, my stepmom (who was also the OW) would drop me off/pick me up. My father and mother never interacted again outside of court. This is another reason I hope the D doesn't get too contentious. I don't know if I can be the bigger person if we have a long drawn-out court battle.

(Side note that my marriage reminded me of that lesson about words vs actions... funny how that worked out).

This is something I've learned a lot about since DDay in my own M. I've looked back on the entire relationship and now see so many times when WH's words didn't match his actions. He had such a way with words (and I was so in love) that I didn't even notice.

So I'm telling you this to say: first, don't ever EVER speak ill of him to your kids (not saying you do, just telling you it matters that you don't), and second, don't ever stop trying to maintain a civil relationship with him even if he acts like an ass. Your kids will notice who comports themselves well and who acts like a giant baby and believe me when I tell you it matters to them, even if they don't know it does right now.

Thank you for sharing this advice. I am working hard to avoid doing this, but don't want the kids to later blame me for the D or "hurting Daddy," which is what I'm grappling with right now. In my case, as a child I'm grateful that my mother didn't speak badly about my father, but almost wish she had opened up just a little since I was so brainwashed by him. My father was on a whole different level than my WH, though, so I don't expect that level of manipulation from him toward our children.

You need to explain to your children that adults will do things that make living together impossible. You don’t need to tell them the gory details but you need to make it clear that their father is just not someone you can live with. Doesn’t mean you don’t love him and don’t want him to be happy, but you just can’t stay married to him.

If you don’t give them some age appropriate explanation they will blame you and resent you as they get older.

Tell them that their dad is still your friend but he cannot be your husband.

Maybe consider a family dinner once or twice a month w/ him& kids. It could be fast food or a snack. But if they see you can still be friends and live apart happily, they may be less affected.

Divorce does not have to be ugly and contentious. You can try to make the best out of a bad situation.

Landslide

Explaining divorce to children and helping with that trauma is basic bread-and-butter for IC’s and therapists that specialize in dealing with children’s issues. I would definitely 100% have a professional help you in handling this.
This is what I would do:
I would take the initiative of asking around for a counselor that handles issues like this. Chances are your kids teacher, school or preschool have some recommendations or can even provide this service. Once you have a name lined up and an appointment (maybe give it 2-3 weeks in advance) you take this further:

In a 100% traceable way – like in an email (not text, not phone) tell your husband that you want to have a specialist talk to your kids about the impeding changes in their lives, and that you have Dr. Igor (or whatever) who is a child’s emotional development therapist (or whatever credentials) booked for XX/XX at 9 AM. That this person wants the two of you to meet him and discuss what’s going on, and will then probably later have a session with the kids. You want confirmation from H that he accepts this plan and will take part. If not then what alternative he is suggesting to help the kids.

You want all/any answers in a confirmable manner – as in a reply to the email.
If no response in 3 days – send again with a reminder.
Repeat as necessary. If no response a week before appointment consult with the specialist. Chances are you will be allowed to bring the kids anyways.
Remind again regularly.

If he responds with a phone-call then no matter what he says – reaffirm with an email:
"Thanks for the call today at 3PM. I take it from your call that you are in agreement that we carry on with the appointment as planned."
Or "I take it from your response that you do not want to use a professional to help our children. As I requested I await to hear what alternative you suggest."

The goals for these steps are several:
It ramifies for him the finality of your decision to divorce and that it will have impact on the kids life.
It provides you with a traceable account of sane, sensible and logical steps to help your kids with this trauma, empowering you when and if custody becomes an issue.
It sets a deadline for how long he can be the @sshole.

I will be responding to everyone's responses, but it may take me a few posts!

PSTI:
I hadn't considered therapy for the kids yet, given they seem to be handling it okay, but that may be something I should explore, at least for the short-term. I'm also cognizant of the cost, as I don't have insurance that covers any of these costs. I've been in IC for a few months myself which was a big "milestone" for me, as I've always been averse to therapy (for me, no judgment toward others that find it helpful). I have been surprised to find that it's been really beneficial, however. My IC has given me a number of suggestions throughout on how to handle things with my kids, but having a professional that could talk to the kids directly would obviously be ideal.

nothisfriend:
It's interesting how different every person's experience can be, even siblings. You mentioned that your younger brother had a vastly different experience and understanding of the D. I found that to be true for me with my parent's D. My sibling is >5 years older than I am and understood exactly why my parents were D, and was very aware of (and unfortunately had direct experience with) my father's abuse. Since I was so young when they D, I was more susceptible to my father's manipulations. Still,

Dad married the OW and they've been married 40 years - poor her. We are pretty sure he has cheated on her also.

Unfortunately, many cheaters are repeat offenders, it seems. I wish I had taken note of that huge red flag when I entered my relationship, as my STBXWH openly shared with me that he had cheated throughout his first marriage. Of course, he had all his "reasons" and rationalizations, but I feel foolish looking back and realizing that the signs were always there.

Our parents are well-behaved when they have to be together for a family event. But strict boundaries are drawn. Dad will always try to cross that line but all of us have Mom's back and she will just move out of range and vent to one of us later. It works for us and our dynamic.

It's great that your parents are able to be civil and still interact with each other for everyone's sake and great that your family can rally around your mom to support her. I hope that's where I land as well, although I don't delude myself into imagining I'll enjoy STBXH's company and that's fine.