SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There is another thread where a gentlemen is saying that a woman should disclose her sexual history before starting a new relationship. That a woman basically owes this "transparency" to a man.

Comments like his have occurred here in the past. I'm just curious, how many men think this is acceptable? Does it go both ways? Is it acceptable if a woman requires the same information?

I personally feel that neither sex should base a person on their past if they went about their sexual activities with integrity. Having a high count of sexual partners in your past could be an indicator of having some unhealed trauma, but it could also just be that they enjoyed sex and exploring their sexuality. I wouldn't base whether a person is a safe bet as relationship material based solely on their sexual history.

Also, is it OK to take out your anxiety on a new partner just because your last partner was an ass hat? I personally feel that if you have baggage from previous trauma, it is your responsibility to deal with it and heal. Nobody should have to walk on eggshells for trauma that they didn't cause. I've never treated a new partner in a way that they didn't deserve just because I chose an abusive partner in the past, so I wouldn't appreciate a new partner doing it to me. It is not my responsibility to fix/heal someone and it's not anyone else's responsibility to fix/heal me.

I would really like to hear others', that have healed from trauma, opinions on these issues.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 10:27 PM, Saturday, January 13th]

My xw was promiscuous in college, outside of starting her affair with an exboyfriend while we were dating and into our marriage. I didnt judge her by her sexual history. I did want to know how many sexual partners she had. Mostly because one of the people she had sex with told her he acquired genital warts (not from her, she came up negative). I think it is important to know someones history to determine your own safety in that regard. I think women should especially know their partners history to decide if the risks are worth the rewards. In a time when STDs are more prevalent, it behooves both partners to be as safe as possible this can include knowing partners or STD test results. In reference to the thread mentioned, I think at the point when you are married, you cant go back and start judging them for their actions prior to your relationship.
I have told both my kids to be safe when having sex, use a condom, you dont want a lifetime of dealing with a problem that took seconds to prevent.
Now. Im sure im going to sound hypocritical based on what i wrote above but I never asked my XW for details regarding her prior relationships outside of the one that she cheated on me with. Much like a person may try things sexually with one partner that they determined they didnt like, they are under no obligation to try it with another partner. If a person says no, then its no, an explanation is not required of why they dont want to do it. Yes the act may be enjoyable with a different partner but it is not a "you did it for them, now you must do it for me."
My wife was a wonderful person, she still is. We are friendly and might even date again. I will never marry her or anyone again. She is ashamed of her sexual history because she feels tainted by the poor coping skills she had. Her actions were careless and she felt like a hypocrite teaching our kids about safe sex. Our kids do not know our sexual history and never will. They do know about her affair and it has hurt their relationship.
People are capable of making the same mistake over and over until they understand what they are doing wrong. If everyone was capable of picking the perfect person that was meant for them, one that would never hurt them this would likely never be an issue, but people dont so here we are. I would never know whether I like an apple over an orange unless I tried both. People need to know what person "fits" them, sexually or otherwise. These things also change as we get older. My kids used to love certain foods when little that they cant stand now because "their taste buds changed." My feelings toward women has changed since DDay as well. Part of the reason I havent dated anyone since my divorce is because I havent yet been able to trust myself to give myself fully to another.
This is a long, rambling, jumbled mess of thoughts but the bottom line is that we become who we ARE through the experiences we HAVE. People make mistakes and learn. The poster of the other thread would not be WHO they are without the experiences they HAD. The person the poster IS NOW is the person their spouse fell in love with(warts and all).

The only history your partner owes you is something criminal. Sexual history would only matter to me if they were abused and it was a discussion about past trauma. Most guys want to marry a virgin that screws like a porn star but that's not reality.

My wife's number is 26 I think? I'm number 26 as far as I know. Mine is like 6 if you include dates where oral sex happened. Vaginal intercourse...3. Bottom line if you judge someone on their body count you'll end up getting counted out.

@ notarunnerup, The distinction is the word "owe." I have no problem with a serious partner disclosing my sexual history for the reasons you stated. I just take offense when it is a) one sided, and b) used to determine my worth. FTR I haven't had a lot of sexual partners, mostly because I was with my ex for soooo long. However, I don't think it should matter if I had 10 or 25. It's misogynistic to slut shame women. I'm positive that my number would be higher if I hadn't been with ex for my 20s and 30s. Hell he was the 2d man I'd ever slept with. I was military for many years. Most of my friends were males. The single ones, and some of the married ones, had a different F buddy each night during the weekend. That would add up to more than 100 in a year. And you know what, there's nothing wrong with that when you're young and trying to figure out who you are and who you want. But if women were to slut shame men, the human race would die out. It was the while attitude that two adults, both not cheaters, but one is being shut shamed because she is a woman. Her man "deserves" a body count.

Thank you both for your input.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 2:52 AM, Sunday, January 14th]

Survivor, I am a storm of conflicting opinions. I think a person is more than the number of partners they had but I do think it’s important that both partners are aware of each others sexual history. No, I don’t think someone should be like " Hi, I am Joe and I want to have sex with you. You will be the 8th person that has touched my genitals." One night stands aside, I think it is important. A person shouldn’t be judged by their past though. My ex-wife also had a higher number of partners than I did. She is not a number to me. It is not required to provide that information, but it is important, if you are serious about each other to share it.

Stilllivin, I completely agree that there is a double standard. I hate that ideology. My wife had more sexual partners than me. That doesn’t make her a slut. I know guys who had multiple partner in the 3 digit range. I don’t think it makes them a stud. I would like both my kids to be abstinate before marriage. I told them that it’s unrealistic to expect them to be celibate. They can decide how they want to proceed. I also told them that waiting until marriage to have sex and finding them incompatible does not sound like a happy life. The only way to know what they like is to go out there and try it, but safely.
I also agree with you that at this point he already chose her by marrying her. If the answer she gives is something that determines whether he will stay married to her then he is a poor excuse of a husband (man).

I would hope to be able to safely be transparent about my history and expectations (informed consent) with any future partner.
And to receive appropriate transparency in return from any future partner.

If someone wanted my body count to be one or less I would not be a good fit for them. I am, however, a transparent, monogamous, and responsible partner. So if that fit with their needs and expectations we could potentially be a good fit.

I have been tested (and appropriately retested at the proper interval since EX WH engaged in such high risk behavior and flat up lied to me about his premarital and marital behavior) for the greatest risk of MY past to any future partner—all the people EX WH "brought unprotectedly into" our marriage without my knowledge and consent. I would expect any potential partner to be appropriately tested as well.

I knew my ex wifes count as it was zero. While I can speculate my current wifes count, I can't promise that it's exact. We've been married for close to 10 years. Why would it matter?" Neither of us were virgins. Neither of us are in the triple digits. We're compatible. Nothing else really matters.

I agree 100% with grubs

Both ways. If someone asked why wouldn't you answer? I have had enough stonewalling, 'It's none of your business' or 'I don't remember' to last me a lifetime. If they did any of those things i would simply move along.

Plus -- everyone knows from Schoolhouse Rock (or De La Soul) that 3 is the magic number.

JasonCh
I hear you about the gaslighting etc

This seems like a potentially touchy subject… the thread is making me think.

Having experienced a person who got to know me well so they could pretend to be someone they were not and emotionally knife me later, my answer would depend on where I was in a relationship. Early on it might be something simple I might answer like "more than one" or a question I might ask in return to get at why they were interested. "I am curious why you are asking."
"What are you looking for with respect to this in a partner?"

If they seemed likely to sl-t shame someone who ever had sex with someone they were not married to, they would not be a good fit for me. If the relationship was progressing and they wanted to talk about risk, consent, a "sexual contract" like exclusivity, or testing or test results, or moral values then increasingly more intimate conversations as time went on, that would work for me.

@shehawk, perfect response. You worded it exactly how I feel. Thank you. Nobody owes someone their sexual past, but it is an important conversation to have because of the prevalence of STDs and whether you used safe practices.
If I wasn't that serious yet, I'd definitely tell a man to pound sand. And not because I was worried for being judged for sleeping with "too many" men, but because it's none of their business at that point in the relationship.
I've been asked in the past if I was sleeping with any other partners. I wasn't and still told the man it was none of his business because it wasn't ANY of his business. I knew for a fact he was, but I didn't ask such an invasive question when we hadn't agreed on monogamy.

This topic seems to gets folks emotionally invested. This may be a internet message board phenomenon, but I got curious after reading some of these comments and looked up women who'd lied about being a virgin before marriage, and then men who'd done the same. These are extreme examples of the "body count" discussion, but I thought it would be interesting to see the insights.

This may also be the particular algorithm that pushes content to me, but the boards I saw for women lying were full of comments like "Why would anyone care?" and "It's none of his business." Lots of accusations of misogyny and sl#t shaming in the responses.

Meanwhile, a lot of the comments for men lying were along the lines of "Dump him, he's probably lying about something else," "Men are all liars and pigs" and "he used you...he doesn't deserve you."

Not exclusively, mind you. Many of the commenters were even handed, but at the fringes these were the general tone.

It also seems like there's a lot of anecdotal examples of women underestimating their partners and men overestimating. Obviously this is at least in part cultural, as women with several partners are more likely judged more harshly than men. But it's also generally a truism that men are often judged harshly for having too few partners.

[This message edited by 1994 at 1:08 AM, Monday, January 15th]

"but I got curious after reading some of these comments and looked up women who'd lied about being a virgin before marriage, and then men who'd done the same. These are extreme examples of the "body count" discussion, but I thought it would be interesting to see the insights."

Another one of EX WH’s lies ^^ believe it or not

I don’t think there is a problem with either partner asking the other about sexual history - I’ve always considered it a safety issue. I was in HS when the AIDS epidemic was really getting a lot of publicity and the whole "you’re sleeping with every partner they’ve ever had" has always stuck with me. Asking for the purpose of judging or shaming is a no-go.

And no, it is not ok for you to tolerate someone else’s poor behavior because they are still working out their trauma. If it’s not worked out and they can’t regulate their behavior they shouldn’t be in a relationship yet.

I'm just curious, how many men think this is acceptable? Does it go both ways? Is it acceptable if a woman requires the same information?

I have been D for over a decade and this question has never been posed during any of my dating (whether it was casual or serious).

It was not hidden, just never discussed. Now we did discuss safe relations and getting a clean bill of health first but that was the end of that.

(and I do have trauma in my past)

I think it is because, at my age, you pretty much have a history.

Comments like his have occurred here in the past. I'm just curious, how many men think this is acceptable? Does it go both ways? Is it acceptable if a woman requires the same information?

First time posting here. This is very simple. If a man that you are dealing with is of the opinion that body count does matter, that is his standard and if you would like to have a relationship with him, you should disclose that information. If on the other hand a woman requires the same information of her man, the man should do the same. From what I can tell, most women don't care that much about man's sexual past, while most men are at least somewhat interested in woman's past. There is nothing wrong with having different requirements because men and women are different. People are different. Now, whether or not studies about pair bonding, promiscuity and divorce rates are legitimate, that's another story. But there must be a reason why relationships are not working out and forums like this one exist.

Some of the responses on the original thread were so misogynistic that they would twist my ovaries – if I had any. They even make me – a middle-aged conservative male – cringe.

The ONLY thing you owe your partner is the truth about now.
If he were to ask about your past sexual history, dating history etc then you might hear out his reasons, and if he too was willing to be so open about his past, but you don’t owe him any report on your past beyond what is reasonable for the health of a normal relationship.
Long gone are the days where you displayed the sheet of the marital bed after the first night to prove virginity.
And to isolate this requirement to women…

Now – If either of you had something that could be considered "not normal" in your sexual past then yes – I do think sharing that would make sense. Like if you had paid your way though college as an escort, had a fantasy for BDSM domination, or if he had been in a same-sex relationship or did time for rape or whatever. But that sharing is to create a foundation – a base you can both work from. Or away from.

I think it is an important conversation to have.
If I was dating and started to get serious enough to where I want to form a relationship I would likely ask. I dont think the number should dictate whether a person is good or bad, but there is alot that the number might convey. Like I said earlier in this thread. My wife was promiscuous in college, easily 4 times more partners then myself. She wasnt a bad person, but she did have poor boundaries and used sex as a way to keep a persons interest. If I saw a large number I might want some follow up questions as to why so many partners. Was it just fun (perfectly fine), was it bad relationship skills (concerning if I am interesed in them) was was this some old phase from years ago? (Im in my mid 40s, Im not expecting someone with no past or low sexual partners) Is there or has there been any consequences from this (STDs, cheating, or obsessive exes). Was alcohol or drugs involved?

I dont know that these questions are required to be answered but I would want to know some of them. Im not expecting someone interested in just a ONS to ask this, but if a relationship develops, I think this information should be discussed.
A woman has just as much of a right to ask me what my sexual history is. Her life could be affected by the answers. How many people caught an STD and when questioning their sexual partner received the answer "you didnt ask." People omit the truth without lying to get what they want. We can argue that a person has the obligation to disclose any STDs they might have, but when do you have that conversation.
I would assume that a person with a high number of partners would have a higher likelyhood of possessing an STD, but a person can have a single sexual partner and get an STD. People can even be born with them due to a parent having an STD. People with these conditions (High or LowSexual Partners, STDs or not) should not be shamed. We are all sexual beings.

A person should not be shamed for any of this unless they are being reckless and lying to their partners.

I think this discussion is a touchy one, as on the whole, men and women value different things in partners. And of course, there is personsl preference. Add to this, stage of life, and things get complicated.

The bottom line, is that one partner has the right to have preferences or requirements, and the other can agree or walk. That's the reality of relationships.

So, is it owed? No, there's not an obligation to disclose your sexual history. That said, I wouldn't get into a relationship with a woman who didn't tell me about her history. She can have the same expectations as I do, I'll tell her whatever she wants to know. I want to actually know my partner, and part of that is to know where she is coming from, her relationships, and all of that stuff.

I don't give the slightest sliver of shit how many people she slept with before me.

What I do care about is her sexual history - has she cheated before? Why did her previous relationships end? I don't need to the nitty gritty, but if she's cheated before than that's something I want to know and I think everyone on this board would probably want to know as well.

How her previous relationships ended - if she says something like 'all my previous boyfriends were assholes' then that's something that I might be skeptical of. Maybe she's the problem.