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So, just over a month ago, I found out that my H had been living a double life for the last 21 years (see my previous post).
He had started seeing this other woman back in 2003. A full on sexual relationship for 15 years, always when I thought he was at work.
Then she moved away but their contact continued via phone and text sex chats.
So I had absolutely NO idea about any of it until I became suspicious about phone activity and found her number all over his itemised bill.

You were all so helpful when I first posted about this - thank you again.

Fast forward 4 weeks. We have spent a LOT of time talking and talking and talking. He answers every question I put to him. And when I say I’ve got another one, he said it’s fine and he’ll do whatever I need him to do.

Who knows if it’s all 100% accurate bearing in mind he’s lied to me for 21 years. But considering the details he’s given me about everything, I can’t believe there’s much more that he’s kept back to be fair, as I’ve asked absolutely everything and every sordid detail.

He said he has never once considered the enormity of what he’s done. Never once thought about how wrong it was or how much it would hurt me and our kids.

He has cut off the OW - sent her final texts saying he won’t be contacting her ever again. Changed his phone number etc.

He’s cried, he’s never blamed me for anything.
Said it’s all his fault and that he’s always loved me and our kids, always found me attractive, loved our sex life and has never felt unhappy with me at all. Said he can’t complain about a thing therefore has absolutely no idea why he’s done this. It’s as if he saw no consequences at all?

He wants to get professional help to try and understand why he has behaved in this way.

He was diagnosed with ADHD years ago (after our youngest son was). I’ve been researching it and wondered whether this could account for some of it?
Most definitely not making excuses or giving him a get out clause at all, which I’ve told him.
But something he can maybe talk to a professional about because this is the part that is causing me a lot of issues.

He says there was nothing wrong with us, our marriage, our sex life, so why has he done this all these years? And with absolutely no guilt or remorse of thought of it all blowing up?

We are still trying to find IC (we’re in the UK so no point going to our GP as we’ll be waiting months to see anyone) so trying to find someone private. But would rather go to someone recommended but not an easy thing to ask for when hardly anyone knows what’s going on.

I still don’t think any therapist will be able to help me get past this 21 year affair/relationship and enable me to remain in this marriage. But when I see him answering all my questions, taking full responsibility and doing everything I’m asking, I feel that 4 weeks is way too early to make a final decision after being with someone for almost 30 years. Even if he has treated me so appallingly for most of that time.
Thanks for listening.

I wish I could be more positive...

Honestly – the only thing you share from him that is true is this:

He says there was nothing wrong with us, our marriage, our sex life,

That’s because YOU didn’t cheat, nor did your marriage cheat but rather HE cheated. We sometimes say they cheat despite you, not because of you.

I have to say – and sorry for the pessimism... – but I find it disturbing that he can have a close relationship with someone for TWENTYONEYEARS and then just walk away from it with so little sadness or regret. To me – an untrained normal person and not in any way certified to say this – it sounds like he has no morals. He doesn’t hesitate to chew up and spit out another person.

I think he needs IC a lot more than your marriage needs MC... I honestly don’t think MC can do anything more than maybe help you two remain together for some initial period for the dust to settle.

Thanks Bigger, I have said exactly the same thing to him. He has just callously cut her off just like that. Couple of final texts after all those years.
But I had told him I needed to see him act and show me it was over, so that’s what he did.
He said he’s never loved her, never wanted to be with her. Said they just got on.
In fact, there’s an awful lot he doesn’t know.

We’ve discussed the sex they had in great detail - I don’t know why but I’ve needed to know. And it seems that it was very mechanical, just sex. Mainly always a certain sexual position that seriously lacks intimacy and not one we’ve done nearly as often as they have.

I just keep answering questions as after every conversation we have, it leads to more questions.

I have ADHD and have NEVER cheated. I don’t lie, I don’t steal, I am honorable. So are most of us ADHD folks. I hate this da*n excuse. Here is what this is. A busy brain. It goes 159 mph sometimes. It gets forgetful sometimes. It does not say, "What about a little lying and cheating today for some fun."
He is a cheater. Period.

Thanks Cooley2here. I appreciate that, I guess I’m clutching at straws as none of this makes any sense.
And I sure as hell don’t want to see my son go down the same path either, as I have been concerned about his impulsiveness and lack of awareness for consequences for years.

I just wish my H could say why he’s done this. He didn’t fancy me anymore. Or he fancied the OW more. The sex was better with her. Or whatever it is that tells me why. But all he says is that he doesn’t know why when he’s always had everything he wants at home.

I hate what he’s done to our marriage and our family.

I am so sorry you are in this nightmare. Obviously the trauma you are facing will be very hard to overcome. I think the "double life" affair for decades presents its own set of challenges beyond its "an affair".

You should consider professional counseling for yourself. Not marriage counseling (it is too soon for that).

Be prepared for the anger phase of your healing process as well. You will get good and angry and the cheater needs to be prepared to take it.

I hope this helps you.

If you stay married make sure you have plenty of money to live on and then get on with your life. Take trips with friends and leave his sorry a** behind while you find some joy away from him. Let him cook, clean, do laundry, as the single man he has lived. You can occupy the same house and look after yourself. I HATE this kind of sniffly, whiney "I don’t know why I did it’ crap. He did it because he wanted to, the hell with you and his promises to you when he married you. I have steam coming out of my ears!

Thank you The1stWife, I am definitely looking for IC myself as I know I need some professional support dealing with going forwards.

Cooley2Here, thank you again! I absolutely love your directness and honesty. I gave up my career 25 years ago to be a stay at home Mum for 15 years.

I stayed at home raising our sons and running the house, washing, cooking, cleaning etc -all while he kept his own career, had every done for him and thoroughly enjoyed his second life!
Knowing I was at home doing everything on my own. He’s had the best of both worlds for way too long.

So what you’ve just said really resonates with me.

To put some positivity into your position, because frankly I’m just looking at it and wondering "what the h... next..."

Maybe tell your husband that you are in no rush. That your initial reaction is disbelief and that you have been swindled out of your life, and if you were to follow everything your morals, sense of justice and common sense told you then you would be at a solicitor right now going over your demands.

But there is too much at stake to let your initial reactions control your future.
Be open about your doubts about his mental health and morals if he can really misuse both you and her for all these years, and then dispose of her so easily. Not that you want him to console her, or that you want to help him in some grief, but it makes you wonder why he wants you. Are you disposable too? Is this simply because you iron his shirts better or make a better Shepards pie?
He can view the next six months as a holding period. If he can convince you that he’s making some improvements in his mental health, his behaviors and all that... then you might be open for MC with the goal of saving the marriage. Until then you yourself focus on IC and any MC you attend is more based at improving communications rather than marital rebuilding. At the end of that period you will be in a better place to decide why and if you might want to remain married to him.

In the Church Related thread, Washashore, who identified himself as a pastor, told Happyklown: " I’m concerned with the lies your wife told herself to make this ok for so long." I think this gets right to the heart of your concern. Your husband either is a sociopath and has no or little concern for the rights of others, or he has found a way to compartmentalize and justify what he knows is wrong. If he actually has no conscience, you need to leave him. There is no cure for that. If he told himself lies to make this ok, he needs to work this out with a good therapist.

Bigger, thank you. You’ve given me a lot to think about there. He tells me it is easy to cut her out of her life because he’s never loved her. He said he loves me and is trying to show me that he’s listening to me and wants our marriage to work.
All I do know is that I’m changing every few days. Some days I know the marriage is over and others I feel I am too up and down to make such a decision. So I know I need more time so that my emotions balance out. And I need IC for that to happen.

NotSoGreatExpectations, I don’t know what he is or who he is anymore. But he has always been a stickler for the rules. Hates injustice. Verbally criticises those who have no manners, are rude. Doesn’t like people who mistreat others. And has bad mouthed other people we know in the past who have cheated!! It’s as if he has done what he’s done but doesn’t then look at himself and see the bad in what he’s done. It’s just crazy. He said he knows he needs professional help and is currently making enquiries about where best to go, as he’s been advised he needs CBT to look at his behaviours.

Your husband….wait a minute. I can’t call him all the names I want to. But I am figuratively over here jumping up and down having an adult fit.
Please read Lying by Jonathan Wallace in the Ethical Spectacle. You have been lied to by omission your entire marriage.
I wish I could hug you. This makes me so sad for you. Everyone who finds their lives were lies have to recalibrate reality. The longer the lying the longer the time it takes to find solid ground.

He needs to find out his whys. There's a really good post in the Wayward forum by DaddyDom that is really good. I just bumped it so it's at the top of the forum, or you can find it here:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums/?tid=617173

He's got a lot of work to do. Don't try to understand any lame excuses that he gives you because they probably won't make sense. How can you use logic on something that's illogical? My XWH did it because he wanted to and I'm sure he told himself that he deserved to do it.

Sorry that you're here.

I am so sorry you are going through this. My husband was faithful for ten years and then had multiple one night stands over the next ten years of our marriage. We also had a good marriage and he says he always loved me and was never unhappy. You are still very early in the process of shock and denial. Get help and support for yourself. I am almost three years from d day and not sure I will stay in the marriage but he is very remorseful and has been doing everything possible to keep the relationship. I still struggle almost every day but I am getting stronger and finding joy in friends and hobbies outside of my marriage.
Our WH are very similar. Mine also says he doesn’t know why really, just says he liked the validation. I really think it comes down to low empathy, slippery morals, with the ability to compartmentalize and be a cake eater. I have agonized over why my WH did this and there is ultimately no reason. He is selfish and he wanted to. I do think my husband loved me in the way that he could, however I find that way very disordered.
He has done a lot of therapy and I see a big change In him. He is much more focused on others and sees how his entitled mindset was so destructive. there’s a level of damage done by long term cheating. You know that this person has made a thousand deceitful choices. It was not just a snap shot in time or in the relationship. My biggest piece of advice is to accept that you will be unsure and will go back and forth possibly for years. Not everyone does but I have. Be patient with yourself and do everything you can to care for yourself. Big hugs to you.

Cooley2here, thank you for the read recommendation. I will definitely look at that. And thank you for your continued support.

Leafields, thank you, I have just read that thread and it is very interesting. I also think it’ll give my H some things to think about. He most definitely needs to think about his whys because his actions aren’t the man I know. So he’s clearly someone else.

Saltishealing, our H’s sound very similar. I admire you for staying and trying to reconcile. I’m not sure I can waste too much time trying to repair our marriage when he’s lied and cheated for 21 years.
I feel I have already wasted too much of my life on someone who has treated me so appallingly. Walking away from a 28 year relationship/marriage isn’t something I can do lightly (which is probably why I haven’t thrown him out yet) but I have to remember that for 3/4 of our whole relationship he has had "Her" in his life too.
I think it’s too much to forgive. I deserve much better and I need to work on my emotional state and that of my sons I think.

He is someone else. He masked himself as a monogamous spouse while giving time and effort to his affair partner.

The legitimate’ him is not the guy you thought you built your life with. Over time you are going to reorder memories with the facts that are exposed. And that is part of the roller coaster we talk about, anger, pain, sadness… hope, etc..

You don’t know all of him. Which means you don’t know if this selfish entitled man is going to be able to reconcile. His lifetime habit is to have a wife and a side piece. Can he grapple with losing his affair partner, his individual work and working on the marriage? Only time will tell.

If you want to give him time to start that work, try to focus on you. Find a good IC and work through your trauma.

Don’t be his help mate in healing, reconciliation task master or the finder of neurological diagnosis that can mitigate his responsibility.

He will or he wont commit to the process. Just like the long term affair wasn’t one decision or mistake, so is reconciliation. It is a long haul, you’ll make your own path out of infidelity.

And even if he is a blue ribbon reconciler.. it’s okay if it’s not enough for you. After he usurped your agency for decades, you have it now. Use it however best to put you on the path to a better life. With him or without.

It’s still very new and the wounds are fresh. You are taking time and working it out the best you can. There is no shortcut, you are already on your path to healing, taking steps positive and that is amazing!!

At 4 weeks I still thought if I took responsibility for my H’s cheating, that meant a change in MY behavior and love would solve it all!, Umm.. no. That did not work. The good people at SI got me straight in the end.

Sending you virtual hugs!

Friend – as is very common with us betrayed spouses we aren’t really sure what to do. There is no denying that what you share about your husbands actions and not least his reactions is disturbing. It’s also understandable that you might have second thoughts about leaving what you thought was a good marriage. Maybe it is OK for you to give yourself some time to let what happened sink in, to self-heal AND to reevaluate the man you are married to, because frankly this revelation has probably totally disrupted your view on him.

I do however want to make one very important suggestion:
I don’t like using the term sociopath, but the way he seems to dismiss what was important to him for 21 years is disturbing. It makes me worry that he could do something comparable to you...
I also think that it doesn’t have to be that serious. It could be that he thought the second life was contained and in control, and that he really was distancing himself from it. Could be more like an addiction, or a moral restriction rather than some general controlling condition like being a sociopath.
I think you could use some time to self-heal and take stock...

HOWEVER – and this is the suggestion – IF he can this easily dispose of his "second wife" of 21 years... can he do the same to you? Would he be planning his escape, or placing boulders in your path?
Take time to create a comprehensive financial portfolio of your marriage and life. You want to be clear on what you both own and owe. This ranges from assets such as the family home, vehicles, pensions, savings... Any leans on your house or vehicles? Any credit-cards to either of your names you don’t know of? Is he being paid by the books and is that reflected in bank-accounts, or does he get (partial) payment off the books (as is common with tradesmen that get paid under the table). Chances are that tax-returns will give you a pretty clear picture.
Then monitor the situation. If you were to tell him that you need 6 months of a holding-pattern for mutual self-healing before YOU decide if you want to commit to the marriage, then you do not want to see new credit-cards, a lean on your assets, withdrawals, a decrease in pay... basically anything indicating he’s preparing for the end of the marriage.

IMHO if he does nothing untowardly that would count heavily in his favor in any decision you might reach. It would indicate potential healing.

My thoughts -

You described him as a rule follower, and that he criticized others for breaking rules. Yet he had this affair for years.

I’m wondering if his sudden distancing of her is his way of blaming HER for his affair and actions, and his rapid dismissal of her is his mental way of pointing his finger at her. After all, she broke the rules and had an affair with a married man.

I’m also concerned that he is a very adept liar. So while he says he has cut her off, my trust level on that would be very low. The reason for this would be that they have a very long history together, and SHE would need time to get through the cessation of the relationship. Being completely ghosted at once, without any warning, would result in 1,000 questions on her side. I cannot imagine her not contacting him repeatedly for weeks to try to understand what happened. I’m not "sympathetic" to her, but realistic in understanding human behavior here. After 21 years, she would definitely have questions. She would definitely be pissed, hurt, and confused, and likely trying to do damage control at her end as well. I also cannot imagine he hasn’t attempted some level of damage control himself, by trying to get their stories aligned. Liars do this.

The other concern I have is that she is unlikely the only affair partner over the years. It seems implausible to me that he was this comfortable and confident for this long, that he never risked it a second time with anyone else. It wouldn’t shock me.

As for the answers to your "why"?

The sexually illicit, the adventure, a sense of autonomy, role playing a different life, love, sexual desire, lack of self-control, need for validation, nostalgia, thrill seeking, fear of loss of sexual attractiveness, infatuation….there are a million "whys".

But notice in that list, not one of them has anything to do with you.

It will take a very long time before the real truth comes out. Meanwhile, take care of yourself and know that when he talks he is still protecting himself right now. Waywards do that.

Redrock, thank you. I agree, he is sadly not the man I thought he was and who I’ve spent the last 28 years of my life with. I am most definitely putting myself first and making sure I get the IC that I need.

Bigger, thank you, you’ve given me a lot to think about. I do feel I need time to get myself some IC and to get my head around all of this. I honestly don’t think we have a future as this is just too big. So there are a lot of things to consider and a lot of ducks to line up. But I know I have time and can give myself some space at the moment.

5decades, thank you, the Whys are certainly the big thing for me at the moment.
He said he has absolutely no idea why he’s done this when he has everything and more at home.
He is taking full responsibility (which is the very least he can do).
I have been in contact with the AP and she is also taking responsibility as well. Told me that although she had fallen for him, she always knew that he loved me and that he would never leave me. And that she wants us to save our marriage.
It’s like something out of a film isn’t it, not really life.
My WH wants us both to have separate IC and he wants to find out why he has done this and how he could have lived 2 separate lives for so long. Said he has known it was wrong but has separated the two so easily and without any guilt.
That is for him to do and find out. I need to work on how I am feeling and how I move on from this.

Thank you everyone again.

I had a fried who was a classic grandiose narcissist. He literally checked all the boxes, and I even asked him questions to which he responded in a classic narcissistic way. It was just the way he was wired. Now, I'm not saying your WH falls in the cluster B category, but his behaviours are troubling to say the least.

The one thing I want to add is this. When I would confront my friend about his improper behaviours, he would seem remorseful, but it wasn't until I understood his personality that I was able to decode his behaviours. What appeared to me, a nuero-typical, as remorse, was discomfort on his part as my anger was affecting the quality of his life. He needed me back in my lane so he could be happy. He really didn't care about my feelings as he could not feel empathy, only feign it.

The next thing is that since he could not read social cues, he would listen to my grievance very carefully and modify his behaviour. I realized that he was not changing but adding a patch code to his basic operating system in order to avoid discomfort or inconvenience if the same situation presented itself again. The funny thing, there was never any transference of understand to other similar situations. Each was seen as a unique and discreet event.

It was then that I realized he was not an authentic person, in the sense of typical people. Once I did this, I chose to end our relationship as it didn't add to my life, only detract from it.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 10:00 PM, Thursday, December 12th]