SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DDay 2/12/2024

B - female 55 years old
W - male 62 years old
Together since 9/2010
Living together since 8/2013
Engaged 12/2016

Found a private email address used for sites such as Seeking Arrangement and Sugar Daddy Meet.

Has been conversing and meeting with women (mid 20’s) since approx early 2016 possibly 2015. Drinks, dinner, conversation. No gifts, no long term relationships or arrangements that he has admitted to or that my digging has dug up. He is not overly sexual and has said everything was non sexual and I do believe that to be the case. I do suspect he might have had someone join him on a business trip or 2 (back in 2018) as a companion.

There has been ZERO behavior since DDay. He does show remorse and takes accountability but is extremely reluctant and refuses to have more transparency and disclosure regarding the frequency, money spent, and any other details to provide reassurance.

He is a TRUE dismissive avoidant. - seeks validation, avoids intimate conversations, can be transactional with people. He has a tendency to throw money at problems and does have the money to do that.
I lean more anxious.

He wants to work towards reconciliation but is still holding on to secrets. I would like to also stay together but feel as if more disclosure is needed.

He believes exposure will lead to more questions from me and that I will always believe the worst even if that isn’t the case.
I believe the secrets will allow me to free myself and move forward. I also believe I will know when he is not lying anymore. We are at an impasse in our personal beliefs.

I’m looking for insight into this specific type of activity and insight as to how to move towards full disclosure.

Please no negative comments as I do still love him and think he is a good person who did a lot of bad things.

Welcome to SI and sorry that you're joining us. First, I'd like to refer you to the posts pinned to the top of the page, as well as those with bull's eye icons. They have some very good information. Second, the Healing Library is full of great information, too. I've bumped the ones with bull's eye icons so they should be near the top of the page.

If he's interested in R (reconciliation), then please have him read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. It's a little over 100 pages, but is nicely spaced and doesn't take long to read. He needs IC (individual counseling) to work on his why's and to become a safe partner. If he took somebody on a business trip or two, it's doubtful that nothing physical happened. If he has, then he needs to be tested for STDs/STIs, as do you.

For you, IC with a betrayal trauma specialist can be helpful. Bonus points if they also do infidelity trauma. Don't do CC (couples counseling) until you have healed. A CC is more for working on the relationship and infidelity is often treated under the unmet needs fallacy. The CC will shift some of the blame to you. The decision to cheat is 100% his choice.

extremely reluctant and refuses to have more transparency and disclosure regarding the frequency, money spent, and any other details to provide reassurance.

This is not showing remorse and accountability. Maybe shame, but he's not giving you information that you may need to heal. How can you heal or forgive if you don't know what you're forgiving? If he has cheated repeatedly, then he is a serial cheater and they are notoriously bad at sticking to the work to become a safe partner. I'm not saying that it can't be done, because we have some really great reformed waywards on the site. They'll be the first to tell you that it's a lot of hard work.

how to move towards full disclosure

Ask for a written timeline with dates, feelings, money spent, details as to what they did like dinner & movie, hotel, etc. Give a deadline for when you would like to have it completed, or he may string you along forever.

Good luck and keep posting.

I am so saddened to read this.

Obviously he needs validation and ego boosts from much younger women who tell him what he wants to hear.

Sadly some people just cannot tell when they are being used.

What is your plan?

Old.timer here and known for being a bit blunt. So take it or leave it but don't take it personally as I calm it as I see it.

1. Red Flag #1 you've been engaged for 8 years. That's not normal. When. A commitment is made especially in adults over 30 it's pretty common for marriage to follow in short order. This alone tells me there are issues with commitment.

2. Despite warnings and things that seem not normal you have stayed. You need to exam this for yourself. The lost cause fallacy often keeps people in relationships that are comfortable but "not the real thing" or "best offer" situations. NEVER EVER settle because the clock is ticking, or he's a good guy if only.

3. He has at minimum chatted with others outside your relationship. More likely given his reluctance for truth done much more. What is stopping you from demanding more, including full STD testing before you share yourself again, and the full truth. Please please please do not allow fear of being alone or ending a failed relationship stop you from asking what any sane person would expect/demand of their partner.

It's scary but I bet if you sit down and consider the amount of times he has been less than truthful it would be clear to you the quality of individual you have.
DO NOT LET FEAR OF BEING ALONE STOP YOU FROM DEMANDING THE honesty, love, respect, and juju every relationship deserves.

So sorry you're here. But glad you found SI. Most folks responding on SI don't necessarily approach situations in a "negative" manner, but most posters(in my experience) feel an honest response, from the heart, is in OP's best interest. As I also believe. Alli, it's difficult to respond positively about the rug-sweeping, minimization and stone-walling you're experiencing. 10 months is a long time to put up with secret keeping! My heart goes out to you. Must be particularly horrible to struggle with this nightmare during the holiday season.

I'm with Tushnurse on this one. Big red flag that jumped out to me as well - engaged for 8 years? After a 6 year relationship? There's no requirement monogamously minded folks get married, but as Tushnurse sagely observed, an engagement is usually an agreement that leads to marriage..........so something doesn't fit. The sunk costs fallacy is definitely something to pay attention to. Not every relationship is worth salvaging..... Yes, 14 years is a long time to emotionally invest in a relationship, in a partner. Yes, you love him and hope to reconcile. BUT it takes TWO 100% COMMITTED partners to recreate a relationship - to build a new partnership on foundations of transparency, equity, reciprocity and healing. His continuous lying (lies of omission are still lies) and insistence that you just get over it and move on already, his apparent inability to make a commitment ---- IMO doesn't bode well for his ability to honestly engage in healing and rebuilding. Anything is possible - functional humans who are committed to positive change and willing to work hard at it can change. Wouldn't be posting here if I didn't believe in positive change....certainly wouldn't have reconciled with my betrayer without hope! But reconciliation is HARD work. What is he doing to heal you - to heal the relationship? Is he really committed? Besides words (words are easy), what ACTIONS is he taking to become a better human being?

Alli, please protect yourself. How are YOU taking care of yourself? The only thing within your control is YOU - you can't control the outcome when it comes to reforming a repeat offender. He has to want to change for himself - to remediate his character weaknesses so the nightmare of infidelity doesn't happen again. You certainly can't nice him into changing his entitled, self-serving view of the world!

Of course you want to know everything and want him to willingly disclose ALL the truth. IMO, in the scheme of things what went on with those gals isn't the main concern. He's a transactional individual who needs "validation" - someone who's willing to pay for companionship cough-cough (ego stroking) - willing to hook-up with Sugar Babies to fill his self-esteem tank. Sugar Babies are a type of sex trade, so hopefully he's honestly calling it what it is. Yes, drinks, dinners and trips are a form of PAYMENT. And, since he's an adult with a functioning libido with no qualms about engaging in sex trade, it's probable he paid $$ for more than that. A gal in sex trade looking on-line for an "arrangement" or a "sugar daddy" is looking for $$$. He knows this. He's okay with it. So, in his world-view women are a commodity to be bought and sold for his ego fortification.

And, he's willing to lie to you, and he kept a whole secret life hidden from you. Even after being outed, he insists upon keeping secrets. Secret keeping after infidelity feels like a power play. Keeping the truth from you protects HIM - which appears to be his priority. Seems like he also felt entitled to whatever happened during that 8 year double life. 8 years of lying indicates this is his MO. It's how he rolls. He's gonna have to WORK hard and long to change 8 years of ingrained choices. Could take years. So, if he's serious about reconciliation, an important first step is for him to start digging deep to figure out why he does what he does, why he feels entitled to treat people (including you) the way he does. Is he open to individual counseling? He's got a lot of hard work to do......and if he's serious about reconciliation IMO part of that work should be willingly telling the truth about everything you want to know.

ETA:

You've been in this relationship a long time. Taking care of yourself must include financial self-care. Throwing money at his problems and buying sugar babies are concerning behaviors.

Do you share finances? Even if you're not married, depending upon jurisdiction, you could meet the criteria of "common law" partner. If you're financially enmeshed or dependent in any way, could be worth discussing the situation with a lawyer or two just to understand your rights. Doesn't mean you have to separate. Knowledge is power, and doing what's needed to protect yourself financially could help to gain some equilibrium.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 11:48 PM, Monday, December 23rd]

Lots of good posts above.

He is a TRUE dismissive avoidant. - seeks validation, avoids intimate conversations, can be transactional with people.

And is being very transactional with you. I don’t understand why you are negotiating on the issue of disclosure.

Please read all the posts for newbies in JFO, especially the 180. It is your friend. He is not a safe partner, at least currently. Keep safe. X

[This message edited by Edie at 10:49 AM, Monday, December 23rd]