SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is my first post. I've been on the site for some time, and recently I decided to create my account and start interacting. SI has been very useful for me, its library is really amazing. Reading several posts and realizing that I'm not alone in this (unfortunately) was a big help.

Fantasy VS Reality

Many times we confuse fantasy with reality, and of course in Affair it would be no different.

For context:
I’m 30 years old and my xWW is 34. We were together for 12 years, we don’t have children (thank God). I caught her cheating on me.

We tried a false R that lasted 2 months. I couldn’t deal with her affair fog (for a long time I believed it wasn’t limerence or affair fog). Seeing her suffer and desire AP, breaking NC several times, destroyed and completely undermined what I felt for her.

Of course, as soon as I asked for the separation she ran straight into AP’s arms. That completely sealed our relationship for me. All of this happened 10 months ago, we barely spoke after that.

Well, about 1 month ago, to the surprise of exactly 0 people, all of that ended. Now AP is a POS, abusive and toxic. Magically I became the love of her life again (I definitely don’t believe that).

It doesn’t make sense in my head: if she loved me all this time, why trade 12 years for a temporary A?

For me this is where "Fantasy VS Reality" comes in. I’ve read and reread many cases and many of them have patterns:
BP becomes the villain, WS the victim, and AP the heroic savior.

WS creates false narratives or exaggerates small things to justify their transgressions. Of course there are exceptions: some affairs are purely physical, others emotional, others are about escape, and so on.

AP says the right things at the right time. Everything is magical. The butterflies in the stomach (those damn butterflies in the stomach…). The sex is magical, compliments, floods of compliments.

But there is no real life together.

They don’t pay bills together, they don’t raise children together, they don’t live together!!! They simply separate the good parts of a marriage and leave the "bad parts" for the BP.

I met my xWW when I was 17 years old. She suffered from anxiety, I dealt with it when I didn’t even know what it was. Back then people barely talked about it.

When her father died, I was there.
When her family turned their backs on her, I was there.
When she had suspicions of depression, I was there.
When she wanted to start new hobbies, I was there.
When she wanted to open her own business, I was there.
Financially, physically.
When she needed surgery, I was there.

I was there for her on many occasions.

She herself admitted that she had no reason to cheat on me. That our marriage was good. That I was a healthy and safe partner. We were preparing to have our first child and BOOM…

SHE DECIDED THAT STABBING ME IN THE BACK AND DESTROYING MY HEART was acceptable.

Please don’t misunderstand me. I believe that if you are unhappy in a relationship, if you no longer love your partner, you absolutely should separate and look for happiness.

I WOULD HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

And she knew that.

But no… she needed to deceive me, humiliate me and hurt me.

There is no love in that.

Browsing another forum, I came across an old case. A WW cheated on BP with their church pastor. She was deeply in the affair fog.

A comment directed at BP caught my attention (I might be paraphrasing):

"... let her go, reality will hit her (They had 3 kids and AP had 4 or 5 if I remember correctly), all underage. What does she think is going to happen? They’re going to move into a new house with 7/8 kids involved? Are they going to have sex all over the house like rabbits? That’s impossible with young children.

Not to mention they will face the anger and hatred of the children blaming them for the destruction of their families. On top of that there will be the social stigma falling on them.

This relationship definitely won’t survive.

They were only able to have an affair because their spouses were supporting them at home, dealing with duties and children!!!..."

And this is where reality hits. Most of the time, affairs are fantasies that collapse when they face reality.

Sorry, I’m just venting and I found this topic interesting.

Please BP and WS, feel free to comment or share your personal experiences about fantasy vs reality. I would love to read them.

Thank you very much in advance, and please excuse me if I’m breaking any rules or posting this in the wrong place.

Feel free to move it.

English is not my first language, so please excuse any spelling mistakes.

This is similar to my story with my wife.

Yes we married after, biggest mistake of my life.

My gut instinct suggestion is: tell her this "Fuck off honey, you are dead to me. Worse, you do not exist in my life anymore, I will eradicate every memory of you from my mind. I appreciate you to disappear forever with your pig, so I do not have to waste a second in someone as worthless as you are. Thank you, to never again."

And just forget she ever existed, because she is not worthy.
Period.

Because she is NOT worthy of you.
A good person who does not love you anymore, would leave you then seek someone else after. When someone does it before.... they never loved you or can love anyone, not even themselves.

They are just using you or others to soothe their inside void.

But I understand what you feel.

She is out of your life, best to keep it that way.
Although if you really feel still the need to see her, and not cutting her off outright, read about the 180. Implement it. Either she will realize how much she fucked up and put the work to change and heal herself (while you heal) or not, so you can keep your boundaries and she lives outside those, never again in your world.

She is in for a life of total misery until she lives if she cannot fix herself. You dodged a bullet, do not do my mistake, do not take her back.

If feelings are too strong, keep boundaries up, watch behaviors and work (therapy etc) not word, heal yourself first, you will probably end up opening your eyes and see that she is not worthy of you after all, maybe she never was.

And that is fine.

I think this is true in most instances, and this is why we generally encourage exposing an affair.
I have consistently suggested that if you catch your partner in an affair you simply tell them that they are free to continue with the affair, but not as your spouse. That you tell them that it would have been in better taste had they ended the relationship with you before starting the next, but since they have already started then fine – continue. But YOU are getting out of infidelity.
I then suggest you talk openly about the affair, mention OP name, let friends and family know that the reason you and spouse are divorcing is because spouse values his/her relationship with AP more.
I also suggest you remove all obstacles. No -the kids will be fine if we work at being good amicable coparents. Yes – the finances will be tight, but we will survive (individually). Basically leave them no excuse or reason for wanting to remain married other than exactly that: THEY WANT TO BE MARRIED.

My experience indicates that when you do this (or some form of this) the REALITY of the fantasy being possible disappears fast.
When the OM realizes that his "princess" and "soulmate" is available full time, at the cost of his family, his wife, half his marital assets… as a rule they dump their AP and focus on their marriage.
When the WW realizes that the OM is bringing his two kids every other week, that she wont get the house, the cars, the lifestyle… It’s a big downer on the fantasy.

Frankly – I also think that if you were to allow an affair to carry on. Maybe even openly, as in asking your wife "are you going to be with Mike tonight, or are you really doing overtime at work? Just make sure you use protection (I got you some on the counter) and shower when you come home…" that affair would end within 6-8 months due to the lack of fantasy and therefore the futility. After all – they have all the opportunity to take this further, but it’s limited to a quick secretive dinner and a roll in bed.

Even if the affair ends in divorce and the AP move in together, then I think you are 100% correct that once they realize the other person farts at night and is sometimes moody, and that utilities have to be paid ahead of lobsters and gold, the relationship stalls.

Having said all that…
One of our best couple-friends met while married to other people, had an affair, divorced and have now been married for over 35 years. So I guess some relationships work.

Having said all that…
One of our best couple-friends met while married to other people, had an affair, divorced and have now been married for over 35 years. So I guess some relationships work.

Yes it is not impossible, simply statistically it is a lottery.

When you allow yourself to cheat, you have deep character flaws. Make them a pair.
Not impossible it will work, true love no more betrayals, maturity..... but I rather take my chances with the lottery ticket.

BackfromtheStorm, thank you for your response. I don't intend to get back together with her. I'm not R's enemy, but I know myself and I know I'll never get over this, so it's better to leave things as they are, especially now that I know some details of the case and, my God, she's very deceitful. It seems like I've been with a completely different person for these past 12 years. At the moment, I'm emotionally okay with it.

Bigger, thank you, I only shared this with our relatives, parents and siblings, and very few friends.

I also believe that in the case of children, getting divorced is more beneficial than maintaining a sad marriage; surely the children will absorb the bad atmosphere of the relationship.

In my family, we have an uncle who had a child out of wedlock and was later dumped by his wife, and ended up marrying AP. I just don't know if they are in a happy marriage, since they break up and get back together at least 15 times.

My stbx never had a fantasy life with his LTA AP. She was also married with kids (like us), and they had to sneak around and have sex in the back of their cars. There was nothing great about that part, but she made him feel strong and competent, and he made her feel seen, so they became addicted to the stolen moments. Both were worried about what divorce would do to their lives, so they just carried on in secret for 2.5 years. When I asked stbx what his plan for the future was with her, he didn't have an answer. He claimed they "tried to end it a dozen times" but couldn't last more than a week without contact.

I also went through false R for 2-3 months, but unlike you, I kept trying R for another 2 years. It was hard to walk away from 30 years together and a kid, house, pets, shared friends, etc., but as you said, seeing his depression after ending things, the struggles in the bedroom with me, the trickle truth and lies for another year, and his selfishness in other areas of life wore down my feelings for him. In the end, he didn't want to divorce, but I knew I had to.

I too know of a couple who have stayed together for 16 years after initially having an affair with each other (both were married, and the man's wife was pregnant at the time). The two women used to be my friends, but I had to cut off the cheater. I couldn't stay friends with her after what she did. The BS and I were pregnant around the same time, so I stayed friends with her, and we're still close.

[This message edited by NoThanksForTheMemories at 7:07 PM, Monday, March 16th]

As they say, sometimes the aftermath of the DD, TT, affair fog, NC break, lies and more lies, are worse than the A itself.

While I understand that your theory and experience hold true for many people and circumstances, I wouldn't hold onto it too tightly.

As far as I’m aware, my ex is still with my former best friend. They have a child together now, and they must be reaching the point where they’ve been together as long as we ever were. My ex had a consistent track record of "monkey branching," so either she’s finally changed her patterns, the child has anchored the relationship, or she’s simply waiting for the next branch. Honestly? Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I’m not sure what to make of this, but my fiancée mentioned just this week that my ex appeared as a recommended friend on Instagram. Apparently, that often implies she’s been viewing my fiancée's profile. Why on earth she would feel the need to do that after all this time is beyond me.

Even with my life being in a good place now, the hardest part to stomach is the lack of justice. It’s likely the reason these thoughts still linger. While they did lose their social circle and had to move to a rougher part of town to escape the shame of what they did, it never felt like enough of a consequence.

I find myself struggling with this lack of cosmic justice in other areas of life, too. Just the other day, I ran into some old high school acquaintances. They’re still heavy drinkers and drug users, yet because they come from money, they all live in beautiful neighborhoods on their parents' dime. It stung a little, considering the sheer amount of hard work I’ve had to put in just to afford my own place—a place I’ll likely have to leave anyway if I want to start a family.

The realization that the world isn't inherently fair is one of the hardest pills to swallow. We like to tell ourselves that "fantasy vs. reality" will eventually catch up to people who do us wrong, but that doesn't always stack up. Sometimes the "bad guys" win, or at least they don't lose as badly as we think they should. It’s a bitter fact of life, but once you accept that justice isn't guaranteed, you stop waiting for it and finally start moving on for yourself.

I'm glad you are getting towards happy and not contemplating taking her back. Though some in the forum won't like to hear it, whilst cosmic justice isn't always enacted, reconciliation is the surest fire way to let the bad guys win. Imagine it now... 'Oh, you're little failed experiment to find someone better than me failed, I guess I'll be your back up and let you return to your cosey life with me' - urrrrrrg, I'd rather feed my genitals through a meat grinder... and I really don't want to do that. Don't even think the sausage would be good.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 12:45 PM, Tuesday, March 17th]

I’m not sure what to make of this, but my fiancée mentioned just this week that my ex appeared as a recommended friend on Instagram. Apparently, that often implies she’s been viewing my fiancée's profile. Why on earth she would feel the need to do that after all this time is beyond me.

Accept you never fully know what goes inside other's head, even though you might have some good intuition.

Cheater do usually come back, when is a factor, but it does always catch up.
Not because they care about you, they do not, because they care of the feeling they once had with you.

When you look into why cheaters union tend to fail a lot, it is because is 2 people with fundamental character flaws trying to mimic something, a relationship, that they are not mature enough to nurture.

They tend to end up in cheating to each other, knowing and maybe sometimes faking normalcy to keep the appearances up, but the character flaw does not go away by rugsweeping.
But you know, while being the betrayer is exciting and awesome, wearing the BS shoes is horrible, even for a cheater.

So often they blow up. I can't remember the study, but those couples who survive being born from union WS/AP are a fraction of 1%, and from those you have to take off those who would split due to partner's infidelity, but they can't financially or for other reasons.

Not much happiness down that lane. Maybe a nice instagram cover, behind the scenes it is usually a shitshow.

Accept you never fully know what goes inside other's head, even though you might have some good intuition.

Oh don't worry, I will not be dwelling on that. Just found it odd.

So often they blow up. I can't remember the study, but those couples who survive being born from union WS/AP are a fraction of 1%, and from those you have to take off those who would split due to partner's infidelity, but they can't financially or for other reasons.

Perhaps these stats are true, perhaps they are not.

I’ve personal knowledge of three couples who started as affairs and went on to have long, successful relationships.

My uncle’s first wife ran off with his best friend, moved cities, and completely cut off his access to their child. Many years later, his son finally reached out to reconcile, only to die tragically just a few years after they reunited. The Ex-wife and friend were still together and even all those years later were pressuring their now 40+ year old son to not reach out. Luckily he ignored them.

In another case, my fiancée’s aunt left her husband for her boss. They lived a long, happy life together; she’s a widow now, but she still maintains it was the correct choice for her.

Then, of course, there is my own personal example that I shared previously.

Perhaps this is just my specific experience and not representative of broader statistics, but I’d wager the "one percent" success rate often cited is far too low. It hurts to hear, but it brings me back to my previous point: sometimes the bad guys win.

Nazis lived long, wealthy lives in Argentina. Serial killers evade justice. Cheaters win.

We shouldn't evade this reality. We simply have to face it. Sometimes life is simply unjust.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 6:29 PM, Tuesday, March 17th]

Hey OP. Sorry you are here. Yeah, as others have posted, the injustice of it is a tough pill to swallow, but once you process that, it gets better.

Young, no kids, I'd recommend running as fast as you can. IMHO, I don't think you have anything to work with here. Two books I'd recommend that get mentioned on this sight on occasion are "Cheating in a Nutshell" & "Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life". I found the former to be very helpful in putting words to how I felt. It sort of gave me permission to process things in the way I did. You see, I tried R for 6 months. I say I and not we, because my WW didn't really show up for the work. During that time, I read, journaled, did therapy... everything I could. My WW just stopped cheating (presumably) and figured that was enough. When thev6 month mark hit, I reassessed my situation and came to the conclusion that she was incapable of growth or change, so unless I was okay with "this is as good as it will ever get", I had to pull the plug.

It's funny. I think being a BS and experiencing the trauma of infidelity makes one a little selfish. I put myself first and only allow high-quality people into my life. Do me dirty and you become persona non gratis. Not because I can't forgive, just that they no longer make the cut.

I'm 7+ years post Ddays, so im pretty much as healed as I can be... a little scarred but still standing. I don't think I'll ever get back to "happy-happy, joy-joy" again, but I've certainly hit contentment. I don't want to make this post about me; I just want to tell you the there is hope. Do the work, talk, journal, and allow the feelings you may not even know you have to come to the surface. Process everthing and the process them again. Your journey will be long and nonlinear, but you will heal and come out of the end of this.

raik0 - I believe people believe what they WANT TO BELIEVE. They tell themselves the stories they WANT TO TELL THEMSELVES at that point. So she told herself all these stories about the AP because that's what she wanted to believe at that time, for whatever reason. She's the only one who COULD know that and if she doesn't, it's because she doesn't want to look at it. IT'S HER STORY, THE ONE SHE WANTED TO BELIEVE. And for some reason, because I don't believe in affair fogs and limerence and bullshit like that, enough reality intruded to disrupt her story, the story she wanted to believe. Maybe he snores, or eats crackers in bed, or she caught HIM in lies, or whatever but something disrupted her fantasy story, put a crack in it, and the crack spread, like they tend to. So now she sees the reality, not the story....so she's shifted the story back to you. Well....your shared reality over years suits her better than the story she made up about him, but she's still someone who wanted to make up this story about this random guy. Instead of the reality about you. I would not take her back, she can go make up some other story about some other asshole. I hope you'll find someone else who'll just be happy with the reality of you. Reality is enough.

I think people have affairs because they are tempted for whatever reason and they can't resist temptation so they do it and then they make up all these stories. As I say, I don't believe in affair fogs or limerence or bullshit like this because those are not real things, they're just the state of mind cheaters talk themselves into to make their affairs seem "special" and destined so they don't have to take responsibility for them because....this thing is bigger than both of us! I really would like people to LOVE THEMSELVES MORE and love their spouses a lot less because I think that would make people much happier in general. You have to be able to look at your cheating spouse and be able to say....ya know...maybe he or she is just an asshole. Because that often IS the answer. Maybe they weren't always, maybe it's latent assholeism, but it's a much healthier frame of mind than pining over someone who treats you bad.

You mentioned something raik0 that set off my radar and it's the prospect of having a child. You were discussing having a child and then she cheated. I think a lot of cheating comes up around pregnancy and having a child because that's the dividing line to many people, psychically, between being kids themselves and becoming permanent adults with permanent responsibilities. This is often where people cheat, during pregnancies, the first kid, talking about having kids, as you were, and I think you have someone who is not ready for that in maturity and may never be ready for it, whether she stumbles into parenthood or not. Instead she wanted to pursue the magic fairy tale - as you say, where there are no problems or duties or smelly diapers or late nights, or sickness, etc. I think it was the....threat.....of having a child that triggered the immaturity that launched her into the fairy tale of an affair. This was not the right person for you to settle down with and she probably never would be and I think you are wise not to take her back. Her problem has not even been addressed, much less resolved. When we have kids - or sickness in ourselves, which is another time when people often cheat....you just have to be adult enough to realize that life sometimes, even often, sucks, and you have to value reality more than the fairy tale. Or make up your own heroic story instead of the Romeo and Juliet stuff. I always hated Romeo and Juliet, btw, I think they ended up exactly as I would expect they would.

Dr. Sooters......I think cheaters are mainly assholes. People can define it as they wish. But assholes are probably better off with other assholes, they can make it work because....they ain't much. They ain't much, they don't expect much, how can they, and they don't get much....and that's what they deserve. Cheaters deserve other cheaters because they are low value people with low values. And I am almost totally against recon even though I know it's often the practical decision which I understand, it was the practical decision for me. But I still think he's an asshole, I'm just stuck financially. I AM a better catch than he is, and I think I always was. Sometimes that happens. If people don't have practical reasons like finance or health, or maybe kids, and just realized - my cheating spouse is an asshole and I deserve better, and I AM better....than they'd handle the whole situation better. Don't pine over something broken that isn't worthy of you. People need to elevate how they regard themselves, and lower how they regard their cheating spouses, especially in this kind of situation. Thank God, I have a big ego.

I will offer the opposite.

Affairs are hard to understand the dynamics of until you have one. They aren’t conducted in the same emotional climate as a new relationship.

When you have two emotionally unavailable people who knowingly cross boundaries for whatever reason, whether it be temptation, or in my experience full out escapism motivated by an existential crisis, in which my drug of choice was to feel younger, sexier, and more interesting. I was on a mission to explore a different self in essence.

And to do that, you do it with a person you don’t know well. Sure, I knew him for a few years but I didn’t know him know him. Because a lot of the affair is projecting onto this person traits they have shown you no real proof that they even possess. In fact, the ap in my case would say lots of things and never follow through on them, and I would still double down.

Anyway, just like when one becomes a gambler- it starts out with the choices but the push pull dynamic is caused by the highs and lows of winning and losing. After the high of wining, you chase tha high through losing until you win again. And overtime, the brain pure more and more dopamine because you keep taking higher and higher risks.

Before you know it, you are betting your house payment, and risking everything becuse your brain only lights up now if you are taking the risks. It doesn’t even matter when the last time you won, you can’t function anymore without making bets. Because the lows are lower and lower and you keep chasing the win.

Thats what having an affair is like. The push pull happens because you both know it needs to end and then when you try to end it then your brain is not giving you those dopamine/adrenaline shots the deep dark lows are like this prison you can’t get out of.

But it’s not because you picked a good person to be with, it’s simply you have to go back and win again. This is essentially what limerance and I experienced it. Had I not, I don’t think I would have ever understood it, nor do I think I would have believed it.

To me, affair fog is nothing but withdrawal. It’s the lies you tell yourself. If I just could make one more bet translates here to if I could just talk to them I would feel better. It’s an addiction to a person. Not because the deserve it but because that’s how you conditioned yourself like Pavlov’s dog.

And just like in gambling, you think "if I could just make one bet, and it would fix my problems. I could win back plenty of money to get that mortgage payment" But of course if you break no contact, it doesn’t fix anything, it just gives you that adrenaline/dopamine fix and you keep finding ways to lie to yourself.

This has something tied to it like OCD, I literally took meds to try and help the impulses. In my case I never broke no contact. And of course I went through withdrawal and started to find ways to replace normal amounts of dopamine. I started running, I ate foods that promoted it. I experimented with getting hobbies.

You are right not to look back though. Your ex has a lot of work to do to make her not susceptible. It’s like being dedicated in recovery. For me, I don’t feel any temptation, but I have developed a lot of healthy ways to cope, I work to stay mindful and self aware, and I have learned how to be connected, vulnerable, and communicative in my relationship. For many people this is why serial cheating is a thing.

So I don’t think it’s bad to want to understand it, but it should not change your path. She may very well see what she has lost in all of this, I am sure that’s very possible. It resonates with me. But she needs to find some stability with her own two feet and figure out how to live a more balanced life.

Wikipedia has a very good article on limerance. Dr frank Pittman did a lot of work in defining the predictable patterns of it through his work on what he calls romantic infidelity. People with this propensity are addicts. Going from that to safe partner is a long. Also only 3 percent of marriages born from an affair last. Sure we all have antidotal stories, but when you think about it, that’s 3 couples out of a hundred. It’s not weird to know a couple or two who had an affair, Got married and stayed that way.

But affairs in general are often not rooted in reality or even fantasy, rather it’s the lies they tell themselves in the height of addiction.

I will add I don’t share that to excuse a thing. Addictions begin with choices I don’t have a heroin addiction because I never chose to use it.

And not all affairs contain limerance either. But when they are willing to keep losing everything, that’s not because of love. Many people can walk away from an AP with no problem. And there is a spectrum. It’s from not at all to bunny boilers. I consider myself somewhere in the middle.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:03 PM, Tuesday, March 17th]

On more thing that occurs to me, I'm sorry I have an annoying habit of twisting things over and over in my mind till I feel finished but it also occurs to me to say that....I think people that cheat, most of them anyway....are LOOKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE. yeah, sometimes they fall over a hottie and just have a tumble, but I think most of the time it's not just physical lust. Or maybe sometime it starts off that way, but I think it comes down to....the cheater is looking for something ELSE. Something they don't have. Maybe they can't really define it clearly when it starts off but whatever it is they're looking for....the spouse doesn't seem to have it. Probably the AP doesn't either, but that's what gets it started off. So there's something missing, not in the BS and not necessarily in the marriage because the marriage is what it is, but something missing that the cheater is looking for, maybe it's some kind of sex, maybe it's some kind of quality, maybe it's a lifestyle, maybe it's money, I don't know....but I think that's what it starts with and then they weave a story around it. So that's a big part of the reason I would not generally consider reconciling. I figure they cheated because they want something ELSE, something they don't think I have or can't provide. That's a basic level of insult to me I can't accept. Or maybe it's just a fact of life and I accept it as an insult because I think it's healthier mentally to think of it that way. I figure it if was missing enough for them to cheat on me over.....it's always gonna be missing. It's not something I would bother investing in. There's plenty of new people out there as long as you're young enough, healthy enough, and you can make the effort. GO WEST YOUNG MAN!!!

I figure it if was missing enough for them to cheat on me over.....it's always gonna be missing.

I agree here. I do not think it’s impossible for it to go from missing to found. But it does take a lot of work not everyone will do. I think some people do, I did that work- it was a lot missing inside of me—and it doesn’t just turn up. It takes a lot of work over an extended period of time.

That’s not to say I really still felt like cheating until all this work was done. I didn’t want to be a cheater or cheat again almost immediately. But until you find the healing and tools that help you stay healthy and happy you will certainly keep leaning into chaos just in different forms.

I truly believe people can and do learn their lessons. And some can make changes quickly. But some of us who are prone to limerant because of that void, it takes a lot of time and at this point I wouldn’t recommend you get reinvested. Limerant enough to leave is a higher level of chaos and instability.