SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hellfire, I agree. He did initially agree to post here, then read what was being said and claimed to fear legal repercussions.

I also worried for a time about his mental health reading here about himself. Like I said before, I need him capable of working and having his head on straight. Especially to afford all the goddamn therapy we need.

But I am quite angry that I no longer feel I have a safe place to talk or that I have private thoughts because he knows about this place. Pisses me off because I don't know another forum quite like SI where people are as direct as many of you, which I feel is helpful to me.

I never should have told him.

Maybe you could post anyway? If he doesn't like it, that's on him.

And if he can't handle your feelings about what he's done,and what he is doing, that will just continue to let you know you have nothing to salvage.

You could tell him of he wants a chance at R, he is no longer allowed to view SI.

He has told me he isn't viewing it but I don't really believe that. I may keep posting. We will see what the future holds. I'm sure more shit will be along shortly!

I am going to word this very carefully because I see the pitchforks are out.

Your sister was 16, although I don't agree with it, is that the legal age of consent in your state/country?

If so, part of the reason she may have come to terms with it is because she realized he did nothing illegal. Immoral, oh hell yeah, illegal, probably not.

How do I know: My ex-girlfriend in high school (we both were 16) left me for a loser from her fast food job. He was 32. Yeah, her parents hated it, but they could do nothing about it. I even tried to do something about it because I was mad, again, nothing I could do.

Can we circle back to a more unpopular question away from your husband's affair.

Why are you trying to divorce him so badly?

You said you went to 5 different therapists. It sounds like you are shopping for your answer as to why to leave your husband. I am a BS, I know how that works. He did not leave you, he tried to make it work.

Did you just white knuckle it and not change to improve your marriage after you cheated?

Not accusing, just asking because it sounds like you really want this to be a reason to leave. Usually the spouse that cheats feels they are more in control of the marriage. That is why they think they deserve the affair and can handle the lies and feelings. That they are guarding the BS from things they can't handle.

Perhaps you still feel that way?

I am asking this because the time machine thread had you saying you wish you never married him. That is after he accepted you back after you cheated 11 years ago and I bet with more emotional ties and far more physical interaction.

I am not trying to 2X4 you. I am trying to show you where you may be so focused on your anger, so you don't have to fix your side of the marriage.

Did you fix your marriage 11 years ago?

Can you elaborate on how you have been since your affair?

Maybe this thing with the sister was the straw that broke the camels back.

After being spat on, and being dragged by her hair across the front yard, eventually, a woman decides she is worth more.

DoinBetter, your interpretation is way off.

If OP was just looking for a reason to leave, her husband has handed many of them on a silver platter... long before she even found out he was grooming and (at a minimum) jerking off in front her teenage sister. He’s physically assaulted and publicly humiliated OP. So no, he doesn’t deserve a medal just because he stayed with her after her affair.

Instead of leaving, which she is perfectly justified in doing, she is going to multiple counselors with him and trying desperately to find reasons to stay.

Lastly, the main reason he won’t post here is because what he did was illegal wherever they are. But if legality is irrelevant. Plenty of morally and ethically abhorrent things are legal on paper.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:33 PM, March 4th (Thursday)]

Plenty of morally and ethically abhorrent things are legal on paper.

You mean like having an affair?

Wow DoinBetter...awesome, thank you for your thoughts, I guess?? I said what I did in the time machine thread because he effectively cheated on me and betrayed me WELL before I did. Barely a year into our marriage and after I just had our first child. I should have divorced him then, but oh that's right it was kept from me for 20 years so I wasn't given the information at the time to make that decision.

After I ended my A I told him(yes I know, so wonderful of me ..eye roll). I didn't keep it from him for years and years, while maintaining a connection with my AP. I gave him the knowledge so he had a choice to stay or go. I didn't steal his agency for almost our entire 20+ yr marriage. Meanwhile he was able to continue to be connected to his supply for years and years. And he expects me to stay married to him knowing we would have to be around my sister all the time or I would have to choose not to see HER, when this is HIS fault.

You sound a lot like him actually, saying my consensual A with an adult male was so much worse than what he did, sexually inappropriate behavior with his wife's teenage sister, with about 6 months before that of what he describes as like an EA. She was in high school!

Do you think I deserved what I got from him after my A? Because I did, for a very long time. He made me feel like shit and worthless. What do you think it means when a woman can only have sex with her husband if she's drunk though? Do you think that's a relationship where she feels she can be vulnerable? Because that's what happened. He made me feel horrible for what I did, but I already did all by myself. Where was his shame and guilt for what he did though? Why didn't he come clean to me after he did it because he was torn up with how much of a shit of a human he was?! Cause he did NOT feel that way. He minimized and justified.

And for everyone's knowledge, the age of consent where we live is 16. She was apparently 16 at the time of all this.

WE have had a total of 5 therapists, and that's just this go 'round. We have my IC, he's on therapist #2, and we are on MC #2. I am seeing the same therapist I saw after my A. I am not shopping for reasons to divorce him. If anything, I'm trying to find reasons to stay in this but is really hard! I'm trying to see the good in him, and yes recognize he "took me back".

I don't "need this to be a reason to leave", it is all by itself. Just like my A was. In actuality, he could go to jail for what he did if my sister were to say in court that it happened against her will, regardless of her age. I didn't do anything illegal. Immoral yes but not criminal.

GMC: “You mean like having an affair”

Yup!

But anyone who sees a moral equivalence between 2 consenting adults having an affair and an adult grooming and sexually abusing his wife’s teenage sister has a few screws loose.

Thank you for responding. Like I said, I am trying to be gentle and perhaps get you some new ways to look at things for your MC. I do not condone what either of you did, I am trying to talk through how like most mad hatters have expressed on this site, I only know 2 personally, you are working through this with a "Whose A and post A reaction was worse?"

did if my sister were to say in court that it happened against her will

I read this as you are focused on him grooming and sexually assaulting your sister. Otherwise, this isn't illegal. The assaulting you after your A was illegal, but that isn't what I am trying to dig into here.

Ask, some of the MHs on this site. There is a bit of, "But she did more physically and had 2 APs"

"No, he did more emotionally and that is way worse." (Example)

How has your progress been in that area? You said he removed your agency for so much longer. That is true. He hid his betrayal longer which is a huge issue.

How can you get your marriage to be less broken, where the truth comes out 20 years afterward when 11 years ago was around when both people should be laying bare their souls. After an affair eventually you get to the "Fuck it, things can't get worse stage." (Or, it did for me and most others I have seen here)

Then you get brutally honest with your spouse on everything because you see holding back as just hurting you both.

For me it was how we climbed out of the plain of lethal flatness.

Did you 2 ever get to that point?

What could you 2 do to talk through the worst parts of your souls and how you together make your lives better?

It seems to be you 2 are fighting and they keep trying to figure out who deserves to be punished more. It makes the marriage tough to be in because both sides can't move forward.

My wife cheated and I didn't, so my marriage has been as imbalanced as yours in your mind. Thing is, I never cheated back, so I had to realize, trying to drag out that pound of flesh from her is only hurting me. I was so focused on hurting her over building our life together.

Am I scared and damaged now. Yeah!

Do I think WS need to be shooken to wake up from the fog. Sometimes.

Do, I think trying to compare affairs is helping. No. It seems to never work. I am thinking of the couple where she cheated right before, then right after they were married. Then he found out and cheated back. They are on here.

Those 2 had to stop trying to one up on who is worse and think more about how people were feeling at the time and if it will happen again? Did they think they should move on as a married couple or go their separate ways?

Just where I was trying to push you to. Just because you seem to keep getting into the rut of how to punish him back and that doesn't work.

Keep moving forward and good luck.

Personally it would not matter to me if it was legal what he did with the 16 year old child he molested. A grown man should know better. That would be a deal breaker for me. It says to me he is an opportunist who will take advantage of someone who is not yet fully mentally formed for his own pleasure. I would not get over that, would not matter how much time passed. I could never respect him, trust his judgment or see him as anything other than a predator for the rest of my life. Period.

I am a madhatter btw. It's not the same thing as my husband having an affair with the 38 year old woman he just had an affair with. Not in the same ballpark at all.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:23 AM, March 5th (Friday)]

I do not condone what either of you did, I am trying to talk through how like most mad hatters have expressed on this site, I only know 2 personally, you are working through this with a "Whose A and post A reaction was worse?"

Wow. This just really comes off as tone deaf. There's a whole different layer of betrayal happening when the AP is a family member let alone a CHILD who did not consent to the sexual activity. Yes, it is different and yes, it is worse. Any infidelity that involves sexual assault is automatically worse because there's the added dynamic of predation and I think we can both agree that the psychology behind being a cheater and the psychology behind being a predator are not the same.

A 16 year old is a minor. A child. Legality isn't the issue. The girl was in high school, FFS.

Anyone who thinks it's ok for a man in his 30s, to do what he did, to a 16 year old girl, you're just as sick as he is.

Whole-heartily agree with Hellfire and Prissy. Infidelity is bad, but there's levels to this, and grooming a child to sexually abuse is on a much higher level than an affair between two consenting adults. In fact, dragging a person by their hair across the front lawn is on a higher level as well.

In a just world, both sisters would support each other with the understanding that both were victims of this man.

Unreal, I'm pretty sure this varies by state, so check the laws where you're located. Some people are required by law to report any claims of child abuse, etc. They are called mandatory reporters. Doctors, therapists, and EMTs are some examples.

That means if your sister, husband, or anyone else involved, mentions this to any mandatory reporter, that person will notify the police. In Texas, there is no statute of limitations for indecency with a child. There are other rules too Again, this may be different if you're not in Texas.

I'm not a lawyer either and I'm about the farthest thing from an expert on law. I'm just trying to let you know this situation goes a bit beyond the infidelity aspect.

There are some states where the age of consent may be 16 but only if the other party is within 5 years older—my home state is one of them. So, a 16-year-old could legally consent to sex with a 21-year-old....not someone in their 30s.

The legality aspect is beside the point. The child was 16.

I have a 16 year old daughter. She's a sophomore in high school. 10th grade.

Bend it all you want, there is nothing ok about about a 16 year old being subjected to sexual abuse by a predator.

I have a 16 year old daughter. She's a sophomore in high school. 10th grade.

I have had 3 16 year old daughters. The idea of this infuriates me. Not only is it sick, having to defend why it's sick is another level. They are still babies pretty much at 18.

I don't think I would feel that differently if you told me the sister was 18 because she was still so malleable and vulnerable to have a brother-in-law who instead of choosing to protect her and love her decided to use what he knew of her to objectify and exploit her. It's beyond sickening.

Sorry, this is black and white in my mind, I would divorce him. I would also be very keen on reporting him too. The only thing that would hold me back from him would be trying to assess what is in my sisters' best interest moving forward.

Calling for Justice in the Wayward Forums and pushing someone away from healing they are striving for in MC.

Try to think how your statements help this MH instead of how you make the world right people. Reread my post.

Pointing out abusive behavior is helping a MH. Pointing it out would be helping a WS too. Cheating doesn't give the cheated spouse a free pass to do whatever they want without scrutiny. There are many WSes here who have had to overcome codependency in themselves in order to be safe and healthy. Pretending Unreal's husband's actions aren't problematic and concerning above and beyond the infidelity is enabling any codependency she may be dealing with and keeping her unhealthy.

DB, I think your intentions are good but I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation any better than Unreal's husband does which is probably why she said you sound like him. This goes so much deeper than just who cheated on who and we have no idea if there are more victims or if the worst has yet to be revealed. None of that has anything to do with Unreal's A and the two need to be kept separate. I believe Unreal that she has attoned for her A sufficiently and that it is not relevant to any talk of what her husband has and is currently doing.