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Reconciliation is not something you can manipulate him into by doing something like sending an anonymous email. I think the anonymous email is a bad idea.

You say you want him to be scared and know that he has been found out. Well that will all happen when you confront him with evidence and divorce papers.

By the way just because you file for divorce and present him with papers does not mean you have to get divorced. It just shows that you are not going to tolerate being lied to and cheated on and that you are starting the process of getting yourself out of infidelity. You can always decide to give reconciliation a chance later.

A word of caution, it seems like you might believe that you can control the narrative and/or the outcome or perhaps force him to feel a certain way after you expose everything. You cannot know how he will react. Right now you must focus on the facts. You have a husband who says he loves you and treats you well. What does the evidence prove? Does someone who loves you lie to your face and have sex with another man's wife behind your back? Is that "treating you well"?

I know this must all come as a shock. Your marriage as you know it is over. The person you thought you knew is not the person you are dealing with now. You are wise to get out ahead of it. I applaud you for hiring a private investigator and for remaining calm while you gather evidence and get your ducks in order.

We have all been there, including me. I was in complete shock. Disbelief. Pain. Agony. I would make excuses for her. Believe what she told me. I so desperately wanted to believe she would come to her senses and return to loving me so we could work on the marriage. I did the "pick me" dance. It was torture.

If I could go back and do it over again I would have quietly gathered evidence and not wasted any more of my precious time and energy on trying to make someone realize the enormity of their betrayal let alone try to figure out a way to put it all back together and hope that they love me enough to change and become a safe partner again. Sometimes it is best to just move on.

Sorry you are going through this. You are showing great restrain and patience by holding off. Very smart of you, this is chess not checkers. I made accusations too quickly and missed my opportunities for real proof gathering.

But my question remains: does exposure of the A really end the A? Should I start with the OBS and let him do the work for me?

See my earlier post - and please read it again and here's my timeline. But the short answer is NO. There is no guarantee the A will end no matter what you do. Is it more likely - it seems to be. Does it always happen? Nope. Caught my cheater 10/17 - confronted, he admitted, and sent her a N/C letter at my request (worthless IMO to ask - if you have to ask more than once don't bother) - a week later he re-ignited the A and took it underground for a year. 10/18 - caught cheater again - I told OBS and blew it up to his best friend - the A stopped for 3 months, then he took it underground again. Caught cheater a 3rd time 4/19 - again told his best friend, the OBS and the AP (wrote email ccing OBS, AP, and my WH), my friends, and some family - and planned to leave. Only when it was clear I was actually going, which coincided with WH and the AP having a public spat about things I had written in the email (see they were lying to each other and I outed some of their respective lies and apparently they didn't like being lied to - only enjoyed lying) did the A end, and at that point I didn't care.

Oh ThisIsSoLonely...thank you. I cannot believe that you went through 3 of these. You are tough! Was it with the same AP?

I suspect my WH/AP are not going to turn on each other. I wish. But they are in love. So I am taking it day by day to get my papers in order and make a plan - I actually called movers today to see how these things can work fast because I would want to leave when he was away. I want an iron-clad plan. I want him to fear public exposure although I am sadly scared to say anything because I am afraid he will choose her. This makes me a pathetic hypocrite.

Did you reconcile? are you ok? did he ever say why he never left for the AP? these are things things that scare and confuse me. I just had to see him for a quick drink as we were working on a project together and he opened his phone and I saw a mushy text from her. He is occasionally sloppy in terms of hiding it (on his phone). I know she would leave her husband for my WH.

I wish I did not care like you did not. But for now, I have some control and I am hanging on to it. I know leaving is the best move.

I’m so sorry that you’re here, blindsided. For what it’s worth, you’re doing great so far. Most of us wish that we had been able to be so thoughtful and deliberate when we discovered our WS’s A.

Gently though, you are getting a lot of good advice that is probably difficult to completely process right now. The OW is not your problem. Whether she is around or not will not determine whether your WH gets his shit together and pulls his head out of his backside. Many, many of us here have experienced having spouses that went NC with the OP but never bothered to do any other work to become decent human beings and partners. The end of the A is just the beginning of seeing who you are now married to and what they are willing to do (or not—many times not) to help you heal and take care of their families. The post A period can often be the most devastating, disappointing and ultimately destructive of all. In short, the A is only part of the problem. Your WH and his dishonesty, deceit, callousness, selfishness, and entitlement are the real problems, and the OW didn’t create or cause those problems. They’re all his.

I appreciate your strategic thinking, but again, gently, while public exposure can certainly be a strategic move, there is one person that has the right to know what’s happening, and I am of the side that believes we have a responsibility to let the OBS know if we know. If you are planning to expose the affair to ANYONE else, he has the right to know first. Think about it, how would you feel if you learned that the OBS had known and had shared the reality of your marriage and that very private information about what YOUR WH was getting up to with his wife to a lot of other people, but had failed to clue you in on YOUR OWN LIFE AND MARRIAGE.

Your WH is betraying both you and the OBS, but trust me, finding out that the OBS knows and doesn’t bother to let you know so that you can protect yourself from potentially life-threatening STDs, so that you can protect your family and children from the fallout of your WHs actions, so that you can protect yourself and your children financially, emotionally, physically, is EVERY bit a betrayal, as well. Just think about how you would feel if the tables were turned. If you are going to expose the affair to ANYONE, the OBS has the right to be the first stop.

Your WH and the OW are clearly nervous about being found out. If they are soooo in love and want to be together, why would that be? My guess is that they both just want the sneaking around and having an A. Again, many of us have/had WHs who had NO desire to divorce. They just had a desire to cheat while married, and they had no concern for having an honest, committed marriage that respected and valued their spouse. If that is the case, again, getting rid of the A and the OW will solve nothing. Maybe ask yourself if you really, truly want to R with someone who wants that kind of marriage—the kind where he gets to have you holding down all the difficult parts of a relationship while he reserves all the fun and romance and excitement for his elicit relationship. Do you really want someone that has so little care or value for you as a person?

You’re doing great allowing yourself time to process all of this, blindsided. Everyone here knows how devastating and traumatizing this is. We’re here for you, whatever you decide to do. Please take care of yourself and keep watching his behavior. You will get where you need to go eventually. You’ve got this.

I would not send an anonymous email. You have scenarios in your mind about how that could play out, but human beings are unpredictable, especially in emotionally volatile situations. It’s unlikely to play out the way you think/want, or to cause any clear resolution for the affair. My guess is that it would just cause them to be more secretive and inject unnecessary added drama in the situation.

That said, if you just want to see him squirm, it’s probably an effective way to do that.

Otherwise, I admire your poise and your planning. I wish I had had your presence of mind when my husband cheated. I’m very sorry you’re here; take care of yourself.

[This message edited by Grieving at 2:12 AM, Thursday, July 27th]

While I can totally understand wanting to hold off on confronting to get your own ducks in a row, I am not one to advise or play games myself. Anonymous emails and stuff like that just seem childish and pointless to me - there is no telling what the reaction would be. There is also no telling exactly what the reaction will be with a face to face confrontation but at least it's honest, and not stooping to the game level of the affair itself. My advice is always to get what you want to get in order, have a plan for yourself, and confront. Be prepared to say you are not going to continue living with a third person in your marriage, be firm about that, inform the obs and let it go where it may. You can not control the outcome.

Was it with the same AP?

Yes. Same married AP. She was married to one of my WH's best friends (WH was a groomsman in AP-OBS' wedding). AP, WH and OBS all worked together too.

I suspect my WH/AP are not going to turn on each other. I wish. But they are in love.

This means NOTHING. My WH-AP were "in love" too. If I went back and searched for "Love you" or "I love you" in their texts to each other during the A I would likely find it 100,000 times - they said it almost every text (which is ridiculous). On d-day 2 I recorded a phone call between them (to confront my WH with) and my luck was my WH put her on speakerphone so I recorded both sides of the call. They said I love you at least 10 times during their 45 minute call. They were drowning in sparkly-unicorn world...

During that same call my WH lied to AP no less than 8 times, that I can confirm. About me. About my job. About his future. About why it took him so long to call her. Lies. Total lies. By example, he was lying about why he couldn't leave me at that time. On that call, right after I love you number 2, he told her I had taken a new job that would keep me in the area we lived in indefinitely without his knowledge - reality was that he was talking me into applying for that same local job. He also had told her I was applying for jobs far away, like we were splitting up. Reality was I WAS talking about applying for jobs far away with him and WH had convinced me to apply local to see what happens and if I didn't find something I wanted then we could talk about that.

So much for undying, brutally honest, love, huh.

A million people on here will echo this: My WH thought they were "in love". Now he says, in thinking about that, there was no "love" at all - it was all a fantastic boost to his ego, and it felt great - total lust and absolute limerance. BUT there is no point in trying to convince your WH of that now - much like my WH at that time, had I said such things he would have thought I was an idiot AND that I just didn't understand their "love".

So I am taking it day by day to get my papers in order and make a plan - I actually called movers today to see how these things can work fast because I would want to leave when he was away. I want an iron-clad plan. I want him to fear public exposure although I am sadly scared to say anything because I am afraid he will choose her. This makes me a pathetic hypocrite.

What this means is that you are full blown playing the "pick me" game. If you are a full blown pathetic hypocrite (you're not), then just about every BS on here is too as most of us - me included - did the same. The pick me game doesn't work. It is the biggest "mistake" most of make when faced with infidelity. We are taught that ugly/boring/needy (insert whatever "bad" attribute you can think of) kinds of people get cheated on (because they aren't as good of partners) and that the solution to marital issues is to talk out your problems - that lack of communication has causes rifts in marriages and relationships and that talking through things almost always works, especially when coupled with fixing your flaws to make yourself more attractive to your partner, physically or otherwise. Fixing these perceived problems in yourself as the BS and making yourself more available to the WS seems like the natural cure. It's not.

This is because the problem isn't you. The problem is that even if there were marital problems it's your WS's decision to cheat and treat you this way instead of coming to you to address whatever problem (if indeed there was one) that has caused the real problems. If your WS wanted to leave you, then talking to you is the course of action he should have taken. Even if his mind is made up, and even if he fears the emotional aftermath of that choice, that is the correct course of action. He made a commitment to you. If your WS didn't intend to leave you but had problems with the marriage, he again needed to address those things with you.

In my case my WH admits now, there was no problem with us when the A started. AP had been lightly pursuing my WH for years apparently. Just making little compliments at first. Joking with him a little more than others at work. Enlisting my WH to help her prepare a surprise party for OBS (and as I learned later, being a bit overly flirty during their preparations). All this lead to her talking to my WH more, about random stuff, then about personal things, then asking if he found her attractive, and so on (his phone proved all of this to be true as I didn't trust his explanations for a long time) - until they were fucking in our house (and bed) while I was working several states away. There was no marital "excuse" for him to end up there. He did so because he wanted to do - because AP made herself available. Later on as it continued he picked fights and made up reasons why I was bad and she was good. Then we really did have fights about things that he was creating in his head. I could have done anything and everything he wanted and he still would have made our relationship bad - he needed that justification to keep lying to me - to keep disrespecting me.

He is NOT going to "pick you" or not pick you because you outed him. And you need to reframe this thought process in your head: Right now, you are afraid to out the affair because you are afraid he will choose to be with her and that you will lose what you currently have now - sharing your WH with the AP and you getting all the shitty parts. Do you really want that??? Is that better than him leaving (answer: no, it's not). Think about that for a minute - think about doing 2 years of this (and I know from personal experience how TERRIBLE that is).

Did you reconcile? are you ok? did he ever say why he never left for the AP? these are things things that scare and confuse me. I just had to see him for a quick drink as we were working on a project together and he opened his phone and I saw a mushy text from her. He is occasionally sloppy in terms of hiding it (on his phone).

He never left for the AP, according to him, because: 1) there was a part of him that knew it was all just a fantasy and that it would not work long term in reality (and he wasn't even sure he wanted it to - it was easier to say I love you and pretend like it would all be perfect if they were together, and do nothing to make it happen), 2) he wasn't ever 100% sure he wanted me to leave (he did in the moment when he was with her - sometimes - but when after those moments passed he wasn't sure); and 3) he was too afraid to make a move - he was a coward and totally conflict avoidant and didn't want to deal with the aftermath of either decision, so he did nothing. The AP and my WH ended up in a screaming match in a fairly public setting because I had sent an email to AP, OBS, and WH AFTER d-day 3, when I had already decided to leave and was waiting for my house to close escrow - all together - and attached screenshots of things he had said to her and to me which established what a liar he was (lots of them - so many lies - and I just scratched the surface). And then I let them deal with it. I had zero care for the outcome - I wasn't trying to manipulate them into the blow up that happened - I was just saying my peace, and letting the OBS have a bit more evidence at the same time. I simply could not give any more of my time. In fact, I didn't even ask about the aftermath of that email until a few months ago when we were on vacation. I had no idea about the blow up they had and how it turned into some sort of mutual hate-fest between them that has never ceased. It didn't matter. The email was 100% for me. Would they have restarted their A had I not sent that? Who knows. I didn't care anymore.

We did not R formally - not in the way people here talk about it generally. I eventually moved out, bought a house in a different state, and left (I legally terminated our marriage while we were in in-house separation as it was during COVID lockdown and moving out wasn't really a viable option). At that same time my WH got into IC pretty heavily - I blew up the A with the OBS at d-day 2 and OBS apparently told some people at work, so my WH found himself with a lot fewer friends and a bunch of people who talked shit about him and he wanted to figure out why he had so wholly destroyed his work and private life - why he did all of this, and for so long. We still talked and I could tell he was making changes - not to impress me - but for him. He has become a much more open person - and while he has a long way to go - he's getting there. So at first we were working on reconciling our friendship. Now, although I still live elsewhere, we "date" occasionally, meeting for long weekends, and as I work remotely, sometimes for longer if I travel to him. But it's not often (like 4 times per year) and I'm happy that way. I still love my WH but IDK if I am romantically in love with him - that attraction has not returned and IDK if it ever will. He knows that too. That's where we are.

I know she would leave her husband for my WH.

Gently, you don't know anything about what may or may not happen on her end (or with your WS). The AP told my WH daily she was ready, willing, and able to leave OBS for my WH. Alas, she didn't. Even when it all blew up. Granted the OBS eventually divorced her several years ago, but WH and AP have not reconciled and apparently actively avoid each other on the rare days there are at work together now.

I wish I did not care like you did not. But for now, I have some control and I am hanging on to it. I know leaving is the best move.

You are not unlike me. My d-day 1 was in 2017. My d-day 2 was in 2018. My d-day 3 was in 2019. It was only after being lied to and treated like a doormat for 2 years did I get to the point where I realized that caring about ME was what I needed to do. Where I had enough of my WH's bullshit, and where I really understood that continuing to do what I was doing was only hurting me more.

To the extent you have any control, it is only over yourself. You have ZERO control over your WH. Thing is, you never have. Relationships aren't about control - they are about a mutual agreement to act in a certain way with each other, which comes from respect. Respect is a fundamental aspect of love. Right now your WH does not respect you. Does not respect his marriage vows. Does not respect "rules" of human decency. You have NO control over that, and you will not ever. He has to decide to change IF he ever wants to be a respectable person again. You can't make that happen. You can only show him that you respect yourself and see what he does.

I came to where I am now as it got to the point where I wanted to stop disrespecting myself. I never wanted to share my partner with anyone else. I never wanted to allow someone to treat me with such disrespect. But I did. Eventually I felt horrible for betraying myself in that way, and I decided to leave. As often happens (but not always by any stretch), when I made that decision, and my WH KNEW it - believed it - fully 100% understood I had no intention of sticking around and tolerating someone who would disrespect me so totally. That was when my WH looked at himself and, in his words, thought "how did I become such a horrible person? What is wrong with ME?" That was when he started making moves to figure himself out. That is the only thing that led to us still being friends and sometimes more... It's not solely the knowledge that I will not tolerate being treated that way - it came from within him - to work on himself. It's a long tough process. But it has been much easier for me to deal with not living in the same house with him. And easier for me also counts - I deserve that, always. You will get to a point where sitting in a house with him sneaking looks at his phone is no longer palatable for you - the thought of doing that makes me a bit sick to my stomach at this point. I know I can't live like that any more.

So please, do yourself a favor, and stop believing you have any semblance of control over your WS by sticking around or by making whatever moves you make. You don't. You have control over you own actions and how those actions will affect you. That is all. Eventually you will realize, not only is that all, but it is enough.

(EDITS for typos and clarity) and also as I forgot to answer the most important part: Am I okay? Yes, I'm pretty great. Aside from stressing about money from time to time, things are good. I ended up with my actual real dream job after all, and I work 100% remotely. I bought a beautiful house (hence the financial struggle sometimes lol) in an area with weather I vastly prefer to where WH and I lived, I travel when I want to see who I want, and I have the dogs I want, and I have tons of freedom to do what I want, including seeing (or not) WH. It's not perfect. It's certainly not what I imagined my life would be like, but it's pretty damn nice, and I would never leave it for one second to go back to the life I had even pre-A, because in hindsight I know that I was hooked up to a really flawed person. So yeah, things are much better. Getting out of infidelity is like having a near death experience - I appreciate all the normal things so much more, and I am stronger too. You can get there is you just need to feel good about yourself again and hold your ground!

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:55 PM, Friday, July 28th]

ThisIsSoLonely, that is such an articulate explanation of how you took charge of your life. I hope OP pays attention because it might save her time. You lost 2/3 years to a cheater. I think it is great that you share how you found your voice and stood up for yourself, and moved forward.

Thisissolonley - wow. you are absolutely right, and thank you for sharing and being so thoughtful. I have read it 3x. The more I try to control, the crazier I look and more helpless I feel. You are right, they ARE going to do what they want, no matter what I do. You tried and yours kept coming back. I cant stop them, I cant stop their feelings I cant win and I can't manipulate the situation. I have to learn to just let go of HIM. I have to be willing to lose and walk away alone and empty handed, which scares the hell out of me. That would be my worst case scenario. Once I am at peace with that, I can serve D. And there is a small glimmer of me who sees a life where I am alone. In my own house, not thinking about him anymore. It looks very lonely and I see the anger/trauma coming with me, but in that house I sleep a little better. I wish I could skip straight to a better mental space. I have been making lists of all the ways I would spend my time and enjoy my life. Trying, but it looks very lonely.

Oddly... each time I uncover something like a phone call etc, I am almost becoming desensitized - meaning I feel less sick each time. I want to replace any feeling toward him with a lump of stone as my heart which will make it easier to leave. I know I am not going about it the right way. But you inspire me. And I know I definitely can't do this for 2 years like you did. I will break. I wish I had the strength to just drop the hammer like you did. I am not there yet, but getting there. I almost wish he was mean to me, because then it would be easier to leave. The hard part for me is that I am his reality, he does still puts me front and center in his real life with is 90% of his life. Tonight he wants to do something special with me, and he always wants me a part of everything in his life. He is not avoiding me. She is getting the scraps, the stolen text messages and phone calls. I guess this is why I have a sense of false hope, because on the surface, he treats me so well. I have stopped trying to understand what he sees in her. Baseline, I know it is sex, she is accommodating and the forbidden fruit etc. I also have to stop caring about that too, because I can't compare myself to her. I can't compete.

I’m against the anonymous letter as are most folks, but not so much for tactical reasons. I totally understand those. The joy of f—-ing with their heads would be compelling. I’m against it because it would be you lying and manipulating, and that would diminish yourself.

Along with what everyone else has said, I would suggest really make the effort to be truthful and honest at this time. No games, just the truth. Doesn’t mean telling him what you know right now.

When you do reveal, reveal as little as possible. He will be desperate for information so he can get his feet back on the ground and build a new set of lies to try and minimize and justify his actions, and you will unfortunately be primed to hear it. So keep your cards close to your chest. Let him talk, and see how it aligns with what you know (that he doesn’t know you know).

Sending strength!

also have to stop caring about that too, because I can't compare myself to her. I can't compete

You don't compete not because you can't, but because there is no competition. You are real. His affair and all that comes with it, including the OW, is fantasy. You don't compete with a fantasy. You blow it up. And as an engineer I can tell you: blowing stuff up is satisfying as hell if done properly.

Hope you will get through this as unharmed as possible. But believe me: the pain subsides and makes space for better times.

I am sorry you are here.

Each of our situations are different -- yet sometimes seem so alike.

I hired a PI and got all the info I needed. I had already decided to NOT reconcile before confronting.
After I had the absolute proof, the PI found the OBS for me and I made contact with him. Such a nice man and he'd been through it before with his W. I told him my plans to confront, and he wanted to be there. So plans were made and the next time my H went to her area, the PI found out he planned to pick up OW from her work to go out. So when they came out of her job, the other BS and I were there waiting on them. It was a SH*T show to be sure and the OW was so shocked she threw up all over herself. Needless to say, she didn't look very 'glamorous" then. Poor thang. My H was shocked into silence then tried to talk to me and the OBS and I just walked away together and went to dinner. He said his W had cheated on him throughout their marriage but he'd never had the proof. He was very grateful to have proof. His D ended well for him and he kept the home. When he started his new life, he met a wonderful woman and I was invited to their wedding and I went!

That is all in the past for me and my XH and I have a decent, distant relationship. We see each other occasionally at events that our daughter is involved with. Our D went through quickly as he definitely didn't want to lose his six-figure job and he'd been seeing her on business trips. I got everything I wanted in the D. He was homeless and had to buy a new home.

I definitely liked the idea of confronting them together with the OBS. It worked for me but everyone is different.

As someone who loves revenge, your anon email and general desire to mess with him sounds fun! Maybe what would be even more fun is sending it to the OW instead. I feel like she would be squirmier and thus make your WH squirmier.

This is not advice that can provide you with a better outcome. This is simply someone supporting you in your position of having the upper hand. And if you feel you may explode prematurely, the email may be a good outlet to stifle it.

BTW: A good idea to throw him off would be to schedule the email to be sent at a time you two are together and you're not using your phone.

I had the same thoughts as you. I didn’t want to confront him bc I thought I’d push them together. A worse scenario would have been for him to be with me only because he got caught and couldn’t be alone.

So I found out about the affair, got an atty, could not afford the PI. So when I told the OBS he didn’t believe me. The next day I had my wh served divorce papers asking for everything! Then I refused to speak to him. (My role model was Sandra Bullock. She was so classy when she found out about her cheating husband. She had him served, and completely broke off all communication, I think went hiding somewhere.)

My WS said he wanted to come back, I said he needed a minimum of 6 months counseling before I’d even consider talking to him, I knew my kids and I could not go thru this again. I also wanted to see what kind of a person he was. He went like 2 times and quit.

I then D him and focused on myself.

I think you could have the PI find out when/where the OBS could be talked to, but don’t tell him yet.
Then have your WS served.
Then watch he and OW freak out over if/when you’re going to tell her H!

However, the problem with this scenario is the OBS is in the dark. My friend was told of her H affair by a PI secretly hired by the OBS before he had his wife served for D. The other spouse already had his D paperwork ready to go in case my friend blurted everything out to her H. It actually gave my friend time to get an atty, and she and OBS spouse had the cheating spouses served one right after another by the PI, I think.

Don’t leave your house unless your atty tells you to, btw.

I wish I had the strength to just drop the hammer like you did. I am not there yet, but getting there. I almost wish he was mean to me, because then it would be easier to leave. The hard part for me is that I am his reality, he does still puts me front and center in his real life with is 90% of his life.

You will get there - at some point you will reach your limit. It took me 2 years...so it wasn't exactly fast. My WH was nice to me too during the A - such manipulation. You are stronger than you think - the day I had proof I blew it up. There is no way I could have handled acting for more than a few hours. Seriously - and things were not controlled all the time -they were straight up ugly sometimes.

Your will get there. The rest will come, and the outcome of all of it? No one knows. Just make you to look out for yourself!

I hope I can get through this. I am a bit parlayed. One minute I feel like we are good and we are going to make it because he is trying and being so nice to me and then I remember that he has a whole secret life in his phone with her. We had a good weekend, but I know it is part-fiction and part reality. I know they are still texting and calling. He said to her the other day that he was frustrated and she said 'i am sorry you are so frustrated and that I have complicated your life' She is not sorry for any of it and not going away. He has been with me almost 24/7 for 3 weeks because I am NOT doing a good job of 180, but I assume they will plan to meet up at some point as soon as they get a window. For them, distance is making the heart grow fonder.

I keep trying to focus on myself, but there are twinges of crazy mixed in (surveillance etc). I still want to hold my cards close to my chest because I am not yet ready to blow this thing up. Even if my marriage is a fraud, for some reason I am still clinging to it. Which is why the exit plan is so important, but it seems so daunting. I am getting a separate storage unit where I am going to start putting things little by little. If I add to it every day, I will start to feel lighter. When I do confront, I plan to have the D papers, the email ready to go to everyone in his life, and hopefully everything I care about out of the house and in storage. I will have a short-term rental lined up. I also need to find out if I should stay in the house, which is a lawyer question.

That said, I am trying to turn a tiny corner on him, I will admit. I look at him in a different way now, like he is a monster of a human being, capable of very bad things. I keep trying to focus on his flaws and the things that I don't like about him but its hard. I mean, I did marry the guy so I did/do love him. One day it will feel good to tell the world who he really is, but I need to be more emotionally detached than I am now - I am still in too deep. I am hoping my new IC will have some solution to get me over this hump.

One minute I feel like we are good and we are going to make it because he is trying and being so nice to me and then I remember that he has a whole secret life in his phone with her. We had a good weekend, but I know it is part-fiction and part reality.

I recall feeling this way too - really I did. But in hindsight it's all part and parcel of the pick me game too. The reality is - and it's the reality I had to accept (and my WH has since admitted) - none of it was "real" for him. Not really real. You have a good weekend because your WH is playing you to keep the status quo. He says all the things he says to her to keep the status quo, because he doesn't want anything to change.

Sadly, hoping he will tire of her or see you in some fantastic light that makes him "want you" isn't going to happen most likely. Sometime inbetween d-day 1 and 2 my WH and I were out to dinner (for his birthday of all things) and we had a "great" night and something happened with a homeless guy on the street who I ran to help and my WH was so gushy about what a great person I am and how much he loved me blah blah blah - and he messaged his AP while I was in the bathroom when we got home. Sigh. None of their behavior is real in the way that matters - in relation to your relationship - it just can't be. IMO we, the BS, just become part of the fantasy - the anchor/the commitments keeping them from leading their "best" lives - part of the Shakespearean tragedy they create in their heads.

A good friend of mine - I have known for years - had a 1 year A with a married co-worker. She echoed the same sentiments I describe above as did my WH. It's all fantasy land. Not likely that everything your WH is doing with you and with her is totally designed to manipulate but it's all part of the game. (Yeah, my WH has referred to it as a game before - the game of not getting caught - the game of keeping it going even when he wasn't sure he wanted to keep anything going anymore).

And you already provided evidence of how unreal it all is:

He said to her the other day that he was frustrated and she said 'i am sorry you are so frustrated and that I have complicated your life'

IF he really was so concerned about how frustrated she is - if she was the love he could not live without - he would un-frustrate her life right now and leave you. Period. What is more time going to do for his situation exactly?

Instead he's playing all is wonderful with you AND letting her think he is miserable? Why? Because he gets to be the victim with her and placate her at the same time. With you he keeps you from finding out - from blowing it all up and making his life at home a total nightmare. He can't control what you do if you find out - he's better served controlling her as it's much easier - she has already acquiesced to this arrangement. I think because like my WH he likes the fantasy but is scared to give up what he has and/or scared of confrontation generally. My WH said that after awhile on some days he did not want to talk to AP - it was all just too much work. But but but, he always did, because he had to keep up the charade - for me, for her, for himself. Leading a double life is freaking tiring - exhausting even. My WH was so upset when I blew it up - but he was also relieved. Not because he thought he could be rid of AP and stop playing - but because he could stop pretending and lying - to me, about what had happened. After confrontation - after d-day 2 where I told the OBS - and he went NC with her (and remained so for about 3 months) after 2 days of not much sleep, my WH slept and slept and slept (which pissed me off to no end) because he didn't have to lie to anyone or pretend. He could just wallow in the misery he had made of his life.

And then when he went back for A part 3, he still lied to her - even more than before really - and went back to lying to me again...so it all just kept going but he couldn't keep it up - he did a shit job of hiding things, not because he wanted to be caught again, but because it was all too much. It was easy for me to tell, and it was way easy for me to move forward with my plans of leaving. I went into investigation mode from like 30 minutes - found what I needed - and didn't even care about the rest.

I'm not saying your WH will do the same - most WS do not continue the active affair as quickly as mine did, or for as long. For many the A coming to light blows things up to the point they don't go back. Unfortunately for some they end up like mine, or the WS leaves the BS...but it's really not all that unfortunate. You - in all honestly - don't want the person your WH is now. And you don't want the person your WS was before the A either - someone who is capable of looking you in the eyes and lying to you - purposefully trying to manipulate you and trick you. Yuck. Who wants that? What you do want is either a better version of your WS, that is going to have to come with a lot of effort on his part and yours - or you want to be free to find someone who treats you the way you deserve to be treated.

Don't be afraid of the outcome with your WH. You can't know it AND you can't control it anyway. That's why putting yourself first and making your plan is the best possible move - for you.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:33 PM, Monday, July 31st]