SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"Based on what you have told us he would have readily gone to bed with her given the opportunity. He has clearly indicated on multiple occasions that he is incapable of fidelity. You said you don't want to break up with him over something that has not happened but an affair has happened

He took concrete steps to figure out a way to sleep with his manager. You caught him cheating, gave him a second chance, he did it again, why continue giving him chances? You are only enabling his behavior because there are no consequences

You have shown him that he can cheat and the worst that happens is you get upset yet you will stay. His behavior will only escalate."

What were the concrete steps he took to have an affair with his manager? He didn't ask chatgpt tips to cheat. I never caught him physically cheating only emotionally.the consequence he just experienced was me finally kicking him out of my apartment.

What were the concrete steps he took to have an affair with his manager? He didn't ask chatgpt tips to cheat. I never caught him physically cheating only emotionally.the consequence he just experienced was me finally kicking him out of my apartment

.

Look I see you have a distorted picture of what cheating means.

Apparently seems you would not consider cheating until you surprise him in bed with another woman.
That’s not how it is going to happen, reality is not like a Netflix show.

Betrayal is very simple: you’re mutually committed as a couple, that means honesty, trust and exclusivity. Necessary to build a future together.

When a partner is attracted to an OP, is cheating.

It’s cheating no matter what:
- emotional
- just a kiss
- Just some foreplay
- just oral
- just the tip
- just with condom
- just one night stand
- short term affair
- long term affair

Many betrayed partners will climb over glass walls to excuse their wayward partner with "is not cheating until # pick position on the scale# ".

Reality is there is no better or worse, it’s cheating, betrayal from the first to the last.

The justification is called "minimization " and has the sole purpose to gaslight you, the betrayed partner.

He already gaslights you, don’t do that to yourself, you know is bad and he hurled you

He claims he never would have physically cheated.

This is a standard thing cheaters say. This is typical right sweeping, avoidance, "I did nothing wrong" cheater mentality.

Just to give you an idea, here are other things cheaters typically say:

It’s not what it looks like. Hmmmm it looks like you are cheating.

We didn’t have sex. Hmmmmm define sex. You were both in bed naked but no sex? Please…..

It didn’t mean anything. Hmmmm good to know you broke my heart for something that meant nothing.

I don’t love him/her. Again, cheating occurred so does it matter if you "love" the affair partner?

It only happened once. Hmmmmm another lie.

I swear on my kids’ lives I didn’t cheat. How often do we hear that and believe it? Too often when in fact it’s just a cheater’s self serving behavior to deflect blame from their actions.

You don’t have to break up with him or end the relationship. You seem to be of the opinion that he didn’t cheat. And that’s your decision to make.

Can people change? Absolutely. But only if they want to.

Your BF should be showing you signs that he understands the trauma and hurt he brought you and what changes he is willing to make to endure it doesn’t happen again.

I said so you thought I'd be there if you cheated? He said no I just thought that if I did stuff like this which isn't as bad as actually going out cheating that you would stick by me and nothing would really happen.

Is he right?

When a partner is attracted to an OP, is cheating.

This isn't cheating. We're all attracted to other people many times during our lives. Attraction isn't cheating unless it's acted upon.

That being said, a boyfriend who shows any red flags needs to be kicked to the curb. He's just a boyfriend. There will be others.

This isn't cheating. We're all attracted to other people many times during our lives. Attraction isn't cheating unless it's acted upon.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

This isn't cheating. We're all attracted to other people many times during our lives. Attraction isn't cheating unless it's acted upon.

Coco, when you are single you feel sexual attraction for someone this is fine. It is a potential relationship, whether you pursue it or not, you want this person the moment you feel attraction for them.

Like everything else in our life, when you have something that fulfills you, you feel no need to replace it with a similar thing.
If your plate is full you have no need to eat from someone else's dish, if you crave it then it's time to question why your plate feels empty.

Thinking isn't criminal. Through the last 6 decades, I've met a number of women I'm sure I'd have approached if I weren't already committed. Despite being attracted to others, I never wished I were single after committing to W2b.

I feel no guilt for that. In fact, I am happy to know there are lots of compelling, sexy women out there. I've worked with women who attracte me

I found the 1st few weeks after our wedding very difficult. We lived on a(n urban) college campus, and I realized that the problem I had with dating was that it couldn't be as intimate as I wanted. Surrounded by college girls in Summer clothes, I was going crazy until I understood that I could acknowledge attraction without pursuing the attractive person, except as a potential friend, and that the number of relationships was very different from depth of a relationship.

From time to time, someone on SI asks if BSes would marry their Ws even if they knew what the future was going to bring. I know there are other great partners out there. Even so, I'd marry W my again.

*****

A number of people assert that the drive for sex is very closely aligned with the drive to create.

I was a consultant with Big Time Consulting (RIP James Sanchez) for many years. On several projects I worked with or for women I found attractive. IMO, the the outcomes of those projects were probably better because the sexual energy heightened the creative energy.

Eric Berne sees a number of benign games people play (Games People Play, public domain) - Cavalier (played by a man and a woman), Happy to Help, etc.

Sexual tension is essential to the process of maturing (consider the 'Oedipal' stage). SI deals with the frequent unhealthy, unproductive misuse of sex, but sex can be used in healthy, productive ways without betraying anyone.

We human beings can use our energy to fuck up anything, but we can use the same drives and resources to create beauty and health.

*****

I realize this is a minority view. SI in itself is evidence that many people are unable to handle sexual attraction.

But I'm arguing it's people's (Bses, WSes, and people not (yet) affected by infidelity) unwillingness to be honest with themselves about sexual attraction, not the sexual attraction itself.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:47 PM, Sunday, February 1st]

If your plate is full you have no need to eat from someone else's dish

You're saying that you never found anyone else attractive after you were in a committed relationship? I call bullshit! It's normal and natural to find multiple people attractive for various reasons throughout a lifetime, whether committed or not. You may be very good at suppressing those feelings, which is what one should do when in a committed relationship. That doesn't mean you don't have them.

I used to find Johnny Depp extremely attractive. I recently saw LL Cool J in a documentary. I swear he hasn't aged a bit. I googled him. Damn! He is fine! The man that hit on me in the grocery parking lot last summer wasn't bad looking. I just laughed at him. I do find that, as I get older, less and less people are attractive to me.

I do find that, as I get older, less and less people are attractive to me.

You know, same here. There were times in the past I found myself actively resisting urges, but not really so much anymore. I still occasionally see other women who I think are attractive, but it's not accompanied by an urge to flirt or want to get to know them better.

I still think my wife is very pretty tho, and I'm happy I don't have to resist any urges with her!

I think the reason we have vows, and promises, and ceremonies, etc. is in recognition that we are going to be attracted to others, and to remind us not to act on those attractions, strengthen our resolve.

If marriage somehow turned off getting attracted, we wouldn’t need all the hoopla.

You're saying that you never found anyone else attractive after you were in a committed relationship? I call bullshit! It's normal and natural to find multiple people attractive for various reasons throughout a lifetime, whether committed or not. You may be very good at suppressing those feelings, which is what one should do when in a committed relationship. That doesn't mean you don't have them.

Absolutely yes.

I had 3 relationships + 1 trauma bond.

When I commit to a girl, the others disappear.

I can tell if a girl is pretty but is detached, there is no attraction, no matter how open or flirty she might be.

It's very personal, when I was not ready to commit I spent my time with different girls, I enjoyed the company but I was open there is no exclusivity.

The rare occasions I felt something for a girl I immediately dropped all others.

I do not know what is strange in this, when you find a person that fits you the need to look around disappears.

I think the reason we have vows, and promises, and ceremonies, etc. is in recognition that we are going to be attracted to others, and to remind us not to act on those attractions, strengthen our resolve.

If marriage somehow turned off getting attracted, we wouldn’t need all the hoopla.

For me marriage is simply a formality, to realize the dream of the girl I love.
It has some legal benefits that are practical, but the vows and ceremony are stating the obvious.

You commit to the person that best fits your life, is not transactional, it's natural

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 11:00 PM, Sunday, February 1st]

Hey, Back. You've posted a lot about your loyalty to your current GF/W and the years you wasted because of it.

Is it time to consider examining your beliefs to find out which have worked for you and which haven't? You get to choose whether you do that or not, but that sort of examination often leads to improving one's life.

*****

Some years ago I found myself attracted to a star who was 15 years old when she played the role in the movie I was watching - in my mid-70s. In my defense, I was NOT aware of her age when I 'fell' for her. W & I shrugged that off, since both knew it was fantasy, and neither of us think thoughts are criminal. I'm still ashamed/embarrassed about it, though.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:44 PM, Monday, February 2nd]

I can tell if a girl is pretty but is detached, there is no attraction, no matter how open or flirty she might be.

Maybe we have slightly different definitions of attraction. As I've said, I've seen/met my share of people I thought were attractive after I got married. I wasn't interested in them. I didn't consider pursuing any kind of relationship with them. I don't flirt. I didn't have to fight any urges. I just thought they were attractive. Finding various people attractive, whether committed or not, is a biological instinct. Biologically and evolutionarily, humans are not meant to be monogamous. We are meant to procreate with as many different people as possible in order to pass on our genes and (I can't think of the word for making something the most likely) ensure survival. For the most part, we can't just turn that off.

I think I get what you're saying. Once you are committed, you're not interested in other people, regardless of their attractiveness. That's pretty much the same thing I'm saying. I, too, don't think M is necessary for that kind of commitment. I didn't want to get married when I was dating my H. He insisted because of his catholic upbringing. Whatever. There are some positive legal reasons for marriage, but I didn't need the formality to know that I was committed.

Maybe we have slightly different definitions of attraction. As I've said, I've seen/met my share of people I thought were attractive after I got married. I wasn't interested in them. I didn't consider pursuing any kind of relationship with them. I don't flirt. I didn't have to fight any urges. I just thought they were attractive. Finding various people attractive, whether committed or not, is a biological instinct.

Words have meaning, they are similar but vastly different:

- Being / finding someone attractive -> judging the person 'virtues', the ability to assess the other gender's qualities (or same gender too, we can usually judge attractiveness)

- Being attracted -> feeling a sexual pull towards the person. Wanting to mate, instinctively.

IN my family we are lucky with appearance, I have 2 female cousins, one is very beautiful.

I can tell she is attractive (she built her livelihood around that). I am NOT attracted to her (that would be messed up).

I have some attractive male family members too. I am NOT attracted to any of them.

That is the difference and the true meaning of the definitions.

More than a biological instinct is a biological skill, the instinct is the one promoting the pull towards mating (in this case).

Biologically and evolutionarily, humans are not meant to be monogamous. We are meant to procreate with as many different people as possible in order to pass on our genes and (I can't think of the word for making something the most likely) ensure survival. For the most part, we can't just turn that off.

It is not entirely true: is true that we are physically wired for genetic biodiversity, that is a successful evolutionary trait. It's not true we are polygamous or monogamous, we are neither:

- Monogamy is the most reliable survival strategy for your genes, it raises the chances of the offspring to survive as they are taken care and create the potentially most solid unit in human society (family). It's not a curse, it's a blessing.

- Polygamy gives a chance of survival when you do not have a family unit, so for isolated individuals is a advantageous tactic (think singles ) to A) audit and find a reliable life partner [most successful survival strategy - family] like job interviewing or B) try anyway to pass on your genes if the option A) failed. [better than nothing] - by the way, dopamine honeymoon high lasts from few weeks to about 2 years, it's a chemical "love feeling" that fades, nature scripted it for us to procreate even if we do not match with the partner, so you get a child or 2 then you split to search for someone else.

Both strategies have also their "drawbacks"

- Monogamy carries the risk of losing your life partner, that's why we feel family as an extension of ourselves and loss of beloved ones is tragic

- Polygamy carries the risks to health and survival (diseases chance skyrockets), and often challenges the area of other people (think betrayal and cheating), which for our ancestors meant often being killed or hunted down (think how many societies punished adultery brutally, often by death). In fact except some leaders in some societies and cultures, polygamy was never seen as "good". It was the losers' only option to try to procreate, and usually polygamous people end up alone (even today) because nobody wants to trust them in a monogamous relationship.

I think I get what you're saying. Once you are committed, you're not interested in other people, regardless of their attractiveness. That's pretty much the same thing I'm saying. I, too, don't think M is necessary for that kind of commitment. I didn't want to get married when I was dating my H. He insisted because of his catholic upbringing. Whatever. There are some positive legal reasons for marriage, but I didn't need the formality to know that I was committed.

Exactly, I don't commit easily. I was one of the worst example of "polygamous losers" around. Plenty of girls, not one I felt to commit with. It's paradoxically pretty lonely, sure you may argue variety is fun... only in the short term, gets old pretty fast, you feel the need for something more fulfilling, a person you can share true intimacy.

So when I found a girl that met my needs, I lost attraction for all other women, no matter how attractive they might be, interest drops to zero. There is no temptation not even when the other person really tries to just "get you", it is no longer exciting it becomes awkward.

You may argue that my choice in matter of women is poor, since 3 out of 3 girlfriends cheated on me. And you'd be right. Still no matter what they did my loyalty was absolute, I just don't feel the need for another woman when I am committed. I "marry" without the ceremony, for me as well is just a formality.

Feeling attraction for other women is a clear sign that my relationship with my partner is broken, that something is terribly wrong or that love is gone.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 10:25 PM, Monday, February 2nd]