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When you as a WS see your destruction of your BS and the impact of your betrayal when your betrayed spouse takes you back and decides to work on the marriage do you have respect for the BS?

I cannot begin to find words to describe my respect for, and gratitude towards, my husband. It always breaks my heart when I read the advice to new BS that if you give a WS a chance at R, they'll just feel a secret contempt for your weakness. I guess that does happen in some cases, but for myself, I know exactly how much strength it took my husband to risk trusting me again. I'm aware of the mind movies he's had to face down, over and over. I know how hard he's had to work to re-forge his self-esteem. I'm floored by the compassion and love he's shown me in my own struggles.

I don't feel proud about it at all. I feel lucky, and sometimes frightened. R is a huge thing for me to ask from him after years of lying, and I don't want to fuck it up.

Thank you. I would hope there would be respect and gratitude.

I am looking for insights from WS . For those of you who were drinking at least 8-10 alcohol drinks per day, with the AP, how did this addiction impact your relationship with your AP?

Did the alcohol give you courage, did it give you a high, did it make you feel invincible? Did it mask your guilt? Did it make you talk without inhibitions? Did it make you feel happy? What on earth did it do for you?

Notaboringwife,

I never thought of myself as being an alcoholic, until I realized I was one day after adding up a bunch of receipts I had in my wallet. Yeah, I was a functioning alcoholic and a mellow soul while under the influence so no one ever complained. But when you realize one that my life revolves around drinking, well.....I quit 4 years ago.

So I did drink with my AP, and I drank at home - all to feel something, or not, depending on the mood.

Here is the simple truth - drinking was an escape no different than my A was an escape.

Here is another truth - for all guys, and I mean ALL guys, drinking affects performance. Period.

What drinking does do, is allow you to make an excuse for your behaviour.

To quote a better author:

it provokes, and unprovokes; it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance;

I abused myself in many ways during my affair. Alcohol was only one of them.

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 5:21 PM, October 19th (Monday)]

A question for WH about thoughts about the OW when masturbating , I hope this is ok?

During my husbands most recent affair with a work colleague that lasted 18 months, he claims that the relationship did not get physical.

However, he didn’t have sexual contact with me during that time and claims to have been ‘looking after himself’ via masturbation.

On searching his computer history I found a large number of porn searches over the course of our marriage. But this stopped completely approximately 6 months into his EA. When I challenged him on this he said he hadn’t had sexual contact with the OW, so I asked if he thought about her whilst masturbating. He again says no. Can this be true? Do men just do the physical act of masturbation and not use images or thoughts to ‘help’ the process?

Can I believe him that he coincidentally stopped using porn when things became more intense with the OW?

I find it all difficult to believe and it is a sticking point for continued healing.

All responses great fully accepted.

drinking affects performance. Period.

What drinking does do, is allow you to make an excuse for your behaviour.

it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance;

Thank you for sharing...

My husband has acknowledged the impact of alcohol drinking on his performance with AP. ED problems. Took viagra when with AP.

But, he did not acknowledge the same ED problems he had with me pre and during his affair. Actually during the affair, he blamed me for being boring in bed, as the reason for his ED. I guess that related to making excuses for his behaviour while under the influence.

He has now has one drink on special occasions which he shares with me.

Drinking and affairs are forms of escape. To feel something or not. I see that now.

timeforhelp,

Do men just do the physical act of masturbation and not use images or thoughts to ‘help’ the process?

Can I believe him that he coincidentally stopped using porn when things became more intense with the OW?

I find it all difficult to believe and it is a sticking point for continued healing.

There's a lot to unpack in that. So I will try to offer up some thoughts but it may be NSFW at points....

Back when I was a teenager, the bus going over a bump in the road was enough to get me going...Sadly it takes more than that nowadays.

Masturbation - most people don't like to talk about it though. So for me I need to make up all sorts of fantasy scenarios or watch some porn which really helps. Do I want to share what my fantasy scenarios are with my wife? Not really.

Do I really want to admit that I had a fantasy scenario with my wife and her friend? or maybe the 20 something cashier at the grocery store, or the older lady we saw at the restaurant. I think you get my point. Fantasies are fine so long as that is all they are.

During my A, sure I masturbated thinking about my AP. I think it is natural to take a real life situation and make it into something more.

I wouldn't doubt either that his AP was sexting or doing video porn with him. I'd be surprised if she didn't.

I know for myself, as my sexual activity decreased before my A that my porn use ramped up.

What do you fantasize about when you masturbate, or when you are being pleasured by your H? I'm not asking you to answer me - I am pointing out the private nature of it. Do you want to tell your H that you think about the pool boy, or that you think about being dominated by a muscle bound woman all the while you two are intimate? I think you get my point.

Unless you two have had conversations like this in the past it can be a hard thing to get into (sorry for the pun), less so when it is in a confrontational situation.

My wife and I have healthy conversations about our sex life now, and that includes some role play or fantasy, but I never ask her what she fantasizes about unless she wants to discuss it first.

I think however, your sticking point could be mis-directed. Is it you are concerned about how much emotional capital he had invested in the AP?

More uncomfortable sharing.

H was all about compartmentalising.

He says he never thought about me when he was with her,especially during sex, never thought about her when with me, and has never compared us in any way. I find that extremely hard to believe.

I honestly only ever think about him in my fantasies and during intimacy.

He has now been with two partners, which means twice the number of people I have. I have no historical experience to compare this to.

Is it really possible that he a, never crossed thoughts and b, never compared?

Sorry about the uncomfortable question - thanks in advance.

Lemonspearmint,

I see a lot more men that are better at compartmentalizing than women. I was/am pretty good at it as well with a lot of things.

For whatever reason my AP ended up being almost the opposite of my BW - taller, a bit heavier, etc. So no comparison. Fact is my wife is much more attractive (the old affair down thingy), but that is beside my point here.

I explained to my wife it was like taking off a pair of running shoes and putting them in a box and then putting on a pair of oxfords - two completely different things and you wouldn't compare them.

I can say I never thought of my AP when being intimate with my BW - that would have seemed wrong somehow. And vice versa. You had to separate the two to keep from seeing what a piece of shit you were were being.

I think the extent of my comparison at the time was the realization that my AP is not my BW.

Did you fall back in love with your BS during R if you ever fell out of love? And while it was happening did you battle guilt and shame in what you had done?

Thank you so much MrCleanSlate.

Your answer is pretty much exactly how H described it.

Having that backed up by you brings me such a sense of relief and grattitude.

On DDay, OBS sent me one of WH/AP's sext messages. My WH told her "I adore you". I miss the taste of you, the feel of you... you get the gist . I have asked him many times if he meant those things. I also asked him why has he never been poetic that way with me. He simply gets aggravated about having to talk about and diverts my attention so he never actually answers the question. I sometime text him during the day to initiate a similar response from him. I am always disappointed. Am I not worthy? WS can you please help me to understand?

My question: Do you or your BS ever look up the AP or the OBS online/social media? If so, do you talk to each other about it? And if not, would you want your BS to tell you something about the AP?

To be more specific, I check in on AP and her OBS. I really do it to feel like I have control over the situation (I know this isn't healthy, but so be it.) My WH knew that I did this occasionally, only because I warned him that she might be coming into the office (she had quit but had not left town for her job yet and I just had a feeling that she would - and SHE DID!). In the same vein, she has now changed jobs. There is an office here. Not one in the state she moved to. Not sure if that means she'll come back or since COVID made remote easier, she'll stay far away. I usually tell WH everything and am open about my anxieties, but this is one of those things that is hard to bring up. I feel like a lunatic for still digging for info on her, and I also don't want to give her a reason to go into his mind (he would say that it doesn't matter, that he doesn't think about her unless I bring her up).

So what you you prefer your BS to do in my situation? My best friend said to tell him so that he can be a comfort for the anxiety. But ugh. I just hate that she takes up space in my head EVER.

TX,

I personally only ever looked up the AP on google once. That was about 2 years ago. That had to do with some odd emails and phone calls to my work (my AP stalked us for a bit after D-Day) I was concerned she may have relocated close to me since we had moved.

My BW did troll her a bit in the first few months and then she changed tactic - my BW locked down her FB but would post happy photos of the 2 of us on the public photo, with a new one every few days. Sort of my BW's way of giving the AP the finger.

Maybe you need to find a way to change tactics as well.

BTW - I suspect an awful lot of BS/WS troll the AP's out of fear more than anything.

Betrayed,

A lot of waywards will have said or done things during the A that afterwards they are very ashamed or regretful of - I know I did.

I also asked him why has he never been poetic that way with me. He simply gets aggravated about having to talk about and diverts my attention so he never actually answers the question.

I sometime text him during the day to initiate a similar response from him. I am always disappointed. Am I not worthy?

I bolded two things you wrote - they are intertwined. It may well be he is too afraid to sext or get into a banter for fear of the unresolved conflict of the texts with AP that you two have.

In my case I would have so loved if my BW had sent me any provocative texts prior to D-Day. I made a few half hearted attempts but never spoke to her about it and there it languished and I blamed my BW as part of my A reasoning.

Same goes after D-Day. I was hesitant to engage my BW - will she trigger? etc.

We actually spent some time, ok a lot of time, talking about this in MC. My BW would send me some selfies. She then encouraged me to respond. She kind of led the convo at first. I became more comfortable and we have developed our own sort of banter. And yes I do she her selfies too - she seems to prefer me in work boots. What i did realize is that my BW just wanted me to show her she was desired - but I needed her to almost hit me over the head with a 2x4 to get me to understand that.

How much talking do you to do about this - I mean real communicating?

That makes sense - Cleanslate. We don't talk as much as we should. I push and he tries for a little while but gets frustrated. He says I take everything he says wrong so he is better off not saying anthing at all. We should be trying to have these conversations with a professional but he won't. I know his reasons and try to understand. Personal experience caused him to not trust them.

You are probably right on both points. He says he never thinks about the affair until I bring it up so probably isn't thinking that I need him to validate my desirability. Probably not thinking about triggering me because he does that alot. He does turn off triggering shows and songs though. Thanks so much for helping me with this!

TX,

I had online affairs, so the use of social media is a big no go area for me. The exception is Linked in and Facebook, but with now very limited safe friends. Part of the agreement we have is I do not look up APs or people associated with them. I feel this is a good idea and have no interest in looking.

My BS does look occasionally, I was very much against this at first as I saw it as unhealthy and not stepping away from my affairs. However, I do see it differently now. It offers BS some comfort to know things about them and that one has moved away from our hometown. Additionally it had shown her recently that life for one of them is not great due to business failings and two people associated with former AP have recently split up. We did discuss what BS reads and I think this helps a little with her recovery,

WS

What made you choose that particular AP?

The OM was someone I would have wanted to date ethically if I had been free. He was funny, nerdy, and charming in a self-deprecating way, which I found attractive. He was also in love with his best friend's girlfriend; both of them had expressed interest in her, and she picked the friend. I thought that this made him low risk for me. He was in love with someone else, I was in love with someone else, this wouldn't get serious, so no one would get hurt. It was your basic compartmentalized, stupid, selfish logic.