SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m going back to what Sisoon was getting to:
What is it you are trying to save?

If it’s your "family" as in remaining as one unit with your wife and your son... well... don’t do anything. Just try to keep her from divorcing for half a year or so. That’s the time I’m giving this affair. That way – say once you two run out of Airbnb funds... – she will come back and with time the professor will move on and after a year or two of grumpiness and "I wish I could leave" she might be sort-of-semi-wife-you-always-wanted.
In plainer words: Accept sharing your wife for now, and maybe until next time. Use the time in-between affairs to attempt to fix whatever you two is wrong with "you" that makes her have to cheat.

Keep this in mind: Colleges and universities tend to have a very strong "don’t screw the students" rule. This includes unusual or intense emotional connections. I’m a former cop, and as a cop I had to refuse all offers for "free" stuff. Even simple things like a free coffee or a heavy discount on a car or something that could possibly be used to show I was corrupt. For a teacher – especially teaching people close to his/her age – this includes things like going to dinner with one, accepting favors, dating and all that. I am 100% certain that this teacher is breaking policy...
I also know it’s more common that most think. The stereoclassic radical pipe-smoking lecturer that is having it on with the seeking younger grad-student. Usually lasts a semester or two, because it’s the nature of education that students move on but teachers remain. Chances are your wife’s beau already has one or two in the year behind your wife for next semester...

Now...
What is it you really want?

If you are hanging on to "save my family" using your methods to-date... Well... you won’t.
Your wife will file. Possibly once her immigration is set, but I’m also thinking there are ways she can overcome that. Ranging from marrying OM (which she might thing realistic but either OM is already married or has no plans beyond giving your WW a passing grade...) or she can claim she’s divorcing for abuse or whatever. If she wants to D and wants the correct stamp in her paper – she can.

But if you really want to save your family...
It’s action.
Action that definitely at first might sound counterproductive...

Like telling your wife this:
"Wife. I really want to save our marriage and I think we could if we both really wanted that. However there are two things I won’t do. The first is to stand in the way of your happiness. If you think Professor Dumble is the one for you... go for it girl! Find your happiness! The second thing I don’t do is share my wife.
As is that’s what you are offering me – that I share you.
Well... I don’t share.
You are totally free to be with OM, date OM, visit with OM, move in with OM... whatever. But not as my wife. I am therefore absolving you of all expectations. Go be free.
I will initiate the process of legally terminating our marriage. There are laws and procedures and we will stick to them so both get a fair result. I suggest you gather information on the process so we can both do this amicably and quickly.
I do ask that you keep OM away from our son, and out of our house. I would appreciate discresson around me.
This isn’t what I want, but it’s the best option I have. If you have any doubts there is a very short window where I would be willing to pause the process, but that would require you meet several requirements that would be necessary for our marriage. Just keep in mind the further along I go the more content I will be with my decission".

And then you move on. No more marriage talk. The ONLY WAY you either participate in divorce or marital talk is if a formal decision has been made on either. Like if she starts talking about custody: This is something my attorney will address. I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to make rational decision on this subject, plus I’m not 100% clear on the law".
She asks about the immigration status "Check with your attorney. I won’t stand in the way of you getting your documents, but I won’t pause my quest for life-happiness for you."
She tells you the reason she cheated was your bad breath (or whatever): "Sorry you feel that way. If we were committed to the marriage then we could bring this up in MC. However, since you have chosen your affair over us then there isn’t any reason to go there."

And then go on with life... Start researching divorce, find an attorney... start the process within a week or two if she hasn’t made any change.

PLUS:
Contact the center of education. Call as high up as you can – the dean, the dean of the department she’s studying at, the head of HR...
"I think you need to know that my wife – a student at your institution – and I are divorcing because of her relationship with professor sleazy. No – she hasn’t told me its physical but admits there is an emotional connection and I know they have spent time together outside of class in private places. I think with what I have shared and the simple fact I called should be enough for you to research if this is in any breach with your ethical codes."

Remain factual – don’t share how you know... Just make that call and make that statement...
If your wife calls you a few hours later completely pissed... well... you then know she just got the Dear John treatment from her lover.

If anything view this as a favor: You are allowing her the option of possibly divorcing you from a position of truth. Maybe Prof will confirm their relationship. Maybe he isn’t married (but why not go to his place?). Maybe she can quit school and they get married and be happy forever... But I would place 8/10 odds he get’s a stern talking to and dumps her to save his marriage and his job...

Finally: I want to dispel some of your "comforts": Single residency AirBnB’s generally only apply to residents – as in sleeping over. Visitors are allowed, plus the monitoring is based on owner presence.
Wouldn’t be the first couple to have sex in a car.
Have plenty – plenty of opportunities to have sex or be together all over the place.
Why not his house? Maybe because his wife might not like his girlfriend?

I was a victim of my WH repeatedly denying that he was seeing the AP after I caught his affair. He lied ALL THE TIME about it. Like every single day, and admitted nothing ever, until caught, and by caught I mean red handed (I recorded one of their calls which clearly established both that they were indeed in constant communication, that it had been going on for a long time, and that they had no intention of it stopping).

My WH has since told me he broke off contact with the AP without my knowledge multiple times, but kept going back anyway. He would definitely have taken the opportunity to find a way to be alone with the AP were I out of town. In your case, I am with HikingOut - I too do not frequently make accusations about what I believe WS's are up to on here, but it seems to me that it is highly unlikely there is nothing else going on from the things you have seen.

It also appears to me that based on your son's reactions that you don't have the luxury of time here. My WH and I have no children together (and his child did not live with us) so my staying, sticking around wanting to believe him, hurt me and only me. In your case I think your son deserves to have some stability - which is not what he's getting right now. As a child I had to live though what you son is living through now and the BEST thing my parents did was finally to separate - it gave me a chance to find my way in the new normal as opposed to living through the stress of my parent's situation. And I was not nearly as aware something was wrong as it seems your son is. IMO if you want to protect your child you can't wait to do something as the situation is untenable as it stands. And, the burden has to be on your WS to make things right with both you and him. The fact she is doing this to her child is the strongest evidence to me that she is wrapped up in a lot more than you know.

Make a plan to get you and your son out of infidelity. If she wants to make things work then make her work for it. Giving her a few weeks "space" is like giving her a reward for her shitty behavior. I don't think it will have the effect you hope for.

I missed this:

We're currently at the final steps of the immigration process and if we divorce she'll have to depart from the country which makes thing more complicated.

I think you absolutely must, like right now, separate at least. Let her know she does not have a home to come back to while she wants to behave like this (and find out legally what you need to do to separate - can you afford to move out? Talk to a lawyer NOW and find out what is the best situation for you and her to no longer reside in the same home - and to the extent you are concerned about money, find out about that from a lawyer as well. But honestly you MUST get your son out of this situation now...) I often wondered why my WH didn't just leave me when the A was going on - but in your case...gosh it seems like such a real motive for her to continue this nonsense.

And, with her citizenship on the line she is still persisting in this behavior? You have ALL the answers you need. Who cares if it's "love" or not? For your purposes it makes no difference. My WH and AP also thought they were soul mates and had this endless, perfect, undying love. Needless to say AP and the OBS divorced about 3 years ago. My WH and AP did not end up together and their A ended. WH and I also divorced. Yet again, they did not end up together despite all of their mutual love-bombing. Instead, they just blew each other up. (Yes, WH and I still date casually now, but I bought my own place and have my own life and I feel SO MUCH BETTER).

You have leverage that most of us do not have - I say use it. Rip off the bandaid - her A has real and very negative consequences for her that most WSs don't have to deal with. Make her deal with it NOW for you and for your son.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 4:11 PM, Friday, May 31st]

May28,

You are asking for advice.

I agree with grubs that you should be honest with your son. He's aware. It's extremely healthy that he is stating his preference with how he wants to interact with your wife. Honor that as much as you can.

Do not let your wife come and go in your home and play happy family when she wants. If you want to give her space and find herself, she also must realize that you and your son will move on too! Your wife says she wants to prepare your son's favorite meals and what not. She can do that elsewhere and deliver when you permit her with previous notice. That's fine. It's no longer her home if she is living elsewhere. Maybe that sounds harsh. Even if you want her around at times, and I totally understand that feeling. It's for the mental health of your son to draw a boundary here. He's saying he doesn't appreciate that. Be strong. It will also force her to figure out what she wants and freaking decide.

Your wife can make time and a place to be with her son. I agree that it's not right or normal that she is separating and not doing that. I did separate multiple times. I was a BS. I left my home. My children always, ALWAYS, knew what I was doing and had a way to come and be with me and see my location and contact me.

Bigger,

Maybe this is an aside maybe. I don't know. I believe your position of college students and instructors/professors interaction is either outdated or maybe never existed in my experience. I'm in my late 50s and have been in and out of higher-ed for a while.

Relevant to this context, this person is in their mid-30s. Both parties are adults. This is not necessarily considered a situation. Don't know if that's applicable, but it's a long-held belief.

I do understand and am aware that in law enforcement and even department of defense contracting there are very specific rules. You may not be able to ride in the same car or have a colleague give you a gift including buying you a meal. It seems strict sometimes, never mind that the rules for senators/congressman/supreme court justices are entirely less strict.

It's not exactly the same in higher education. I agree it can be an issue. I'm just saying that reporting to someone, etc. is just not the same. It can be gross with the power differential, but there's a different ethic code. I am personally disgusted. I know many of my peers feel the same any time we see a relationship where there is a total age or other differential.

I believe Bigger is correct in his recommendation to contact the administration of the educational institution. I realize this type of behavior is extremely common and generally tolerated when no one complains. However, if someone does complain requesting that the complaint be investigated, that will absolutely result in sleazy being talked to. Especially if you state that you hope you will not be forced to take the matter to the Board of Trustees or governing body and/or to major charitable contributors. The purpose of doing this is to let AP know that his actions have consequences that may relate to his employment and reputation.

I recommend that May28 consult an attorney ASAP. He doesn't have to file, but he needs to get information regarding the procedures and what the likely outcome would be in a divorce. There also may be timing issues such as waiting until she has a job. Also preventing WW from leaving the country with his son if she was deported.

We're currently at the final steps of the immigration process and if we divorce she'll have to depart from the country which makes thing more complicated

If that is not a bargaining chip then I don’t know what it is. Let her know that affairs have consequences. The professor is not in this for a long term relationship. He could already be married or this is how he is each year with a new relationship every time. Actions have consequences.

Thank you all for your messages. I'll need to reread them and better process. For now I just want to clarify some unclear moments.

- She doesn't know that I can track location
- She can take him to Airbnb because only one registered guest is allowed and she's renting a room in a house
- I'm sure they never were together in our home because we have a security camera and I keep an eye on recordings regularly
- I'm pretty sure that this was the first time she broke NC, because I saw how her mood changed in the beginning of April after she told him that she wanted to stop contacts; and that her mood led me to reading her notes; and after the D-Day I mostly kept an eye on the situation
- The OP is not married, he doesn't have a car and is renting and apartment
- I promised her to give her these few weeks alone and I don't want to break my promise, she has about a week left there
- If I go full nuclear (report the professor, file for D, etc) knowing her personality I'm scared that it will only make things worse - she will return and maybe will be pretending that everything is fine, but then will leave as soon as she has a stable ground
- We'll have to have a conversation with our son, but I don't want to talk about anything 1) before she is back home and 2) before end of the school year (main reason, because they do testing etc)

She broke NC.

She chose her boyfriend over you. Plain and simple.

Why are you worried about breaking promises? She can’t even keep the most basic of not seeing her affair partner.

"Needing space" is double speak for "I want to be with my boyfriend without you interfering." I’ve lost count on how many cheaters use this line as an excuse to maximize time with AP. Happened to me as well.

She has already left you, literally. And again, she broke NC. Why do you think she did while not staying at your home? To gaze at the stairs with her boyfriend and talk whimsical about poetry?

Conversation is pointless with someone who is a proven liar.

I stand by my words about there being an ethical code regarding interactions between students and teachers.
Yes – as two adults they CAN date, but not as student and teacher. Teacher that – for example – has yet to grade her work. If she wasn’t in his class, if someone else evaluated her work... then yes it would probably be fine. But she is in his class. She is being graded by him.
Google "ethical codes for teachers in college or universities" and you will get several sites with the codes for various schools. The wording varies from indirect (have a teacher or guidance relationship with student) to quite direct (no romantic or sexual)...
It’s both an ethical issue, but also – just like in a business environment where a manager never dates a subordinate – can create a sexual harassment and conflict-of-interest situation for the school. Same manager can date Sue in accounting, as long as he isn’t her manager.

May – its your call... I think it strange that you can envision something worse for your marriage than your wife dating another man. But like I said: if your only goal is to remain married then let this run its course. Chances are he will tire of her. Good luck, because frankly luck is the only thing you are relying on.

Bigger is right about university policies about faculty dating students. In the past 10 years many schools have explicitly banned faculty/student relationships. My husband and I both work for different universities and they both have recently developed policies that forbid faculty student relationships. They can now be grounds for termination.

I think if you were to report the affair to the chair of his department and the Dean of his college he would be incentivized to end it. It’s not a career enhancer and academic jobs in many fields are few and far between.

Absolutely! Student being an "adult" is irrelevant - at least in the LARGE state university system where I worked. Assuming AP had ANY supervisory/teaching role during ANY inappropriate behaviors there are ethical codes at MOST universities that prohibit romantic relationships between faculty and students. Remember #MeToo? University policies in recent years are more explicit and stringent about ANY and ALL faculty/student interactions than ever before! For example, even if AP wasn't her teacher recently - is she a student/major in the department where he teaches? BIG potential legal issues! As Bigger mentioned conflict of interest/sexual harassment issues are important considerations alongside the basic student/teacher relationship. Babette is also correct - reporting the situation to both School or College Dean and the Department Chair of AP's department are both recommended to activate a response. Maybe he won't get fired, but he will be called on the carpet.

May28, as a longtime university employee/academic who wholeheartedly believes in the importance of doing no harm to students in our charge, I encourage you to report. This scumbag should at the very least have a black spot on his employment record. It's NOT okay for a professor to romance a student - even if he's not her teacher this semester and she's an adult in her 30's.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 3:52 PM, Monday, June 3rd]

Hi May. Yes, it's 14 years later and we are together. Going well honestly.

And yes it did, because I meant it. I made that ultimatum for myself. It laid out the very basic and minimum expectations for her about what I would accept. I 100% intended to divorce if she didn't drop him then and there.

Things were not easy, there was additional d days and trickle truth, it took awhile for her to fully understand what she did but there was no contact from that day and she worked on us.

Protect yourself means financially and emotionally. Like take the 180 for example. Sometimes people see it as a way to punish the ws, but it is a tool to protect the bs. It puts the focus of the bs onto themselves to heal and move forward because the ws has been unreliable as a partner and therefore potentially dangerous to the mental health and stability of the bs - and often the entire family.

Financially, if you do separate or divorce be aware of your state regulations on that. How property or alimony is handled, visitation for kids, distribution of pets and property. Familiarize yourself with what may be coming. Better to be prepared and not need to be than be unprepared for disaster.

As for your situation right now, your wife is actively engaged in an affair and is both unremorseful and has no interest in honesty with you since she broke nc.. in fact I think she is dancing around the divorce conversation because of her immigration status.

If you told her you are not going to share her then it's time for you to start taking steps on that. My advice would be to tell her either you can begin the divorce process now or she can ditch this guy, come home and work on your family, including talking to your son together about what she has done. If she still hems and haws then I suggest finding a lawyer and starting the process yourself. I know I said don't make any major decisions but that was before I read that she broke NC and appears more concerned with her legal status than your marriage.

If she wants to stay in your marriage she will. If she values you then she will stay. There is no soft landing here. Whatever happens is hard and painful.

I'm scared that it will only make things worse - she will return and maybe will be pretending that everything is fine, but then will leave as soon as she has a stable ground

So, let her leave. You cannot be more invested in the M than she is. She can smell this on you and is leveraging against you. This is not about how clever you can play the game to keep her; it's about saving yourself.

I am sorry Friend but your WW is right now, WALKING ALL OVER YOU. And you are not doing a good enough job to protect your son.

1. You gave your WW a few weeks to decide...CRIPES! See you are being much too nice here. See last I checked your WW ALREADY made her decision...when she gave you her vows. She is either in or she is out.

2. Your son is distressed and confused. He is losing trust in you as well because you are LYING to him right now. He cannot wait for you to tell him the truth.

I understand you are put in an extremely tough situation. But please, if you want to protect your family, you need to WAKE UP.

And yes I am indeed trying to get you ANGRY. Anger is right now your FRIEND. You should feel anger at the situation your WW has put you and your son in with her nonsense. Stop buying into it!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:59 PM, Saturday, June 1st]

I'm scared that it will only make things worse - she will return and maybe will be pretending that everything is fine, but then will leave as soon as she has a stable ground

And that's exactly why 'saving my family' needs to be clarified.

If staying together is your goal, you'll never know if you're a fool. The only way to begin to have confidence in your choice is for your WS to choose R freely. The WS's actions have to back up the free choice - by actively showing love the way you want to be loved, by raising and resolving issues, by showing that they know you are the prize, by maintaining NC and more.

That's why Bigger's suggested approach is so powerful. His words give your WS a free choice. She gets to choose between you and her professor - and I, too, would bet he signed onto a code of behavior that prohibits romance between professors and students.

Your son needs help. You can survive and thrive with her, if she changes, or without her. Fear doesn't lead to strong Reconciliations. Courage does. That courage is within you. If you can't find it, a good IC can help. But make no mistake: the courage is in you now.

You can't save your family without risking a breakup. I know that sucks. I know it's difficult to risk one's family. I know it's easier said than done. But IMO, it's the only way to start a strong R.

I appreciate you all finding time for your messages.

My goal at this point is not returning her no matter what. I just think it worth trying to save the marriage and our family. If it doesn't work, then we can both agree on that and divorce. If I do all I can now it might return her to the family, but she'll think I forced her to do that and she will not be working on fixing our relationships honestly and genuinely. She already accused me a couple of times on pushing her to go to MC. She also told me that now she feels like me not giving her emotional response was like a some sort of emotional abuse. And going full power might only distance here even further from me, family and reality. I also keep in mind that she had some suicidal thoughts a few years ago that she had to work on with a therapist on. She is stable now, but is obviously very confused, scared, lost and out of reality.

After out talk last Thursday I've noticed a weird long call to phone number that I can't clearly tell who it belongs to. Any recommendations on what tool or service I can use to check who current owner is?

It’s very noble the path you want to take, and I understand that you’re trying hard. I promise the path of kindness, compassion, understanding is fruitless with someone in an affair.

It may feel like you’re being attacked by us, I promise you no one here is. Many of us betrayed tried the same way you have, with the same logic, and all we got in return was another dday, or WS leaving, or a combination of both. Compassion doesn’t work with a cheater, all it does is give them more justification to keep cheating. The whole hinting at emotional abuse from you is really hypocritical considering she is gaslighting you which is actually a form of abuse.

Me personally, I’ve been dealing with infidelity for over 2 years, I have read 1000s of articles, stories, blog posts, forums, been all over NO SOLICITING!, and every where in-between. Many of the posters here are much further along than me, and all of us are saying the same thing to you. There is a reason why.

The only way to have any chance of saving your marriage is being ready to end it. Stop thinking of her as your partner, she isn’t. Her mind is focused on her boyfriend. That’s her priority. Again, she left you and went to see him. That isn’t a chance happening. She left you to "to get space" to spend time with her boyfriend, and she knows you will be there waiting for her. We call that a cake eater. She won’t agree to D because that will ruin her cake.

I know, because I did almost exactly what you did. It didn’t save my family or marriage, it caused way more harm. You aren’t the problem, the cheating wife is.

And again, I have to ask, what are the consequences for her seeing her boyfriend after telling you she went NC? What about you, your feelings, your safety? Being nice here isn’t going to help you, all that will happen is that she will walk all over you. That’s what you are fighting to save? Someone who will abuse and use you, cheat on you, and then string you along because you’re nice?

I get it, it’s hard and scary. As I said, I have five kids, I know how hard the decision is. It wasn’t until I made a post in another community where everyone started pointing out the very obvious lies I was believing and being very honest but brutal to me that I finally saw the truth.

It’s your life, and there’s a chance we are all wrong and the way you are going will work. I wouldn’t bet on it though, nor would anyone on this forum.

One final thing, who cares who she is calling? She already went to her boyfriend. What more do you need? And what do you think they were doing? Grading papers together? Talking about the syllabus? She left you. She has a boyfriend. You don’t need anymore proof. Stop with the "she’s broken and in fantasy land" crap. She knows what she is doing and doesn’t care about you or your son.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:47 PM, Sunday, June 2nd]

HellIsNotHalfFull, in our conversation last Thursday I clearly let she know that she is free to go if she made a decision. I guess she understands that D will likely ruin her life. She also told me that she is not choosing between him and me, but that she just doesn't want to stay in relationships with and meeting him was just a trigger. When I asked her how she sees her life if we separate or divorce she was not able to clearly explain that.

I don't think she's been actively dating with OP because check car location from time to time. I also saw some of their text chats before NC and I haven't noticed a sign of intimacy there. I clearly understand that she still has feelings to him, but I'm not sure if it equals having and A with both parts actively involved. Also, why did she decide to tell me that she saw him even though I haven't asked? That is weird to me. Does she want to be honest or feels guilt?

Let’s state facts.

She had an affair. And is likely still having the affair.

People who have affairs lie. They lie about how serious it is, how far it went. They also
rewrite history of your relationship. This happens in like 80/100 affairs, maybe more.

She can say whatever she wants. What do her actions tell you? She had an affair and promised no contact with AP, and she broke it. She. Is. Lying to you. Yes, to your face. When my wife was cheating on me she swore to me as the mother of our children that she would never do anything to jeopardize our marriage or their future. She had sex with her AP that morning and again two days later.

My WW also made sure that any texts between her and her AP were clean and not suspicious at all because she suspected I was reading them. Then she used a different app to communicate with him and it automatically deleted the messages.

Stop listening to her words. Look at her actions. She left you and your son to "get space" after her affair. That’s not someone who wants to save their marriage. She went on a date with her AP while finding herself. Again not someone who is fighting for her marriage. You told her right? No contact means no contact?

I can’t say for sure why she told you, but it isn’t necessarily because she wants to be honest. If I had to guess it’s because she wants to justify. She tells you, there’s no consequences, then what she is doing is ok, and she doesn’t feel guilty.

Boundaries aren’t control, they are protecting you. Not seeing the man she cheated on you with isn’t a big ask. She did it anyway and you haven’t done anything about it. So in her mind you are weak, and you are ok with her seeing him.
She doesn’t want D because she doesn’t want consequences. She wants her boyfriend and her husband.
D doesn’t allow her to have her cake and eat it too.

She can say whatever about not choosing but her actions prove other wise. Sure she didn’t intend to see him again. That’s great. But she did it anyway. It wasn’t a trigger, it was a choice. She’s not an innocent lamb following a Judas goat to the slaughter. She is an adult, with complete agency and she made the decision.

Let go of who you thought she was, the she would never. She would and she is right in front of your face. I know, i know how hard it is to face. I told myself the same thing. I couldn’t believe my W would cheat on me, tell me how I’m the only one, and I couldn’t believe she would actually risk D as a SAHM of 5 kids and destroy the life we had worked so hard for. Turns out she would. Just like your situation, my W gaslit the hell out of me to keep the false narrative, to include being accused of abuse, and that I was controlling her because I didn’t want AP around anymore.

The harder i fought for our marriage, the deeper she went to affair land. When I gave up, when I was absolutely done and didn’t care anymore, only then did the light come on and WW realized she was in serious trouble. I’m in R because I chose to be, I really didn’t care at all if she left me, in fact i wanted her too because it would have made everything easier. Also, I realized she had already left, she had made her choice and it was AP. So I said to hell with it.

Find your strength.
Stop giving her a pass. Stop telling yourself it’s a fantasy or an escape or whatever. Stop being nice and holding your promises. Don’t insult or yell or anything like that, but if you keep playing nice, which is called pick me dance, she will only keep walking all over you. You know that at the least she had a dinner date with him and nothing has happened or changed. So, the affair continues and you will be left behind