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HHADL, thanks again for all your support and replies on my general thread about the same topic.

BlackRaven,

Yes I’m pretty sure they have had sex. She has sent multiple nude pics. I know they did not end up meeting up yesterday via their texts but it sounds like they have in the past. I’m not sure how it is rape? It sounds pretty consensual and she is 21 not 19...it’s sickening really though either way. More sickening is that we know her parents and prior to covid have hung out with her parents before...rarely but still, they are neighbours 5 houses around the corner. He has also been messaging one other person but I’m not sure the details. All in the same week a message from another person indicating she was at a hotel but he responded first that it was a ‘heat score’ message and secondly that it was too late notice and he couldn’t make it there.

It’s overwhelming for sure.

We do have kids. A lovely 7 year old daughter who is as sweet as can be and a kind, adventurous 9 year old son. We are in a red zone covid wise, so high restrictions on place starting Monday. My Mom & her husband are in our bubble so plan to spend Xmas with us. The kids deserve a happy non stressful Santa loving Xmas. I don’t want to ruin that. However, I realize I haven’t actually ruined it but the consequences to my husbands addictions will...what to do???

I’m not sure...I feel like from my general thread, I’m advised to get some ducks in a row. A temporary plan at the very least to tell him this is what’s going to happen...then likely before Xmas because I can’t even stand the sight of him, I hope to confront him and tell hi after Xmas we need to separate. Or your right, why wait...separate immediately, in house separation for now, provide the kids with a happy Xmas if we can and then sort things out...I don’t know. It’s a mess!!

[This message edited by Somber at 11:12 AM, December 12th (Saturday)]

I'm so sorry for all you are going through. Would it work if you told the kids that daddy was sick and you're going to your parents for the holidays and just go now. Tell him to be out by the 26th? It might not be tradition but if you WH is running around town, he's exposing you and the kids to the risk of covid. There's no point in having a bubble if it's got a big hole in it. When I learned of my SAWH affair and had that realization, I told him to move out. It was bad enough he exposed me to STDs, but putting our kid at risk made something in me click.

The bit*ch in me says print out pics of the girl, and his other communications, and drop them in an envelope in your neighbor's mailbox. Let the mom and dad know what their daughter is up to and let her know that she's not the only one.

If she was under 18 when they had sex it might be rape, but it sounds like it wasn't that long ago and you have no proof.

Please make sure you take care of yourself. Have you found a betrayal trauma therapist? Started attending 12-step meetings for the wives of sex addicts? SAL Lifeline has a meeting for moms midday on Monday. It's like the airplane scenario. You have to take care of yourself so you can take care of your kids.

Thank you Black Raven.

I think if I tell the kids anything, it will backfire with his craziness directed at me. I’m trying to be as dignified as possible to not create more toxicity from him.

I do want to tell this girls parents, I mean she presents herself like a damn prostitute. She used to babysit for our friends kids. She is damn kid in my opinion. Gross. I have no solid proof but she is of age to consent so it doesn’t matter.

You are right, there is no point having a bubble with a gaping whole in it. I mean he met someone after getting a covid test last weekend then came home and isolated in the basement. Ridiculous, clearly he isn’t in control right now. So infuriating.

I won’t leave the home, I feel like home is the best thing for the kids as opposed to uprooting them. Hopefully he will feel guilty or shamed enough to leave but I doubt it.

I so see a trauma therapist and have a session Monday. I haven’t joined a SA group yet...

[This message edited by Somber at 1:41 PM, December 12th (Saturday)]

Somber,

If you're not strong enough to leave now and you want to get through xmas together then I'd suggest not telling him anything - just get your ducks in a row to end this mess. He's clearly not a candidate for R.

If it's a fault state, obviously gather proof for court. If it's not - then I'd just shift my focus to figuring what I need to feel strong enough to leave and begin making that happen. He's incorrigible.

Thanks Skeeter,

I’m not necessarily strong enough; however, I can’t live like this...perhaps not even for 2 more weeks. I’m at my capacity and no longer managing well. I feel like I’m gonna burst or blow up at any little thing. I can’t even look at him. Although I would like to get some things in order, I expect I will blow long before I really have anything together.

It’s a no fault province so I do need to focus on me and what I need to get done.

[This message edited by Somber at 5:59 PM, December 12th (Saturday)]

It’s worse than I think or know. I’m not sure if I’m trying to hurt myself or inform myself on his behaviours. I sneaked a peek at his Apple Watch again and yet another woman. This is 4 women he is messaging all in one week. This one started as ‘hotel again?’ And the describing of dreams they plan to act out but sadly can’t meet til after Xmas. Omg I’m just so sick from it all.

Then he comes home this morning from work, I don’t acknowledge him. He then, with a dirty look, says ‘hi’ with a tone of wtf is wrong with you attitude. Like seriously; the entitlement to expect to live a double life is mind blowing!!

It’s taking everything in me to get though the day already. I really want to gets some ducks in a row and see my therapist tmrw

Like seriously; the entitlement to expect to live a double life is mind blowing

It is crazymaking! Mine would act the same way. Prince precious needed his ego stroked by everyone. It’s mind boggling how sick they are!

I’m not sure if I’m trying to hurt myself or inform myself on his behaviours.

Seeking the truth about acts committed against you is perfectly reasonable.

I mean, why do we take people to court for their crimes? In part, it is so the investigation of said crime can be fleshed out, and the injured parties can speak their truth.

I say this with the utmost compassion, and with no intention of shaming you. But it is one of those hard-to-swallow pills that I had to come to terms with. Maybe it will help you to know that someone else has lived it too and come out the other side.

I was committing self-harm by staying with someone whose only commitment was to hurting me.I hung onto the glimmers of hope in his words, instead of recognizing the weight and meaning of each of his actions.

It didn't matter what the hurt was, how big or how small. He made willful decisions to build himself up, to seek those dopamine hits, at the expense of my health and sanity. Every day he was given a new chance. And every day he made the decision that made himself feel better, even if he knew it would hurt me.

Think of it this way. You love chocolate cake. You would eat it for every meal if you could. Then someone comes along and tells you that you could, in fact, have chocolate cake for every meal. It would come to your house, free of charge, delivered by some magical cake fairies. BUT, every time you took a bite of that cake, you would have to stab your husband. That's the trade off.

Normal, rational people would not take the cake. No matter how good it tastes, no matter how much you crave it.

Addicts want the cake so bad that they will rationalize stabbing you. You said something mean to them, so you deserved it. Or they'll minimize it, saying it's just a little scratch. They may even choose to stab you while you're sleeping in hopes that you won't wake up and they can just act like you must have been stuck by something in your sleep. They might take to little, tiny stabs - after all, the magic cake fairies didn't say what they had to stab you with, so maybe it's a tiny little needle sometimes. You're overreacting, they're just little cuts! At some point they start talking about how clumsy you are, how you must just be accidentally stabbing yourself. They have no idea where all of those wounds are coming from. Now they're gaslighting you, insisting they're not actually stabbing you, you just keep running into the knife. Meanwhile they've got a chocolate cake covered fork in one hand, and a bloody knife in the other asking you why on earth you are so upset.

He's got a knife in his hand, and he's choosing to stab you in the back with it. There's no gun to his head, it's a choice. He's shown you that he really likes stabbing you, and all of the cake that comes with it.

You can keep trying to wrestle the knife from his hand, or convince him why stabbing is bad. You can send him to therapists who also try to convince him that stabbing to get cake is bad, that there are other, less hurtful ways to get cake. But in the meantime, he's still stabbing you with a mouthful of cake.

The best thing you can do for yourself is to stop trying to convince the knife-wielding freak why you don't deserve to be stabbed, and just run far, far away from the guy with the knife.

Your analogy is so spot on. Enjoyed reading it for the ease of comparison to what’s really going on. So true how they need the cake so bad that they rationalize, minimize, etc the harm done to us.

I think it’s reasonable too to seek out the truths because he will never provide it. It has been the only way I have ever learned anything and then even when throwing hard facts at him, he denies them and minimizes them.

It’s funny you say to stop trying to convince him, I’ve heard that before, but it feels so natural to try and prove your own worth and that you don’t deserve this or that. Truth is they don’t see it that way, they are looking through a different lens than us. Heck we aren’t even in theirs, my spouse has said many times “I didn’t mean to hurt you, it’s not you, I didn’t even think of you.” Their addictions become so compulsive that I believe some of this to be true.

[This message edited by Somber at 7:14 PM, December 13th (Sunday)]

Honestly, at this point in their addiction or whatever it is, they're no better than a sociopath. You have to treat it like you're living with one. There is no love there. There's no empathy. This person is actually your enemy. You have to "unperson" him to a point. There's nothing to reason with here. He cannot hear you and he cannot care. He may have been your husband at one point, but right now he is a dangerous thing that you have to escape.

You say you lack the strength, but I'll tell you that 85% of the strength is truly just "I cannot live like this anymore". I left because my hair was metaphorically on fire. I had metaphorical hives from being in his presence. I was like a firefly in a jar frantically beating at the walls until I got out. I fled my marriage. Metaphorically chewed off my arm to escape.

You say you lack the strength, but I'll tell you that 85% of the strength is truly just "I cannot live like this anymore". I left because my hair was metaphorically on fire. I had metaphorical hives from being in his presence. I was like a firefly in a jar frantically beating at the walls until I got out. I fled my marriage. Metaphorically chewed off my arm to escape.

Exactly how I had felt. Like I couldn’t take one more day I literally felt like I had to save my life.

Boy can I relate to all of you here.

My SAWH passed away this past March, 2020 from cancer. But I prefer to call it that he passed away due to his reckless lifestyle choices and also choosing to carry the deep, dark secrets that he thought he took to his grave. He was a sick... I know all his lies, infidelities, shame, guilt, sadness, alcohol, etc. had to have been a great burden for him to carry.

Once he passed away, everything about who he was came to the light... I could never piece together his stories and behavior and also why nothing made sense to me, until after his passing because he spent so much time lying to me, gaslighting, buying me, that he was able to convince me that he was this great, honest, loving faithful, hardworking husband. He wanted me to believe this and that he messed up and went out on me one time, he meant two times. Lol Yeah right.

I feel sorry for all of you who has gone through this or are currently having to deal with a cheating spouse. It sucks. It really does. And it also sucks the life out of us. I say get away from these losers as quickly as you can.

I can't think of a better way of putting it except to say that it's totally a mind f*** to have to live this way. It's not right. I don't think their minds are right either.

In my experience, I have found my SAWH behavior was downright bizarre at times. It was very confusing when I was in it. It was crazymaking!

My SAWH death has not made things any easier because instead of mourning someone who I thought he was, I am now having to deal with the aftermath of the truth of who he really was. It's so sad but I am also seeing better days and I am also working on my why's as to why I would choose someone so messed up like he was, in the first place. And now I definitely don't trust myself to want to find another man after this. But I am strong and determined to rise above, even if I end up spending the rest of my time on earth without another partner.

And now that I am working past his infidelity, I am beginning to see the light of clarity and peace on the other side of this deep, dark tunnel. To me, this is so unfortunate, shocking and disappointing for me to ever have had to find myself here on SI in the first place. But here I am! And I believe by the grace of God, I've been set free from my SAWH infidelities, sad as the ending was.

So sorry you too find yourselves here but the support is amazing!

I want to make a correction. I don't think that they are losers, I think that they are severe addicts who have lost their control to addictions. Very sad.

Somber,

Just be careful with this guy. He sounds really far gone and I worry about what rage may come out when and if you blow up and tell him what you know. They are not well and they don't like anyone messing with their little double life.

You'll get to that place where you can't do it anymore. So, just plan away, hide documents, save money, look for new places to live, whatever it is you might need to do - one day you'll be ready and in my experience, a little duck-lining up makes it smoother.

I was trying to take a break from posting/reading today, but I can't seem to stop the intrusive thoughts, so I'm going to indulge myself.

I have been reflecting on how grateful I am for this group. SI as a whole, but our little SA Spouses thread especially. I can't imagine trying to navigate my life post discovery without all of you ladies. Yes, infidelity is a shit sandwich no matter what kind you're served, but ours is a very unique flavor, and it's really impossible to understand unless you've tasted it. There's something about finding that recognition point in others' experiences - that OMG, they get it!! moment - that made me feel like I could take a full, deep breath again.

Lately I just find myself feeling... guilty? I don't know if that is the right word, but off the top of my head that's the best I can do. I feel guilty that in order to have that feeling of recognition, to get that sense of relief, that means that other people out there in the world had to go through this same trauma.

I'm angry that the world is so messed up that we socialize men to behave this way. And no, not all men turn out to be SAs, genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the trigger. But there's enough shitty upbringing out there to create enough of these men that so many of us have to heal from. Run from.

I'm just...sad. Profoundly sad. That any of us have a reason to be here. That we seem to be consistently welcoming new members. That there's a woman out there right now getting into a relationship with one of these men, sucked in by their charm, thinking they've found their soul mate, whose reality will be hidden from them, agency stolen from them - all because of the SA's "entitlement to lead a double life," as Somber put it. My/our powerlessness to stop it from happening to them keeps me up at night.

Thanks Skeeter for the concern and advice. I am off today, he works and kids are in school, so I plan to do some research. I called one lawyer yesterday that a friend recommended: $500/hour...where am I to find such money. Another one was $300/hour. Neither do free consults. I’m trying to arrange a free 30 minutes with the law society for starters.

Yesterday, we were both off, I avoided home all day. Our mortgage is up to be renewed so he was pushing to get that done and waiting for a document from me. I stated that I don’t know if we should remortgage and that snowballed into a whole day of crazy texts after I left the house. Accusing me of this or that, saying I can have everything and the kids; saying if I want to do everything then I can go to Costco too. The Costco thing is so stupid. It was his only thing to do last week when I was working but Thursday he got drunk instead, Friday he had plans with an affair partner, yesterday he was just acting like a child. I told him I wasn’t going; I had other things to do for the family (Santa things) and it’s day 3 of him choosing to go when I offered to go, so I left it for him.

He then had all sorts of comments for me seeing my therapist yesterday claiming all she does is tell women to leave their husbands because she left hers. It’s online so I sat in my car, he texts after saying he has been waiting in his truck with groceries waiting for me to be done...but I wasn’t even home. He claims groceries are ruined then proceeds to not even be home for another hour after this stupidity of trying to make me feel bad. I ignore him, hang out with the kids. He makes supper and finishes a load of laundry he was doing, then says ‘do you think your on holidays?’ Like wtf. I do mostly everything so was feeling like I had to explain myself but ignored him instead.

He is so behavioural and difficult to live with unless he is getting what he wants. Unless I’m submissive and allowing him to control everything. Unless I’m quiet and don’t speak of his wrongdoings. He can not take responsibility for his actions, he never has been able to even discuss it. So if I’m not sweeping things under the rug then it is large broken egg shells around here.

He knows I know something but would never dare to admit it, in case he adds to what I know because sadly there is always more. I feel I only ever know the tip of an iceberg. That’s just fine, I don’t care anymore. I feel like I’ve been in an emotionally abusive marriage and I’m no longer able to play a part in it. My life has become unmanageable, I am powerless over his addictions, I am tremendously broken emotionally and mentally from this and I need out. Through sickness and health, F that now. I’ve been by his side, hoping and trying to support him through his ‘sickness’ but I’m not trained or strong enough to do it...nor is it my job.

It’s me or him and as many of you have said for a while, I need to choose me, my sanity, my health, my plans to be a happy and healthy Mom. He has never put me first, he doesn’t even support my therapy to feel better from all his crap.

[This message edited by Somber at 6:09 AM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

Hurt my heart,

I’m sorry you have had to grieve the loss of the man you thought you married and the actual loss of him. That is so painful. I hope you have therapy and IRL support to help you through this. You will always have us too. Keep moving to the light and peace at the end of the tunnel.

HHADL,

Yes it’s overwhelming that there are so many of us living parallel lives with these men. It’s very depressing indeed. I’m so grateful for SI too and especially this thread. Others, not included in the group, try but don’t fully grasp the nightmare that we have lived. Others, clearly just feel we are pathetic for staying with serial cheaters and enjoy throwing labels on us (codependent, co-addict, etc). It truly only is those who have endured life with not just an addict, a sex addict, that can fully understand and appreciate our pain and struggle.

(((Somber))) when I read your posts I feel like I am reading about my own life how they are so similar from the criticism to the baiting. My STBX hates my therapy feels that my therapist sabotaged the M. It’s crazy they cannot stand you getting stronger and not falling for their traps anymore. When I stopped reacting to him and doing everything he demanded he became undone. Still is. I get accused of seeing other people while he is seeing other people. Then berates me over anything he can find on me. They cannot look at themselves it’s easier for them to blame us.

HHADL, I know what you mean. I'm beyond grateful to have others who understand this insanity and at the same time I wish I were the only one who did. We've walked through hell. Some of us (((Somber))) are still walking through hell. Living with a completely irrational person isn't good for anyone and it sounds like your WH is on his crazy bigtime, Somber.

Somber, thank you for replying to my post.

I am doing excellent (still some bad days but to be expected) because of all the hard work I've been doing.

I am here to continue learning as much as I can about SA and addiction in general and also wanting to offer my support and hope.

I am so sorry that you are having to go through this too but also agree that your detaching from him is in your best interest.

You are on the right path, keep up the good work.