I'd like to open this post with some main points of clarity without my usual snark or narrative fluff. I'm doing this because I think some people might see the title I used a week ago and be replying based on that and skimming everything since which I know I can be guilty of, as well. If that's not the case, I'll at least know that further responses are based on current circumstances. I've also put an update on the first post.
1. My WW accepted my conditions for beginning to reestablish trust. Electronic transparency, no visits to the casino where they met unless I go with her (which isn't going to happen for a while), and demonstrated remorse.
2. We didn't get here because I had any super convincing rational argument that changed her mind. The 180 and showing that I was serious about ending the marriage if she didn't start acting like she wanted it changed her mind.
3. I'm still not initiating conversation unless it's about our house, our finances, or our daughter. But on Saturday night she called me on her way to work. She texted me when she had some downtime at work. She called me on her way home. She's trying to reconnect and driving that attempt.
4. She is starting IC with a new therapist who focuses on motivational interviewing and cognitive behavioral therapy in a couple days. This is in addition to the psychiatrist she's been seeing who is primarily focused on her ADHD diagnosis.
5. I'm starting IC in a week. Soonest I could get an appointment.
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On to replies!
Dude67, I hope the five points above alleviate your concerns some. I don't know what you're referring to exactly when you talk about my optimism but if you're talking about my post about Saturday's conversation I think you missed the part where I explained to WW that she had misidentified what she thought was optimism.
My optimism, I explained to her, is not actually optimism. It's a hope, absolutely, but it's also rational self-interest. Getting divorced will change my situation but it won't change me; I'll take my problems with me just as she will hers. Trying reconciliation now will give me the opportunity to not just learn tools but to practice using tools to evaluate the status of my relationships, to communicate better, to listen better, to solution better, to execute those solutions better. These things are going to make me a better partner for WW or for someone else.
Stevesn, I think it's your first time here. Glad to have you. I believe she's putting in the work. She's been present for me in a way that has been lacking since even before her A started. I hope IC will really help her but that's because I think she needs help if she's going to be the best mom she can be, the best partner she can be for whoever. I've let go of the outcome; I can still see it in the distance and I'd be thrilled if that's where the path I'm walking ends up but the path I'm walking is my focus.
Abolone, "ego kibbles" cracked me all the way up. God, that's good. I believe I'm getting her full effort but I know there will be ups and downs. I'm watching and waiting, ready to encourage good behaviors and making note of the bad ones. On that topic, phycology and neurology research for decades has repeatedly shown that humans respond to positive reinforcement better than negative reinforcement in terms of both immediate response and creating lasting change.
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Things aren't all sunshine and roses. When WW called me on Sunday morning, the first thing we talked about was the fact that her AP texted her overnight. She didn't handle it perfectly. First, the fact that she responded at all to him, even though that response was to tell him not to contact her was not what I would have advised her to do. Second, she panicked and deleted the texts so even though I believe her, I'll never be sure that her response was just "don't contact me again." On the plus side, she brought it up herself, researched how he was able to text her despite having his number blocked (Android thing, can confirm), and without prompting said that if he managed to contact her again she would not delete it until I had seen it. I wish she had handled it better, she would have handled it better if she had read Healing From Infidelity.
I've been looking into various resources for me and it's been interesting and even fun.
Ester Perel kind of sucks but she isn't entirely without insight. I've only listened to her TED Talk and the two episodes of her podcast about the polyamorous couple because it came up in another thread but I jotted down a few notes. Taking what I need and leaving the rest (thanks again, Tanner).
What I've really liked though was digging into the neuroscience of love and sex and relationships and just general mental health. I got really into neuroscience after reading the very excellent science fiction novel
Blindsight
by Peter Watts almost ten years ago. I've never combined that with much self-examination, though, and I'm finding a fresh passion for it all over again with this new angle.
I'd highly recommend anyone else who was interested to hit YouTube and watch Dr. Robert Sapolsky's Human Behavioral Biology class at Stanford. It's on YouTube because he believes that anyone can benefit from learning about how our biology affects our behavior. It's meant to be appropriate for any undergrad in any major. There are videos that cover the hard science stuff in a novice friendly way but if you're not interested in that you can just watch the ones with topics that interest you.
You should also look up him talking about stress, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, or read the book of the same name.
Dr. Andrew Huberman is a neuroscientist also and his Huberman Labs podcast is great (also on YouTube if you prefer).