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Heartbrokenwife23

at what point along your healing journey did YOU (WS) feel that you were "deserving" of some leniency from the BS (ex. not having snarky comments around the A thrown around after every conversation, the BS showing you some grace/softness for your consistent/hard work, etc.)?

I know that my WH could literally move mountains and fly to the moon and back and it wouldn’t be enough. I suppose since we are trying to move in the direction of R, at some point I need to be better and not bitter towards my WH.

Hmmm . . . our relationship wasn't exactly like this but something kind of close. There was a point at about five years post infidelity when my husband was dealing (poorly) with some of his own FOO hurts and it was (negatively) affecting our relationship. I would try to talk to him about something I needed help with, and he was angry that I was not happy because he did so much to try to help me be happy - he would feel inadequate when I wasn't happy. I would manage my feelings, de-escalate, all the stuff. But I wanted to talk to someone who would be helpful. I finally told him, you can deal with your stuff so we can have a close relationship, or I will stop coming to you and talk to my girlfriends instead. I prefer being close to you. Please choose. It wasn't a matter of "deserving" a close relationship, it was whether or not he actually wanted a close relationship and was willing to do what HE had to do to get it. Maybe you don't want that with your husband. I think that might be OK? People can be imperfectly married. I think most people are in fact imperfectly married. Maybe you are happy with a lot of the relationship but sometimes you get bitter and need space. Or maybe it will just take a long time. A lot of things take a long time.

Heartbrokenwife23,

In re-reading my answer I can see that I didn't directly respond to you, but embedded in my answer is that I did think I deserved to be listened to sympathetically, I didn't feel entitled to that from him but I let him know I preferred talking to him, and I was (after lots of figuring stuff out) able to meet that need/desire in a healthy and intentional way with him knowing completely what was going on.

How important is it that your BS spouse noticed your changes and said, " I trust that you won’t do blank again."

It’s like my husband wants to feel like I feel somewhat safe with him. That I believe in his growth.

For me, just the fact that he did it means that no amount of growth removes it from the realm of possibilities.

He seems so broken from knowing this. What did you expect when you pulverize a person’s heart and belief?

I think "trust" is a broad category. My infidelity was over 30 years ago. If my husband had remained permanently hypervigilant, suspicious of my every move, requiring verification of where I was and with whom for several years after D-Day, I wouldn't have blamed him, but I also wouldn't have stayed in the marriage. I would have taken responsibility for his broken trust, recognized that it wasn't a healthy dynamic for either one of us, and moved on.

Now, if I do something that can reasonably be construed as suspicious, or he's just in a vulnerable place and wants reassurance, that to me is a natural and permanent consequence of what I did. I can't claim to be incapable of it. Eight years ago, he came to me and asked me to explain why I had deleted WhatsApp from my phone. I had installed it at the request of my child's school; she was on a student exchange trip, and the app was the most effective means of communicating with a large group of parents. When she got home, I left it there until I needed more storage space, and then it was part of a general purge. I wasn't the slightest bit offended that he confronted me. I just felt awful that I had created the concern.

He seems so broken from knowing this. What did you expect when you pulverize a person’s heart and belief?

This is such a reasonable question, How.

For me, during the affair and also other times during our marriage, I wasn't thinking of him. I was only thinking of the attention I was getting from the AP. I was selfish and lacked empathy. I know now, after years of reading and discussing with my BS that I caused him immeasurable pain and that there will always be a question in his mind if I'm holding back information.

My BS believes that I've never truly figured out what my "whys" are. Do you feel that way about your BS?

Not fully. I do believe there was childhood trauma that he buried and can’t remember or something like that. He says his childhood was happy but I have my doubts.

Meant to write a quick thank you and acknowledgment in regards to my last post here.

H/O

My WH has had so many personal things come up that he has to face on top of everything else. I can see he’s struggling trying to balance it all … thinking he very much could break at any point in time. I don’t know what I get from being snarky, I know that it’s just something I’ve always done - maybe I use it as a shield of some sort. Being snarky does also keep me bitter and in an anger like state, which maybe makes me feel less vulnerable. I stopped my own IC because I didn’t like them, I’ve been looking into some other options. Hopefully I can start up again in the new year and correct some of my own destructive behaviour.

Pippin

I definitely think many marriages out there are imperfect. I know mine was/is definitely one of those. I’m definitely a bitter person and can hold a grudge like none other. I’m definitely not proud of this, I can’t help it and I’m unsure how to fix it. I do believe my WH is definitely worthy of some sort of praise as he’s been fully committed to me and our children for the past 14 months, but then there is this little devil sitting on my shoulder at all times reminding me of what he’s done. All I have to do is think of it for one second and I instantly go into "fuck you" mode. Even though, the angel on the other side try’s to remind me all that he’s done/been doing to make things right.

Heartbroken-

I get it, believe me. Try the book "rising strong" by brene brown. I think some of her concepts will help you look at it from different angles.

Your ws needs to be responsible for his own coping skills. Which is kind of a lot of the work a ws does to become a safer partner.

I had that reaction to therapy, because it seemed to be talking all around what I came in to fix which was my pain. But it was through trusting the process that before you can address that you have to develop self awareness/understanding over what patterns we have that do not serve us and learning to recognize where they come from so that we can keep halting them earlier and earlier in the process until we have a different reaction altogether. Change is hard and takes a lot of time.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:51 PM, Thursday, December 12th]

We are 10 years out from my FWH’s long term affair and I am struggling again, like I have off and on for a very long time. H was very supportive for a couple of years but eventually got tired of hearing about my pain, me asking questions, etc. He started getting defensive when I would mention anything, I would get upset, we would argue, I would cry….not productive at all. In all other ways, he’s been a model FWH. I started just keeping things to myself to keep from rocking the boat but now I want to talk about it again because this many years is a long ass time to try to heal on your own. It wasn’t worth the damage to my mental health and it makes me nervous to think about going down that path again. I’m not sure I could take it if I initiated a conversation and was brushed off or we had a big fight. I’m pretty fragile right now and I just restarted therapy for the 4th time.

WS - have any of you been in this situation? Like you were initially supportive but got tired of the whole situation and would shut your BS down? Have you changed and started being open to their questions and emotions again, developed more empathy or just evolved as a human? If so, what changed? Did you see BS struggling and feel bad enough to change? Did you have to go back to MC to see it? Was it guilt and shame that made you avoid talk or references to the A?

BS only.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:40 PM, Wednesday, December 18th]

BS only

This thread is dedicated to BS questions for WSes.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:43 PM, Wednesday, December 18th]

I had hoped someone meeting the criteria of these last two posts would emerge.

I can only tell you my experience as a ws and how I look at it, in hopes something in there will be helpful.

The first year was very rough for me to come to terms with what I had done. It was hard for me to get over my huge emotions and shame enough to be able to let his pain fully come in.

I went to therapy that entire year plus the two months leading up to my confession. And by about the 10 month mark my husband asked me for a divorce.

I would never advise a bs to ask for a divorce unless it’s what they wanted but I do think that therapy can help you come to terms with your personal outcome does not have to be tied to your marital outcome. By embracing what you will accept and won’t accept and letting go of what outcome you wish could happen, clarity can be found. Otherwise you will continue in a maze of cognitive dissonance while you slowly lose track of your needs.

Often times, I think the ws banks on you not going anywhere. They have an illusion that time will mend it and that they can’t help you get there. But, upon seeing someone who respects themselves enough to put in place boundaries that can make them reevaluate, because if they wanted to lose you they would have already left.

So I am not saying feign strength, or make ultimatums. I am saying start putting yourself back together and focus on what you need. Start putting a plan in place for your exit so if the time comes you have already worked through logistics and also it’s a mental thing to realize you will be okay without them.

Ultimately, the ws needs to come to a place where the pain of not changing is greater than the pain it would take to work on things. And if not, they are never going to do it and you have your answer.

For me, after I started really understanding the damage of what I did, I have never again bristled at discussing it, bringing it up, helping him through triggers. And that is what remorse looks like. Guilt and shame can be very big and seeing the pain inflicted on top of that can be overwhelming. Therapy helped me gain enough compassion for myself that I could put it away and let his in more.

As for marriage counseling I do think it can be helpful but not before individual therapy at least by the ws, because you can’t fix a marriage with a broken person still in it. They have to work to get to clarity before they can have a positive effect on the relationship. And the bs needs to heal to a certain extent in order for the relationship to be worked on. So I think MC is a good tool if you have a remorseful ws, but if not then it will be like beating your head against the wall because they can’t see what you are talking about, they can only see their pain.

I hope this helps. Protect yourself- your energy, your resources, and your sanity. If your ws will do the work and you are still willing to work things through with them, great. But without that clear intention from the ws you are always going to be driving the repairing the relationship and that is intolerable after betrayal.

Hello, me again so soon …

At any point did you ever think your BS was a "chump, pushover, weak, pathetic, dumb" (you get the picture) for staying and agreeing to work on R?

I know at my core my WH is extremely grateful for a "second chance," however, sometimes I wonder what kind of "message" I’m sending after what he’s done.

HBW

While i’m not in the situation you described, I’d still like to offer some of my thoughts.

I think it takes incredible courage to want to try and R with someone who has betrayed you so badly. You’re probably at war with yourself; one side telling you to kick him to the curb while the other is willing to give him another chance. A chance which he is neither owed or deserved.

You say he is grateful for this gift you’re offering, only time will tell if he is sincere. Watch his actions and efforts to see if they’re genuine. Any WS who thinks you’re pathetic or weak isn’t R material. If he secretly feels that way, the mask will eventually slip and you will know for certain.