SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First, thank you to everyone who replied to my original post.

I spent the last few days reading through a lot of the comments and trying to look at the situation from different angles. What surprised me was how split people were. Some thought I was overthinking everything, while others felt there were some serious red flags.

The one thing I kept seeing over and over was that, even if nothing sexual happened, certain boundaries were probably crossed.

One comment in particular stuck with me:

"If those had been women inviting them back to a villa after the festival, would they have gone? Probably not. The fact that they were attractive, successful men may have made some of those decisions easier."

I don't know if that's true, but it definitely made me think.

So instead of confronting my wife immediately, I decided to keep my mouth shut for a bit and just pay attention.

The first thing I wanted to know was who these guys actually were. After some digging through Instagram, I managed to find most of them. Some accounts were public, some private. From what I could tell, they weren't flashy rich-party types. A few seemed divorced, others looked single.

My wife, Leonor, and the rest of their group follow them, and they all follow my wife back. At least that told me these weren't complete strangers anymore.

The second thing I did was drive out and see the villa for myself. I know that sounds a bit obsessive, but I wanted to know what kind of place it actually was.

What I found was that it's very private. You can't really see anything from outside, it's in a quiet area, and there was decent security around the property.

I also learned that the villa belongs to one of the people from that group. So on that point at least, my wife was telling the truth.

The third thing I did was meet Leonor's husband for coffee. I didn't interrogate him or anything. We were just talking and I casually asked what Leonor had told him about that night. Interestingly, her story was almost identical to what Sofia told me. Apparently all four women were invited, but Martha and Carmen didn't go because they had a business trip the next morning. They encouraged Leonor and Sofia to go without them.

Leonor also told her husband a few things Sofia never mentioned to me. They had dinner, played cards, danced, and some of the dancing involved pairing up with the men who were there.

At some point around 2:30 in the morning they took drugs. There were around 10-12 people there altogether, including 5 women.

The thing that caught my attention most was that Leonor told her husband she changed clothes before coming home the next morning. My wife also came home in different clothes.

So unless there's some innocent explanation I'm missing, both of them changed outfits at the villa.

Over the last week Sofia has felt a little different with me. Not dramatically. Just slightly colder.
She's been busy with work and the kids. We've still been intimate twice and everything felt normal physically, but emotionally I feel like there's a distance there that wasn't there before.

Then a yesterday i told her My laptop wasn't working and I needed to use hers. I use it occasionally anyway, yeah i just wanted check her Instagram and WhatsApp too While I was on it, I noticed her Instagram and WhatsApp were already logged in.

I know people will have opinions about that, but yes, I looked.Most of the conversations were pretty normal.

There was a chat with Ines, the woman who hosted the gathering.

The next evening Sofia messaged her saying:

"Thanks for hosting. It was a really fun night. I'm glad I came and I don't regret it."

The rest of the conversation was mostly about future events, including a gala Ines is hosting next week that Sofia plans to attend.

There was another chat with a guy named Ryan.

Honestly, nothing there. He just sent some photos from the concert and villa.

The conversation that bothered me most was with a guy named Marcus.

The day after the party he messaged her:

Marcus: "How are you? Feeling okay?"

Sofia: "Yeah, I'm okay. Just feeling a bit dizzy."

Marcus: "Get some rest this weekend. Don't stress yourself. Don't regret anything."

Sofia: "I don't regret anything. I'm an adult and I made some choices. But yeah, Gujo seems angry about it."

Marcus: "Don't worry about him. He's probably just jealous."

Sofia: "Haha, on point."

Marcus: "Let's catch up for lunch next week."

Sofia: "My schedule is busy, but I'll make time."

That conversation happened the day after the villa.

There were only a couple of conversations after that. One was about a fashion designer Marcus knows that could help Sofia professionally. The other was about a work project.

What bothered me more was finding out they actually did meet for lunch on Thursday.

Sofia never mentioned that to me. So that's where things stand right now. I still don't have proof that my wife cheated.

What I do have is a situation where she went to a private villa with wealthy men she'd just met, stayed until morning, took drugs, changed clothes there, told another person she didn't regret her choices, and has continued building relationships with some of the people she met that night.

Maybe all of that is innocent. Maybe it isn't. The problem is that for the first time in our marriage, I don't know what to think. I'm not looking to catch her in a lie or punish her for having friends.

I'm trying to figure out whether my trust has been damaged because something genuinely crossed a line, or because my imagination is filling in blanks where I don't have answers.

I participated in your first thread and I don't recall anyone saying you were overthinking this. There were varying opinions about how far things may or may not have gone, but the consensus was pretty solidly that at the very least a boundary discussion would be prudent.

I still don't think you're overthinking this, and most of us have gone into snoop mode with our spouse's devices at some point. Tho in your case I probably would have broached the subject with your wife first. The "no regrets" conversation, "he's probably jealous," and unmentioned lunch meeting definitely raises an eyebrow. Jealous of what, exactly?

I agree you don't exactly have a smoking gun, but there is a hint of gunpowder residue in the air.

What behavior at the villa does your W not regret? She is meeting the same guy for lunch without mentioning it to you. She does not seem to respect your feelings. Just jealous? You do not sound like the jealous type. You're not bothered by your W going out often for GNO and coming in very late, even though you have small children. You need to have a conversation.

Read and reread Bigger's post in your first thread. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:50 PM, Saturday, June 20th]

Derk, I hope I'm wrong about what I'm about to write. I really do.

Over the last week Sofia has felt a little different with me. Not dramatically. Just slightly colder.
...I feel like there's a distance there that wasn't there before.

My exww (ex wayward wife) left town on a Sunday morning for a trade-show (she traveled often for work). I picked her up at the airport Thursday evening. On the 20 minute drive home, I felt something was off. The greeting was odd, the tone of her voice, body language. None of it obvious. Just subtle. Over the next few days that feeling persisted. On Sunday I searched her phone. The text messages i read between her and OM (other man) were proof enough. Those text messages were from that morning. She'd slept with him the night before.

The messages you've read between your wife and Marcus may not be quite as explicit as the messages that I read. The fact that he reached out to her the very next day suggests a connection was made. That alone is a red flag. If there was nothing to regret, why mention regret at all? That is a massive red flag.

I trusted my instincts and they were right, unfortunately.

Again, I truly hope I'm wrong about this. I hope, for your sake, nothing happened. Sadly, I don't think I'm wrong.

OP, just for clarification, is Gujo you? I'm asking, because if it's you it may be that she means that you are angry about her going to the party, taking drugs, etc. and the guy jokes that you are jealous, because you missed out. That would explain the most suspicious part. It would show a dismissive attitude towards your feelings, something to discuss and work on. Also, if I can give you an advise, don't make her think that you are snooping, stay cool. Talk with her when you are sure that you won't find out anything more. Don't reveal to quickly what you know.

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 3:24 PM, Saturday, June 20th]

If you disclosed your name or nickname, I recommend editing it. At the upper right of your post, you should see an icon that looks to me like a slanted stick - or a slanted pen. Click it to edit.

What concerns me about your update is that you've got an issue with your W, and you're lurking around it. IMO, that's avoidance, and avoidance doesn't work.

You've got an issue. For most of my M, my W raised issues, although she certainly let them lie during her A. For 15-20 years, I've done it, too. My experience, over 80 years in life and over 58 years in M, is that gut-level issues don't go away.

My reco is:

Be honest.

Talk with your W about 'this' - the party and the lunch.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:19 PM, Saturday, June 20th]

I’m sorry Derk, these are not encouraging facts.

I'm trying to figure out whether my trust has been damaged because something genuinely crossed a line, or because my imagination is filling in blanks where I don't have answers.

Your trust has been damaged because your wife’s behavior crossed lines.

No, we don’t know for certain what happened - but the evidence you do have is not great. But when it comes to trust, your wife has behaved inappropriately and you have become reasonably concerned.

Think about it this way: when people discuss legal ethics, it almost all contexts people are held to the standard of actual impropriety. That is to say, you’re not guilty of an ethical violation unless you did something wrong. There are contexts, however, where a higher standard is called for. Politicians, judges, and other similar people are held to an "appearance of impropriety" standard. They are required to avoid situations where a reasonable observer would perceive their conduct as compromising their integrity. That standard doesn’t test whether anything bad happened.

The "appearance of impropriety" standard is fundamentally about trust.

Your wife has created an appearance of impropriety - that’s why your trust is damaged.

A few other thoughts:

- That email to Ines is weird:

"Thanks for hosting. It was a really fun night. I'm glad I came and I don't regret it."

Thanks for hosting it was a really fun night and i’m glad I came is super normal and polite. But the "and I don’t regret it" is odd. Was everyone trying to convince her to go?

- Martha and Carmen had a business trip the next morning? On a weekend? Head scratcher.

- I guess I could believe that Leonor could bring a change of clothes to a music festival. I really don’t believe that she’d bring two changes of clothes though. Did she go to the festival with a suitcase?

- the fact that Leonor’s H got the same story as you is good probably, or it means that Sofia and her coordinated their story.

- the email exchange and lunch with Marcus is incriminating. No part of it is appropriate. She’s complaining about you to another man. That’s disloyal, period full-stop. Not to mention the whole I don’t regret the choices I made bit.

ETA: the more I think about her text to Ines, the more I worry that this was some kind of sex party. I hope that’s wildly off base.

[This message edited by Letmebefrank at 5:07 PM, Saturday, June 20th]