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Oh wow, ThisIsSoLonely, your wayward sounds just like mine. On/off for two years. During the off periods, when she was "working on our relationship" she refused NC and texted the douchebag practically every day. Earlier this year it was especially bad, because during one of those supposed off periods when we were going to MC she was secretly having sex with him - all the times she was supposed to visit her family in NYC she visited him instead. Things became so toxic because she couldn't take my negativity about the situation and she just couldn't give him up.

The worst part right now are the nights. I know her bedtime, and I know her sexual appetite, and I know where she is every night. I get this increasing sense of dread and anxiety as the late night approaches and it's really hard to distract myself.

ShatteredSakura - My WH did have actual off/NC periods (I don't believe him but I spent a much of time/money on forensic analysis to trust that there really was a 3 month NC period) - and during that time he wanted me to be happy - he wanted that happiness back and simply could not stand talking about the A "all the time" (strangely, compared to a lot of people on here - we didn't - we had 2 days a week scheduled to talk about it and otherwise we tried to make things more "normal"). I was never going to "get beyond it" - yet how in the hell was I supposed to do that when out of 2 years post d-day1, the A was going on for at least 1 year and 4 months of it?!?!

That's why I know his brain is f-ed up. It's simply incomprehensible that he could even think I could get over something while it was still happening. The fact that he sees the periods of actual and true NC (which were 3 months in length) as some sort of magic window where I was supposed to: 1) trust that he really was NC, and 2) start feeling better...is fucking insane.

My worst parts are Sat nights to Sundays. When I know we were supposed to be together and have our movie night, date night or whatever. But now he's spending it with OW, with little to 0 care about all the problems he left me with. That makes me furious, cause if he left me with no financial troubles I would understand NC totally. But it's like he left me to work my ass of paying all the debts I incurred for supporting him with his business. The nerve.

ThisIsSoLonely,

The longest she supposedly went NC was one month. Everything else could be measured in days or weeks. Ironically for that one month she didn't really tell me (she acted like usual, hiding her phone and being a little suspicious) and I thought she was still talking to him. She complained that I didn't get more positive in that month, so she broke down from doing the NC...you'd think it would cross her mind to actually SHOW me she wasn't lying and she actually was doing NC. TBH maybe it was all a lie, she has a used car salesman's idea of what things mean.

He was her ex-BF who she kept as "just a friend" so before the PA she was talking to him constantly (and worked with him) for several years which caused a lot of tension. Within a year not working with him it becomes a PA...even back then I was accusing her she was emotionally cheating, but it was all deny deny deny.

yet how in the hell was I supposed to do that when out of 2 years post d-day1, the A was going on for at least 1 year and 4 months of it?!?!

The fact that he sees the periods of actual and true NC (which were 3 months in length) as some sort of magic window where I was supposed to: 1) trust that he really was NC, and 2) start feeling better...is fucking insane.

Yes!! That was her perspective too. Go NC for a day or two and I was supposed to act normal again, take her out, do romantic things, give her sex whenever she wanted. And if I didn't, then back to the douchebag...it felt like blackmail. Bringing up how I felt would be countered with "it's hard on me too" . It made me feel so used, that it was a time for *me* to comfort her and attend to her needs. Ya know, tough for her to give up someone who had no business being in her life anymore. Absolutely no time or help to heal.

And one of the biggest things I still fume about was how she'd sometimes say that the douchebag "felt guilty" about things. The freaking nerve to even say that!! How the hell is that supposed to make me feel better?

hopefullife,

I'm sorry to hear about that. Grade A assholery! Mine only left me with a messy house, at least she was always good about finances.

I can't take this. My friend is talking to the POSH and it aches that he is protecting this OW. Saying this OW told him a lot of times to end things properly with me so do not blame her since it's on him. That's true. All the shit decisions are his but it's so painful to be the one on the receiving end. Even after all the nice things and the years you had together, it's not you who matters. He can discard you. He is choosing someone else over you.

Reminder: when the narc wants nothing to do with you, you've won. Takes a while to understand this, but you're free. Take back your life!!!

I wish I could say surely he was a narc, so it will at least make sense. Whatever he is, I know he chose not just to hurt me, but to destroy me. There's something really wrong with a person who can do this to someone they claimed they used to love.

[This message edited by hopefullife at 7:10 AM, November 17th (Sunday)]

life moves on that kind of zig zag up and down way.

i would say only 10-20% of my day is thinking about her or the affair.

feelings that i carry around are feelings of loss, sorrow, and fear for her.

my mum couldn't understand this. i said to her "imagine you had a son who stole all your life savings and laughed in your face. you would rightly banish him away. you would cut him off. slowly you would save up adn getting your savings back and he is living on his own, a miserable existence. you would probably pine and worry for him and fear for him because he's your son. well she was my wife, who i loved, and she has fucked her whole life up and i worry for her."

my mum said "just worry for yourself." which is true. but i can't turn those dark feelings off.

do i want her back - no

do i love her - yes, but not enough to want her back and i am working on feeling less love all the time and the longer NC is in place, the less the love holds

do i forgive her - yes, because she's a hot mess, a fucking idiot

do i want anything to do with her - no, not a thing.

but still these horrible confusing feelings of worry adn dread for HER life. wanting her, ultimately, to find peace and happiness, like i do myself. do i want her to be trapped in ever lasting misery and regret and dispair? no, not now. i did. but now i know that i will be okay, i want her to be, too. i want her to be happy because, deep down, she is just a fuck up but that fuck up was my wife, who i loved. the healthy mechanism is my feelings having no contigency on her state/reality/feelings. i have to accept any outcome, one of which could be her ever lasting misery. and when i say she has fucked up, boy she has really FUCKED UP. she's got no one really apart from her kids. i think her and the OM are over, too.

all of this is part of the grim reality of "moving on" i guess. cycling through it all.

[This message edited by puffstuff at 9:56 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

i love the anger though when it comes. i roll around in it.

i should never loose sight of just how low went.

urgh that smirk and the fact that i was comforting HER after she told me.

evil manifest.

"when someone shows you who they really are, thank them".

i musnt' forget just what she put me through.

Indifference is a nice phase, but I missed the weird bouts or emotional bullshit. I'm usually so even keeled that whenever the system went back into levelheaded mode, I felt the absence of anger and sadness and all that stuff in between.

Time heals all wounds. But never forget the type of person they are. People don't fundamentally change and the past can't be rewritten. Stay away from the duds and use them to learn how to avoid their ilk.

This, Puff, makes you normal:

i said to her "imagine you had a son who stole all your life savings and laughed in your face. you would rightly banish him away. you would cut him off. slowly you would save up adn getting your savings back and he is living on his own, a miserable existence. you would probably pine and worry for him and fear for him because he's your son. well she was my wife, who i loved, and she has fucked her whole life up and i worry for her."

it's like they treat us worse than people treat enemies.

I've been thinking a lot about this for several days now. They are that sick to do this to people they swore to always love. Hits very hard.

I think I've been doing well lately, but today just felt horrible. It really is true you go back and forth the grief cycle thing. I just took a day off work for my mental health. I don't think I can function at work.

yes, hopeful - they are abusers, plain and simple. There's something at the core of them that allows this. This lack/presence is not within people like you and me.

In my my own experience, getting these people out of life and mind as quickly as possible is the quickest, safest way to recovery.

Another key has been, as AG suggested, to pull no punches, to cut out all denial, to look and keep looking, for all the crap that existed in the relationship. And the more I am away from her, the more I can see that yeah, that I was always just moving chairs around on the titanic - that there were issues that would never have got resolved. I was making the effort, mind, she wasn't. Put it to bed then, let go. Move on.

I have had about three or four consecuative weeks of peace and a sort of relative-happiness. I am doing surprisingly well, overall. Whole days where this abuser doesn't invade my head space. I have always figured that the amount of time i spend thinking correlates with a notion of "recovery". At the start 95% (no exaggeration!) of my thinking was dominated by her and the hurt, now it might be five or ten minutes in the morning, five or ten minutes midday and five or ten minutes in the evening. the rest if just plain old life, joy, pain, excitement, the usual tread mill we are all on. i hope she finds happiness. i hope i do too. i hope my kids are alright. i know no matter what happens i will be okay.

That’s good to hear Puffstuff. I’m the same as you. So much better than I was and only thinking about it in small bursts.

This thread went cold. I guess all the narcs in the world have retreated back into the Ninth Circle of Hell Our work here is done, everyone.

Here, I'll warm it up for you...I had the lovely "I hate you" screamed in my face recently and then a pretend like it never happened episode the following day. It's interesting because I can see it happening - he DOES hate me, more and more everyday.

What is odd to me is that I dislike him more and more everyday - but I can't bring myself to hate and really don't want to as I feel like hate is just more toxic energy in my life that I don't need. But in one way, he and I are the same now...

We are both just biding our time until my job ends, I move out and leave this geographical area for good, and we never see or talk to each other again. The difference is that I see him more and more or a broken and sad person - and he, he actually is hating me more and more all the time. It's crazy to me that this person used to look at me so differently...but it's been so long now, I simply cannot even remember what it was like. It's almost like the good memories are so overwritten by the bad ones that the good seems like a fabrication of my own memory instead of him just fabricating himself. My feelings for him then were real even if his were not as they seemed.

It's sad at this time of year. For the first time in a long time, he is not on my list. I know it's for the better - but I miss the life I thought I was going to have - and yeah, if I HAD to do this all over again and wasn't allowed to change anything that happened fundamentally, I guess I would have tried to enjoy the good times more as I am dreading this holiday season more than even the one right after d-day 1 or d-day 2.

Oh, and WH came home with a sweatshirt from "work" that is allegedly from one of the community sports teams some of his co-workers play on (that I've never heard about until now) - which I'm guessing was a joke gift from his AP (who is still married but that's not my problem anymore). The lies are just endless and I can seem to find some humor in it now. I actually considered making him think I was checking up on him again (not doing it in the least as I don't give a ****) just to make him go through his herculean efforts to trick me again as I'm pretty sure living that life was stressing him out...but I coudln't be bothered with that either.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:09 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)]

Christmas is doing me in 😖🤦‍♀️ Is anybody else struggling xx

Yes, I'm not a Christmas junkie or anything - but I have never not enjoyed the holidays, but this time, this time is different. I hate it - and want it over with. I'm sick of either brushing off people's questions regarding what are you doing this season? I don't want to lie but I don't want to answer either. I would personally just like to have a week off to go lie in bed somewhere with warm weather (I know - why would the weather matter if you were in bed anyway? IDK but it would, just knowing it was warm outside would be helpful). I am counting my days of this IHS like a prison sentence - it's like living with a ghost - WH is with his AP (although he would deny it if asked - but why bother - it doesn't matter anyway) and I'm left to sort of skirt the edges of what was our house.

I was invited to a holiday party last week and it was a potluck - and I like to cook (actually really enjoy it) yet, for the first time ever, I did nothing for it, aside from stopping at the store on the way there and picking up something store-bought, which was also pointless as I was so late that I could have gotten away with bringing nothing anyway (because I had to force myself to go at all and waxed between calling and saying I wasn't coming and just blowing it off altogether which is totally NOT me). That's how motivated I am for this season. UGH

What's happening in your world Bookgirl?

Here, I'll warm it up for you...I had the lovely "I hate you" screamed in my face recently and then a pretend like it never happened episode the following day. It's interesting because I can see it happening - he DOES hate me, more and more everyday.

What is odd to me is that I dislike him more and more everyday - but I can't bring myself to hate and really don't want to as I feel like hate is just more toxic energy in my life that I don't need. But in one way, he and I are the same now...

We are both just biding our time until my job ends, I move out and leave this geographical area for good, and we never see or talk to each other again. The difference is that I see him more and more or a broken and sad person - and he, he actually is hating me more and more all the time. It's crazy to me that this person used to look at me so differently...but it's been so long now, I simply cannot even remember what it was like. It's almost like the good memories are so overwritten by the bad ones that the good seems like a fabrication of my own memory instead of him just fabricating himself. My feelings for him then were real even if his were not as they seemed.

Every word you wrote here resonated with me. I also got a "I hate you" the other week, although we actually didn't talk almost all week after...but now, today she's writing "can you respond??" in texts.

This year, and last year, I've been without holiday cheer at Christmas. Since 2010, I started a Christmas cookie tin tradition where I'd make Greek Butter Cookies (and other assortments that varied year-to-year) for friends and family, and I'd ship them out about this time of year. Last year I got the boxes, tins, cards but had no motivation although I did make some cookies for just my parents and I (and WW at the time...). This year, absolutely zero motivation.

I always loved the line from Miracle on 34th Street, that Christmas isn't just a day, it's a frame of mind (I looked it up the other day, apparently a variation of the quote is attributed to Calvin Coolidge). I feel like there's a lot of truth in that, what Christmas represents and the values behind its meaning we should hold in our hearts year round.

A friend of mine who I haven't talked to in a long time reached out the other day to query about my address to send me a Christmas card. I was very touched to be thought of...and I hope maybe I won't be too down this Christmas.

ShatteredSakura, it's hard not to have that "what did I do in a former life to deserve this?" kind of moment when that shit happens. I know I didn't do anything (okay, maybe I did in a former life?!!? hehe) but it still sucks. You wonder how someone can manipulate their own reality to match their feelings like that so much. I guess it's the opposite of the hopium that a BS feels after being betrayed - but instead it's the hatium. With hopium, you can take any behavior that seems positive and turn it into a "maybe this is in indicator of change, which I want" even though it doesn't match the rest of their behavior. With hatium, maybe something a BS says or does can match the "I knew my BS is an asshole, which is why I did this in the first place and this small behavior proves that"...

I don't know but I am really hating this season, worse than last year (post dday2 which was 10/1/18) and much more than the year before (post dday1 which was 10/4/17). Maybe it's the total loss of hope. Maybe it's the reality that it's all done. Maybe it's just that I was doing all this shit I didn't really want to do before and I felt like I had to? Who knows - I can't wait until summer so I can GTFOOH.