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Why tell me at the beach that she would be willing to talk "soon" and then text my friend that she doesn't want to? Why not tell me when she saw me? Or text me herself? So immature and cruel.

For the same reason my ex originally told me it would be four months before she could see me having recently admitted she had no intent on ever getting back together when she told me that. It's to let us down easy. It's how they deal with the guilt.

Did you ask your friend to see the text she sent him? An "it's over" text is a pretty big deal not to share in its raw form, but that's just my opinion. In your earlier post you mentioned something doesn't feel right. Whether something isn't quite right, it doesn't matter. Not your circus not you monkeys. Focus on you.

And her not giving me an answer either way really makes it worse. Why tell me at the beach that she would be willing to talk "soon" and then text my friend that she doesn't want to? Why not tell me when she saw me? Or text me herself? So immature and cruel.

She chose to be indirect. It probably isn't the first time in 2 years that she hasn't be direct. That kind of communication style is hard to work with and I would guess it is possible she has resentment over things you never knew you did. Learn and watch for red flags in the next relationship.

Why tell me at the beach that she would be willing to talk "soon" and then text my friend that she doesn't want to? Why not tell me when she saw me? Or text me herself? So immature and cruel.

There's a saying that men are afraid women are going to laugh at them and women are afraid men are going to murder (or physically harm) them. Many women are taught through experience with prior interactions, or those that have happened to friends/family members that are shared among ourselves, that it is safer to agree to something in person then ghost or go back on it later, when they are physically safer.

We just don't know in this case what her prior experiences are, how she perceives you, etc. All we know is that she told you she didn't want to see you anymore, and yet here you are trying to figure out a way to convince her she's wrong, including approaching her when feelings are still raw. I can totally envision a scenario under which she felt unsafe and felt she had a better chance of escaping unharmed by telling you she'd be willing to talk soon when she had no intention of doing so. If you gave me an hour and I was bored, I could find dozens or hundreds of scenarios where a woman was hurt by a current or prior intimate partner for this or for less.

I think it's really hard for some people to understand this. My fight or flight mechanism is highly tuned to flight. My SO doesn't understand this at all, and thinks I'm ridiculously overcautious when I'm careful about where I park my car at night, or about crossing the street when something feels off, or by telling white lies to people I don't know to get them to leave me alone, etc. We've talked a lot about this, and he's starting to get it, but as a very tall and physically fit guy, he's never going to truly understand that fear.

I know I have been verbally threatened, yelled at, and physical violence has been attempted against me when I tried to have nice in-person conversations with guys I dated who wanted to continue to date me, and I was trying to be nice and explain why I wasn't interested. Before SO, when I was dating, after a few bad experiences, I always left it open at the end of a date, even if I knew there wouldn't be another one, out of concern for my safety.

It's easy to call her names, but it's a real concern that many women have to contend with when dealing with men who won't take no for an answer.

This may not apply to her, but it easily could. You got really good advice up thread. Realize that it's over. She sounds like she has some issues and that you weren't that great of a match. Start healing and getting ready so that when a lady who is a better match comes into your life, you will be ready for her!

Phmh, thanks for the direct advice. You make a lot of sense. I would never berate her or physically harm her, but I can understand that fear. Never even considered that. Still strange that she wouldn’t send me the text instead of my friend

I'm glad you took my thoughts in the helpful vein they were intended :) As I said, this may not have been her reason, but it is a reason why many women I know (including myself) may have said one thing in the moment without intending it. The fact that she told your friend something else is a huge red flag, and one of the reasons I also posted that it sounds like she has issues.

You sounds like a really great, kind, caring guy. I promise you that you will find a great lady, one who won't play games, and who will treat you like you deserve. One who is all-in on you and who wouldn't even have it in her character to ghost after that long of a relationship. The part where you're searching sucks and it's so unfair that all of the BSs on this website are put in this position. But just from your words, I can tell that you will find that special someone who recognizes how amazing you are!

Chili wrote:

I've been kind of loosely monitoring things here on SI and IRL with relationships during these strange days. I think it's some combination of "true selves" being revealed, coping skills, emotional strength/maturity and just the spotlight in general. Most people can't "pretend" for sustained periods right now.

This is a really interesting post and observation. I too have wondered how these unprecedented times (I hate that phrase now) plays subconsciously on people and their relationships. What if GTS didn't have to spend 6-weeks away from his ex. I wonder if life was normal whether I'd still be with mine. That said, if a relationship was that fragile, it has to all be for the best. My ex and I did all kinds of activities together - lots of concerts and events. It's almost like when those went away because of COVID, the soft underbelly of the relationship revealed itself and it couldn't stand on its own.

Interesting.

Kintsugi said:

from engaged to radio silence in almost a blink of an eye. She didn't share or communicate things she wasn't happy with, wouldn't work on anything, instead, just decided to leave saying she didn't see a future with me.

and

My ex and I did all kinds of activities together - lots of concerts and events. It's almost like when those went away because of COVID, the soft underbelly of the relationship revealed itself and it couldn't stand on its own

The first quote describes my existing relationship without the permanent leaving part. The 2nd quote also describes us...I now wonder if the time apart gave him a different set of eyes to see what we had, and in his mind we didn't have anything in common...Truth is, we never had a lot in common but somehow made it work. Not sure what changed.

I'm sorry, GTS, but I agree with the others in that she has been very clear about her intentions with you and it really is time for you to let her go. Believe me, we've all had to do this, and I don't like doing it again but we have it in us to go forward. Do you have a friend or friends that you can hang out with so that you don't get tempted to seek her out again?

I'm still in the process of divorcing my WW, and we've been together for more than a quarter of a century. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

But I think I've learned some valuable lessons from going through the experience of being betrayed and two of them are:

1. Stop pedestalizing women.

2. Do not play the pick me dance game.

You're doing a version of both, and this lady doesn't sound like much of a catch.

You've placed her on a pedestal that even subconsciously says she's more valuable than you are and fear that you won't find someone with equal value as her. You're playing a version of the pick me dance with her by texting again and again.

I've learned that I will always treat women with honesty integrity and respect -- and I'll expect the same from them. The minute they stop doing that for me, it's goodbye and have a great life.

The first text should have been something like "Hey, we seem to be broken up and I didn't get the memo. If you're available to talk I'd like to understand more. But if not, hope you have a great life."

And then radio silence, my friend.

Or better yet, when you realized she'd already sent you down the social media memory hole, never texted her at all.

You're just feeding her ego with all of the texts and approaching her at the beach.

Unless you're omitting something, she sounds pretty weird and cold. Her behavior in dropping you is not only immature, it is cruel. And on top of this to taunt you with social media, and then accuse you of stalking her when she already knew you were at the same beach and she'd already pushed your buttons.

It reeks of manipulation. You've been playing her game. The best thing you can do is STOP texting her, next her and move on.

Don't spend too much time puzzling over crazymaking behavior either. That's what crazymakers do. It's just who they are.

Start adopting a ZFG, no games, and next-when-you-start-acting-weird stance. Get in the habit of nexting such people when they start playing games. There are a lot of other fish in the sea.

Also, I hate to assume some form of infidelity in every case, but unfortunately human nature being what it is and that I've learned to be very cynical when someone begins acting in this way, it stands to reason that during the six weeks you were apart she met someone else and then looked for a pretext to drop you.

That doesn't make the other hypothetical fella better than you, and now you know this woman is the kind of woman who ghosts people for stupid shit, so good news there for you. You dodged a bullet of not spending more time with an immature person who acts like a 9 year old.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:49 PM, September 10th (Thursday)]

/tj/ phmh, thank you for your insights regarding cautious women. It’s just proven to be very helpful to me in starting to date a similarly cautious woman.

phmh, thank you for your insights regarding cautious women. It’s just proven to be very helpful to me in starting to date a similarly cautious woman.

I was on a first date the other night which seemed to go fairly well. Being the gentleman I am I offered and did walk my date to her car as she voiced she could take care of herself, which I agreed I have no doubt but onward we went thinking I was being the perfect gentleman.... so on to the secluded elevator and to the vacant parking garage we went. She couldn't get into her car fast enough. She was visibly concerned so I parted about 50 feet from her car. After an exchange a few days later, "that was fun I enjoyed it"... she deleted our match. Maybe it didn't go so well, lol.

[This message edited by Kintsugi at 5:03 PM, September 10th (Thursday)]

Then yesterday morning, one of my best friends who was also with me at the beach told me that she texted him Sunday night to tell him I had found her on the beach. He didn't screen shot the text to send to me, so I don't know what to believe, but he said she told him she didn't want to talk to me, and that it's over.

Interesting....and very odd.

He told me I shouldn't have gone over there and "stalked" her. I was floored. I didn't consider what I did to be "stalking". I'm not sure if he's hiding something, or if he wants to date her (he just started dating a woman 3 months ago that he seems to really like), but something is definitely not right. Every one of my friends besides him believes that she is acting immature and overreacting about everything. He's the only one who doesn't think it's odd that she won't talk with me.

Have you considered your "friend" may not be your friend.....

Sometimes people speak the loudest and send the clearest messages with silence and actions.

Based on what you share she’s screaming at you – only not verbally.

I would consider sending her a message telling her that were surprised at her decision, it’s not what you expected and that you would be willing to work on things but you will respect her will and leave her be. If she wants to reach out to talk she knows where you are.

And then you move on.

Whatever you do – don’t allow this encounter to change you into a red-pill.

Thanks for the love guys and gals. I'm still really struggling with this. I called her brother-in-law yesterday (the husband of her sister who was at the beach with her) because it was his birthday. After I wished him happy birthday, he asked how I was doing. He told me he didn't think this was over, and that she is probably just mad. He thinks she at least owes me a conversation. Not sure that will happen. I called her and left a voicemail this morning asking if we could get together to talk this weekend. It didn't go directly to voicemail, so I don't think I'm blocked, but the lack of response is not good. I'm holding out hope that she just isn't ready to talk "yet", and that perhaps she will calm down and reach out to me soon.

I scanned the posts on your thread. I don’t really recall any of them suggesting ongoing contact.

The answer to this is simple (coming from someone who has basically done the same thing):

Why tell me at the beach that she would be willing to talk "soon" and then text my friend that she doesn't want to? Why not tell me when she saw me? Or text me herself? So immature and cruel.

It's a combination of cowardice and conflict avoidance - something, sadly, I used to struggle with (still do, but not to the extent I used to). No one wants to hurt someone else (okay, most people don't want to). Some people would say it's some sort of ego boost, knowing someone is pining for you and not wanting to break off that "I'm awesome" contact - for me that was NOT the case. Avoiding someone, trying to give them the "casual hint" I was no longer interested, telling them we could talk but not wanting to - all of that was cowardly avoidance on my part - avoidance of hurting someone and avoidance of having to "talk about why" because sometimes I had no idea what the answer to "why" was. It just wasn't working for me anymore - and that is the old "it's not you, it's me" and while it would have been totally true in the instances I am thinking of, it sounds like a cop-out bullshit way of lying to someone.

Either way, I'm 99.9% certain that cowardice/conflict-avoidance is your answer here. Part of my moving past that is reading things like this, and my own experience with infidelity and a conflict avoidant WH who hurt me 1000 times more than he ever would have had he just been honest from the get-go. I'm sorry you are here, and that this has to serve as another reminder of how much the old me sucked.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 12:33 PM, September 11th (Friday)]

Gottheshaft,

I really think you need to let this cool off. Women are so different from men. We men typically want to fix things right away, its similar in situations like an affair. Either way, remember, chasing them at moments like these will only make you look weak and clingy. NO WOMEN wants desperate and clingy. I would believe that you have done a lot more harm than good by chasing her at this moment. Not only is it kind of disrespectful, but its almost stalkerish.

Women are emotional beings. She has spent some time prior to the break up, going through her emotions and its probably taken her a lot to get to this point. You unfortunately are working from behind b/c you never knew all of these emotions were working behind the scenes, and have been bothering her. No different then an affair. Typically, the WWs have been unhappy for months and yrs, and the door cracks and they let another man in. Thats not to say that its right, or even that your GF is cheating but that something has been bugging her for some time. You're not going to magically just change her mind by saying something or promising something b/c its been bugging her for awhile. No matter what you say, she is going to remain skeptical b/c she has seen that there are things that you do that bother her. The shitty part about it is that she never told you. Just like in affairs, men don't find out that something is bugging their wives b/c they are piss poor at telling us, or like phmh said, conflict avoidant and the unhappiness cracks that door for someone else to come in and create a vision of something better.

Right now, you need to chill out. Regardless if you fix this with her or not, you are looking weak. Weakness is not a sexy trait, nor one that will make her want to just throw herself back at you. Break ups are hard, but like an affair, start working on you. Create a better you, one that maybe she can see having a future with, and if she doesn't come back, you;re still moving forward. But calling her brother in law, sister, accosting her at the beach, dude, give her some time. Have faith that things will work out, but your tactics are pushing her away. You don't need to say anything else, its loud and clear you want to talk to her, and you want to clear things up. DON"T TELL her that again. She already knows.

Let her decide if that is what she wants. You will have a better chance if you do. Right now, by continuing to push her and push her, you are just showing her that you are not listening to her. Maybe thats all she wanted, is for you to listen to her, and you have just proven that rather than listen to her, you are just going about things your way. Does that make sense.

Brother, we are here for you, but you gotta listen.

^^^^^ 110% ACCURATE ^^^^^

GTS - DO NOT CONTACT HER!

Adding: She knows how you feel. The only feelings that matter right now are HERS. You need to do the opposite of what your brain is telling you.

With each contact by you, you lessen her emotional attraction for you. It was already low enough for her to break it off. No contact and, distance, space and resulting anxiousness that you might not always be there will raise her curiosity and may get her to eventually contact you. You should not contact her nor respond to her if she reaches out to you UNTIL she has something of SUBSTANCE to say. Do not respond to breadcrumbs that serve to feed her ego, her curiosity and reinforce she could get you back at any time.

Seriously, google "The Art of Love" podcast on youtube and listen to the No Contact and Breakup videos by Lucia. They are mostly about 5-10 minutes long and will save you from making mistakes that you will REGRET.... like I did just a few short weeks ago, unable to control my impulses to do the very thing YOU are doing NOW. It wasn't until I began to listen to these podcasts was I able to get a handle on things and go NO CONTACT with my ex and gain some self-respect. Trust this advice, you are a stones throw from getting blocked.

[This message edited by Kintsugi at 2:55 PM, September 11th (Friday)]

She said what she said at the beach because of this

It's a combination of cowardice and conflict avoidance

I agree with all the advice that you need to back off from contacting her. Listen to the podcasts and the advice.

I get that you feel you need an explanation and closure. But the fact that she's behaved like this is a type of explanation. She's a conflict avoiding coward. That's what you need to be taking away.

And I'm sorry because I know it hurts. ((()))

Thanks for the tough love everyone. You are all so right. This stinks and I’ve made it worse. I’m done trying with her.

GTS

I would also add this. Try and look at this objectively. She had issues and never discussed them with you. She decides to bail without any real explanation. She obviously holds you and your feelings in very little regard. Is this someone you really want in your life? I’m sure you’ve heard the expression “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.”. She has shown her true self to you. Mourn the relationship but move on. You will save yourself a whole lotta heartache down the road.