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Go Superesse! That's a big step! I feel you on the working dog breed challenges, ha ha. I have an Aussie and he is a genius. Doesn't chew things, luckily, but oh boy he is insane. He's just slowing down now at 6.

Skeeter, I wound up with extra dogs, but I am a crazy dog person, lol. I have 6. Two were intentional, the rest just needed homes. Puppies are A LOT of work for sure. I did bring home a Pomeranian from the shelter I work with this year because he kept getting returned for being aggressive. He is mean, but he's my baby. He's almost 9. Aside from him wanting to kill all strangers who get within 20 feet of me, he's actually really easy. If you do get dog-fever, it might be worth looking for an adult dog to adopt. That is often a whole lot less work. Try to hold off until the breakup mania has passed though! We all get a little crazy in that phase!

I have a herding dog too, Dee. He's also a genius. I don't recall when he calmed down but he was never hyper except maybe the first year. Aside from barking at dangerous things like FedEx trucks he's been a dream.

Yes, I always said I'd adopt a senior next time around. It's got to be tons easier.

Dee, Thanks for the cheer! Wish you could go with me so you could think of the right questions to ask during a short 1 hour consult!

The last time, the lawyer thought I was asking him to prepare something he didn't know how to do - something between a Post Nup and a Divorce Property Settlement Agreement! Which, by my persistence I may add, I finally persuaded him to draft and it all worked out as it was intended.

Since one of the main clauses of that Marital Agreement has become a moot point (SAWH just sold the home I'd given him), I want to hear the lawyer tell me all is still OK with it, or tell me it needs to reflect current reality. I am betting he will tell me the latter.

I also want to ask what the lawyer will likely think is yet another stupid question: which path puts me at more risk financially: maintaining this IHS Limbo with Agreement(s)OR just Divorcing? Last time, the lawyer told me 99% of the time when someone sees him, what they want is a Divorce, ASAP. And that's understandable, if I wanted to date or go "man shopping" - but I DON'T!!! ACK. 2 time loser at 69? No F'in way. Being all alone way out in the country, also a bit challenging. IF I STAY HERE. BIG IF.

I believe have no real need to conjoin finances at this stage of my life (thankfully) so I have started to face my fears more about living in a shoebox in my old age...(If I file for D, SAWH will lose half his 401k...not sure he realizes that little detail!) So, Divorce might be best, wrenching as it will be after all these years of "waiting and hoping he'd change."

If the lawyer tells me there's no tangible benefit to me filing D, I'd like to go away reassured, BUT...I'm honestly scared about letting him stay around with us not being legally SPLIT, just so I may benefit from the practical help around the farm he offers (and he does), only to find out a couple years down the road that maybe he's racked up staggering debt behind my back, as he did this last few years. I'm all too aware that, from here on out, he won't have a spare house to sell to get himself solvent.

And you all know how they don't mind sticking it to us...he'd never tell me this, until it was too late for me to find out...One question I will sure have for the lawyer is "Could his obligations come back on me, even with the legal Agreement we've had?" (I keep reading on SI how some states don't honor Marital Agreements but his Paralegal had assured me what we had signed was ironclad, even for creditors he might have.) I don't really know...

And then too, if SAWH were to become disabled or sick, who's going to deal with that? Y'all know the answer to that one....yeah.

So at this point, I suspect D is the way to go, even though I don't hate him, and I can never forget that he's provided a lot of good in my life, other than I cannot TRUST the F'r any further than I can throw him. I just want to get the HECK out of this stuck place. Starting over at 70 doesn't really sound do-able, but I have heard a few ladies have done this...probably mostly wealthy women.

Then, against those optimistic stories, I observe things like today: I took a box of my home-grown tomatoes to the Food Pantry in our town and saw the line out the door, everybody 6 feet apart, waiting with their masks on, to be allowed to go in and get some free food. Whereas, there I was, bringing in the bounty of a crop I planted just for this reason. I am not suffering hunger. These were women my age and much younger, basically all middle class looking, yet for whatever reasons, they don't have enough money to buy groceries, now! It really makes you think. I told the one older woman who thanked me, that I'd grown them for HER. We always think we have it bad, until we see how others have to live.

Puppy Love Talk:

I love my old 13 year old Lab-Shepherd-Wolfie dog so much I can't stand it. I'd only gotten a girl dog because "experts" said 2 males may fight for territorial rights and our old boy is rather Alpha. Well, this girl dog is too much. I'll never get another female. People tell me the "bitches bark the most" and every time I see somebody with a loudly-barking dog, I ask if it's a female. It always is. Huh....

Plus, she is manipulative, wily, coy, acts helpless and baby-like to get attention, the whole bit. Breeder said that is her being Alpha female, but I don't know. I suspect she was bottle-fed as a baby, one of 12 pups. So she "thinks" she's human.

My dilemma now is that this girls' full sister will be having a litter next month, the breeder said it will be her last one, and I could reserve a male puppy! I'd originally hoped to breed our girl but she had ovarian issues from birth, and had to be late spayed. This breeder doesn't sell to just anyone. So, although it's not the urgency of a Rescue puppy, I'm feeling tempted, and tell myself:

a) the old dog won't like it, one bit, if I get a male!!! Even though he's been neutered for 11 years.

(b) it would again be crazy time with a new puppy, and with me trying to break free of this whole situation, a big part of my mind says this isn't the time to get another one, much as I'd LOVE to have the girl's "nephew"!

(c) 3 large dogs won't work well with my truck. I have her in the biggest car crate you can buy and the old boy has to squeeze himself onto a crate mat on a plywood platform (we took out the back seat of the truck, just for them!). He loves to imagine himself young again, running with the truck as he used to do. He's too old and arthritic to do that now.

(d) vet bills, yikes!

Sigh. Always decisions, decisions....

Dee, not sure how you manage multiple doggos! But you may have the space and the talent....

Skeeter, you travel? Yikes. This is why I got the RV last year, to try to give some options for traveling with the dogs. If you fly, you can't bring them with you, and Amtrak doesn't allow them, either. Hmmmmm.

[This message edited by Superesse at 5:25 PM, September 17th (Thursday)]

Superesse,

I think you're kind of in the same boat as me - it's an awkward time to get a puppy, with the transitions we have ahead. My dog is way too big and now, too old to travel. I wouldn't even subject him to a long road trip at 13. And the prospective new puppy looks like a bruiser as well.

I can relate on the financial front. I never felt at ease being legally yoked to my husband once I found out the debt he'd gotten into with his hooker habit. It's so dumb - we could have gotten an investment property if he didn't spend every penny he had. Why do these guys insist on keeping themselves behind the eight-ball financially? I guess because they know how to find mommies to bail them out and/or put roofs over their heads.

If you divorce, would you be open to your XH staying on at the farm in exchange for rent? I don't know how onerous it is for you to live with him or if you're looking to completely sever ties, but maybe that would be a solution? Even when I was considering R, I'd have preferred to do it divorced, for the financial peace of mind. You could give your ex 6-12 months to stay on while you get your ducks in a row.

Well, I returned three pairs of shoes - that felt good - what a waste of running around - first buying and then returning. I'm a little bonkers right now.

Skeeter, yes you and I have a lot of parellel stuff going on.

I am glad you decided to keep a couple of those shoes you treated yourself to. They won't go to waste, will they?

I'll have to think about this whole scenario with him staying on the property...there are arguments both ways. We also have a wooded lot across the road that we bought right before D-Day 2. He's talking about clearing the land (with money from the sale of "his" house) but unfortunately, the lot is in BOTH of our names, even though he paid for it with part of his inheritance. (But by putting the money into a joint account and then titling it in both our names, he lost the right to claim it as "Separate Property" per my lawyer.) Again, not sure he even thinks like this. He is in DENIAL as always...

Yet that could be worked out, I'd take some cash for my interest and let him go build himself a little house with a big shop for his car repairs. If the county zoning would allow it...another hurdle. THEN it's like "What do I want to see going on across the street?" Ya Know? :o

Thanks you lovely friends from SI. I almost burned the chicken breast because I used such a small pyrex dish to bake it in at 425. It spat olive oil all over the oven floor, gas stove. I had to throw open all the doors, and he's out there grilling his freakin' dinner! (I hate cooking, also...)

How's Black Raven today?

Postscript on the dinner fiasco: he brought the chicken breast in on a cookie sheet he'd taken it outside on, still sitting in the Pyrex dish I had tried to bake it in...which had Shattered into 6 pieces when he set it on the cold metal side tray....

He had tried to grill the chicken breast STILL IN THE PYREX!!! :)

OMG - yeah, maybe it's a cheater thing because my STBX was a disaster in the cooking department. I found out shortly after he moved in that he was putting grilled meats back on the plate he'd used when they were still raw - without washing the plate! He fought tooth and nail with me about how this was perfectly safe. Then, I got giardia and nearly croaked.

OMG that's even worse...these guys must have flunked out of Cub Scouts....not sure if cluelessness in the kitchen is a Cheater trait, BUT what it tells me, is their whole philosophy: they don't need to learn anything their MOTHER ever did for them! ...And that says Volumes about their fundamental lack of R.E.S.P.E.C.T. for the part of family life their Mothers likely provided...So, where did their disrespect really come from....somebody has probably already written that book.

It's tough, Superesse. Divorce was easier for me in some ways because he had nothing left by the time I could file. Drug addicts don't tend to hold onto anything they could sell. So easier in the sense of no property to split, harder in the sense of no property to split, lol. You aren't young anymore, but you aren't done either. You could have a great many years ahead of you to spend however you like and you damned sure deserve that. I don't know what's best for you, of course. Only you know that. I would absolutely love to be able to go with you to the attorney, though I'd be out of my depth, ha ha ha. I didn't have to do anything much for my divorce. All the decisions were made for me in a way. Start over by myself was my only option. I had to cash out my 401k to buy my house. Still pissed about that, but I can't change it now. One thing you don't have when married to an unemployed crackhead is savings.

Thankfully all of my dogs are small! I've had 100lb+ dogs earlier in life and now my largest is around 30lbs. They're a group of misfits for the most part. Two were intentional purchases from breeders. The other four needed homes. Abused, starved, neglected, aggression problems...they needed some help. I basically have 5 assholes and 1 sweet dog, ha ha ha. Two are Chihuahuas, one is a Chihuahua/Pit Bull mix (on purpose...people are dumb), one mini-Australian Shepherd, one Pomeranian, and one Beagle. I don't need too much space for them, thank goodness. They have run of the house and a fenced-in backyard. I'm never lonely at night because each and every one has to touch me sleeping in the bed...but boy is it crowded! I wouldn't change it, though. They're my babies. They've helped me so much through this madness. I'm glad that I can give them a home and plenty of love. No more, though...I am frozen at 6. That's a lot of dogs!

Dee - six dogs!! Omg - that's great that you have your little pack of misfits! My dog has always been called an asshole by other people because he's so alpha but he's a love with me.

The puppy is coming for a visit today. I've pretty much decided it's a No though. I don't know that I have the wherewithal right now and if life gets back to normal I don't need the added stress of arranging dog sitting for two dogs, a cat and chickens. There will always be dogs that need homes so there's time.

they don't need to learn anything their MOTHER ever did for them! ...And that says Volumes about their fundamental lack of R.E.S.P.E.C.T. for the part of family life their Mothers likely provided...So, where did their disrespect really come from....somebody has probably already written that book.

My STBX has this weird affinity for women - he bonds and charms and befriends women like magic. Seemingly, he loves women. Every woman he meets either wants to mother him or fuck him. He was raised by women and knows how to talk to them and he plays the perfect gentleman, yet underneath I think he bitterly hates/resents women. His mother was a piece of work for sure and his sister is a pathological, lying grifter, worse than him in some ways.

Sometimes it feels like I let evil into my home and it chills me.

I don't have as much as I'd like for retirement either being self-employed my whole life and often a SAHM. I'd hoped my husband and I together could add to the investments. He's got a decent salary and our overhead was low, but he blew it all on hookers. I have no idea what he's done with his 401k - it's not something I've had access to and I'm not pursuing my half in the divorce. We weren't married that long and I don't want to give him any excuse to battle me.

OMG you get to play with a puppy today! That's pretty awesome. That is absolutely therapy. You don't need to keep the puppy to get the therapeutic benefits of all the cute.

I have a lot of thoughts on all of the discussion that's been going on the past few days, but no time right now unfortunately!

I did see this and thought of you ladies though.

Keep up with that NC!

I just want to get the HECK out of this stuck place. Starting over at 70 doesn't really sound do-able

(((Superesse))) you deserve peace of mind. I just recently separated from my STBX and I don't feel stuck anymore it really is freeing. I think you can start over at any age and being alone isn't all that bad I'm actually enjoying it. I felt alone and abused with STBX. I have no plans to cohabitate with another person again. I just do not see the positive in it anymore. The person would REALLY have to enhance my life in some way. Plus I have trust issues I would bring to the table.

My STBX has this weird affinity for women - he bonds and charms and befriends women like magic. Seemingly, he loves women. Every woman he meets either wants to mother him or fuck him. He was raised by women and knows how to talk to them and he plays the perfect gentleman, yet underneath I think he bitterly hates/resents women. His mother was a piece of work for sure and his sister is a pathological, lying grifter, worse than him in some ways.

Wow I could have written the same about my STBX it's scary! Even his sister has issues. Their mom fucked them up bad and neither of them think they have any issues it's mindboggling.

crazyblindsided, thanks for your support, too! Not sure what will be my course of action just yet...wish I knew anyone IRL who had to eject from this kind of marriage THIS late in life...but I just don't.

I'm afraid I'm not so slowly evolving into Maxine, the cranky, opinionated old cartoon broad...here's a good example, for you: had an appointment today for eye laser treatment to break up a floater. It was the first time, so I didn't know what to expect. They'd asked me to watch a video online between my last appointment and today, so I did. You know how one video on youtube has a lot of related ones to watch? Well, I watched a few of them. Educating myself.

So based on the video testimonies, I was expecting maybe 20-30 laser blasts (makes a loud noise and sends energy into the eye gel.) This doctor kept going, up to 300! Then he wondered why I was a bit antsy. When he got done he commented I was a better patient than he had expected me to be.

I asked him if he thought I was going to freak out, or what. He said "You asked about the number of laser blasts; nobody has ever asked me that before." This guy is a Top DC Eye surgeon, and very impressed with himself, I can tell. I explained I just did what I'd been told to do, watched their video and some patient testimonies. He clearly thought I'd gone overboard with my homework assignment....

Next, he asked me to look straight into a super bright beam of light - which I guess I hesitated a second to do (because, ouch!) and he chided "You aren't listening to me. I wonder what is going on with you?"

I had to laugh and say "I have a dog like that!" (And y'all know how many times I've said this same thing to SAWH? A million times. OMG! I'm coming across as a garrulous old woman, intimidating the eye surgeon? Story of my life!) I told him I was a former building inspector-construction engineer, and aren't folks like that the worst patients? He said "Yes! Especially engineers!" (He still wanted me to just shut up, I could tell!)

But I was getting feedback that I'm not overly-compliant!! I wasn't a sweet little old hen....maybe all this crap has made me a little bit of a pill?!

Skeeter, you must be quite the businesswoman! The down side of self-employment is what my SAWH has had to deal with: his income is entirely dependent on his daily efforts. The day he stops fixing these old cars is the day he stops earning a living. And then getting paid is always an adventure: right now, he has waited over 3 weeks for a healthy invoice payment from one of the richest men in America, who happens to be out of state, vacationing somewhere- who knew. To that man, this bill is just spare change. To my SAWH, it's his next month's bills and will pay his staggeringly hgh health insurance premium.

You can see why, going forward, I need to clarify the financial risks with him versus without him? He's 62, too old and highly-qualified for most employers to want him (though they cannot legally admit that) but too young for his best Social Security. He used to make the big bucks as an employee. If he still had that job, my decisions would be so simplified!

I love it that you're not a sweet little old hen, lol. There is nothing wrong with being a bit Maxine! I plan to be a fairly obnoxious little old lady myself, ha ha ha. You just busted a stereotype for this man and he'll have to get over it.

Superesse, I'd rather be a Maxine than a sweet old lady.

I'm so over being gaslit, ordered around and talked down to by men. I almost got into it with a guy at the park who's dog was getting aggressive with my dog. He tried minimizing what was happening - wrong woman buddy. I will rip your face off, the way I'm feeling these days.

Doctors are the most condescending. They don't feel they should be questioned about anything - it's our bodies for God's sake!!

I have managed being self-employed because I have a disabled child and it was never possible for me to work full-time. I just didn't ever have that kind of support with my son. I've scrimped and saved and hustled my ass off to build up some security for my old age but man, I see friends who had salaried career jobs retiring with huge pensions and I'm a bit demoralized. Life is trade offs I guess.

Dee - Puppy play date complete - not adopting. That thing peed 3 times in ten seconds - twice on a new rug. That was all I needed to realize I am so not up for this right now. Sadly, he wasn't the cuddly type - I think they were born in the wild or abused and dumped. His little tail is broken or was broken and he's terrified of people. He liked my dog and my dog liked him but he was very anxious having the puppy here.

HHADL - I love that quote. Thanks for posting!

CBS these men are really quite paradoxical - they love and hate women at once. He inspired such intense nurturing feelings in me. I wouldn't say that's my norm with men at all. I tend to go for provider/protector types yet I wanted to protect him and take care of him. He seemed so sweet despite having had a hard life and chaotic upbringing. Little did I know the monster who lurked beneath the surface.

Skeeter, my personal opinion is: you dodged a bullet on that poor pup. He was probably peeing from anxiety - or terror.

We know what it's like to deal with these flawed human beings, whose mothers or fathers abused or neglected them, and the same can happen to puppies, with similar outcomes, in some respects. (Dee has more experience with rescues, and maybe she would disagree), but it has been my experience that not every abused animal will make an easy adaptation; they have so many issues to overcome. (I know an experienced horsewoman who adopted a wild mustang through the Bureau of Land Management. One day, she opened the stall door and it kicked in half her face!)

I've used that pee removal product called Nature's Miracle to eradicate smells that may encourage another dog to mark the same spot. Sorry about the new carpet....but yes....puppies pee!

And doctors like this one today I saw, are probably a bear to work for, or....OR...Superesse is just too darned Alpha!

[This message edited by Superesse at 3:57 PM, September 18th (Friday)]

Yeah, I work with and take in the ones who just aren't quite ready for prime time. I don't tend to do that with people, but there is nothing on earth that gives me more personal satisfaction than rehabilitating a dog. I'm the dumbass who crawls into kennels and soothes scared and abused German Shepherds and the like, lol. There are so many rescue dogs who are just perfect and easy to rehome. So many others had bad lives and amaze me with their ability to just trust and become fantastic companions. Then there are the ones I wind up with in my home and spend more time with at the shelter. The one I took home from the shelter is an example. He was in the shelter for a year and a half, adopted out and brought back 6 times. They had decided that he was unadoptable, so they let me take the baby home instead of euthanizing him. He's a gorgeous purebred Pomeranian and got lots of interest at the shelter, but he has profound trust issues. I don't know what happened to him in his life, but he's 8 now and is not likely to change too much. I worked with him a long time and have a strong bond with him, so he does trust me. The difference between people who are fucked up and dogs who are fucked up is, in my experience, once they bond with you, they tend to love you hard and not betray you. That little Pom melts in my arms. He will bite those he doesn't know and it takes him a while to trust. On the other hand, I have a Chihuahua who was starved and abused who I have to drug in order to trim her nails because she becomes a raging demon (worse than the norm for her breed, lol). Despite my experience with my XWH and not being really codependent with people, a damaged dog melts me right down to my soul. My one true talent in life is being good with frightened and aggressive dogs. I need to open a shelter called Lil Bastards for all these mean little guys, ha ha ha.

I'm coming around to profoundly appreciating animals. My dog has been my constant companion for 12.5 years now. He's so loyal, never needs a leash, smart as a whip, affectionate and sweet and protective. I always feel safe with him in the house. He's not one of those dogs that barks and then wags his tail at strangers - he would bite someone if they were aggressive, I have no doubt. And no one he doesn't know can get close to him unless I give them the okay. Some people he never warms to for whatever reason. He loves when I have a crowd of friends over, being a herding dog - makes him feel like he's living the life.

Now, that he's so old I'm really feeling how strong the bond is and how lucky I've been to have him in my life.

And I pray he doesn't get any ideas from the damn puppy pee. I poured vinegar on it. Hopefully that's sufficient. The puppy was definitely a submissive peer. I had a dog like that many years ago and she never outgrew it. Whenever a new person entered the house, she peed. Argh. But she was a lovely dog.

I'd love to have kept the puppy and worked with him but my old guy get's priority. It would be really too much for him.