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I did it for entirely selfish, stupid reasons. There had been no intimacy in my marriage for a long time. We had been unable to discuss it or work on it. I have very low self esteem and wanted to talk to someone who understood.

All affairs are selfish and stupid. Those are surface reasons. You need to dig a lot deeper.

If you aren't blameshifting, why did you mention the lack of intimacy in your explanation? You are blameshifting. You don't see it yet, but you absolutely are.

Low self esteem is part of the reason. So thats a start.

What do you mean, you wanted to talk to someone who understood? Understood what,exactly?

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:08 PM, April 7th (Wednesday)]

His wife needs to be told. Since he hasn't told her, and it seems your husband hasn't, then yes, you tell her.

You made the decision to have an affair with her husband. You were ok with that. But you aren't ok with telling her the truth? You've already interfered for the wrong reasons..why not do it for the right reasons?

No longer being a wayward is more than just no longer cheating. It's doing the right thing. Being honest. Even when it's hard.

You need to call her and tell her. And don't warn the OM first. Your husband will see that as another betrayal..that you are protecting OM.

Why wait for your husband to ask for a polygraph? Why not take the initiative,?

Waywards who want reconciliation, are proactive in helping heal the damage they've caused. You can start by being honest with his wife.

Exactly what work are you doing on yourself, to become a safe partner?

@HellFire

I understand that being a wayward is about being honest, even when it's hard. But I stand by my decision that it is not my place to tell his wife.

It's got nothing to do with protecting the OM, it's what I genuinely feel is right.

Although I haven't spoken about this with my H, I know him well enough to know that it's not something he would want to do.

Yes I interfered in their marriage,but who is to say what their relationship is like, what has been discussed, agreed... just because you may feel it's the 'right thing' doesn't mean it is in my book. How do you know she would want to know? We're not all the same..

I proactively want to heal the damage I've caused with my husband, but I want nothing more to do with my AP and certainly nothing to do with his wife.

Your book is wrong.

You are making excuses because you don't want to tell her.

If it's been discussed and agreed upon, then there is no harm in you telling her what she already knows. At the very least, you could apologize.

Again..in what ways are you being proactive? IC is one of the many,many,many things you should be doing. Just doing IC, and waiting with your fingers crossed, isn't nearly enough.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:45 PM, April 7th (Wednesday)]

@HellFire

I'm not making excuses because I don't want to tell her. I'm explaining why I don't think it is for me to tell her.

How would that help my H?

I'm having IC, I'm taking complete responsibility for what I've done, I'm trying to give my H space. I don't know what else to do right now. My H doesn't want to talk about anything, he's told me he doesn't want to know any of the details. I'm genuinely asking for advice, I want to be proactive, I want to do whatever I can to make things work if possible and to give my H whatever he needs. I don't know what I should do that is best for him.

I'm just saying there was a lack of intimacy.... I tried talking about it on a number of occassions.... And I'm fully aware that I should have made my H listen and talk

This leads me to believe that what you perceived as a lack of intimacy wasn’t viewed the same by your husband- (Are you saying a “lack of intimacy” or are you saying “less sex than you wanted?”) Consequently making him listen was destined to fail in resolving different perspectives.

On the number of occasions that you tried talking about it, how did your H respond?

On the number of occasions that you tried talking about it, how did your H respond?

I would also ask, and how did you frame it?

How would that help my H?

It would show him you are willing to throw your OM under the bus. It would show him you take full responsibility, and accountability.

Telling her doesn't have to be all about how it helps your husband. You tell because it helps YOU.

And because it helps her. Which, woman to woman, you kinda owe her a little respect at this point.

Regardless, I'm hoping more waywards chime in. They will tell you what you need to do to heal the damage you've caused..especially to yourself.

I understand that being a wayward is about being honest, even when it's hard. But I stand by my decision that it is not my place to tell his wife.

It's got nothing to do with protecting the OM, it's what I genuinely feel is right.

Devastated,

Can you accept that your best thinking got you where you are? And that maybe it's time to just listen to people who have experienced infidelity from both sides and have nothing to gain by steering you wrong. Almost everyone here at SI is here because we are or have been in the same boat. And the BS (Betrayed Spouses) who post here in the Wayward Forum are specifically here because we want to help you. We want to help you heal and repair the damage that you caused with your A.

I am a recovering addict. And one of my best friends in recovery told me something a very long time ago that has stuck with me. "Brain broke, first thought wrong." I have a broken brain. And for a long time I had to keep reminding myself that what SEEMED to be the right thought/action/choice was probably the very worst thing I could do. I had to learn to pause, think again, ask advice from people who'd been in recovery longer than me, and trust their opinions. As time has gone by (over 12 years now) I've begun to re-wire my brain so that sometimes my first thought is the right one.

I think that recovery after infidelity is very similar for a Wayward.

It's got nothing to do with protecting the OM, it's what I genuinely feel is right.

What you feel right is totally wrong and a wayward thinking. You both interfared with each other's marraige for wrong reasons. At least you can do this for a right one. Otherwise you are still protecting the OM. You need to get out of your wayward thinking and start acting on how to become a better partner/wife. And confessing her will show your husband that you are taking responsibility of your actions. And this is a great start.

You can start by confessing everything to OM's wife and write down a complete timeline of your affair for your husband. Whether he wants it or not is upto him but you should start working on getting yoursel out of the wayward mentality.

HellFire

His wife needs to be told. Since he hasn't told her, and it seems your husband hasn't, then yes, you tell her.

Agreed - the only caveat I would add is that I would make sure to tell my husband that I was going to tell the other betrayed spouse.

You made the decision to have an affair with her husband. You were ok with that. But you aren't ok with telling her the truth? You've already interfered for the wrong reasons..why not do it for the right reasons?

The position of integrity is to tell the other betrayed spouse. It's the right thing to do. She deserves to know. The only reason I can think to NOT tell her is that WW wants to protect the AP, which is entirely the wrong reason.

No longer being a wayward is more than just no longer cheating. It's doing the right thing. Being honest. Even when it's hard.

Exactly. Living with integrity can be the most difficult thing.

DevastatedIdiot

I understand that being a wayward is about being honest, even when it's hard. But I stand by my decision that it is not my place to tell his wife.

It's got nothing to do with protecting the OM, it's what I genuinely feel is right.

Was it your place to sleep with her husband? No, it wasn't. You've already inserted yourself into their marriage - keeping a fundamentally important secret from her is keeping yourself inserted in their marriage.

Yes I interfered in their marriage,but who is to say what their relationship is like, what has been discussed, agreed... just because you may feel it's the 'right thing' doesn't mean it is in my book. How do you know she would want to know? We're not all the same..

This line of thinking makes you an unsafe partner. It also sets you up to be a future AP.

I proactively want to heal the damage I've caused with my husband, but I want nothing more to do with my AP and certainly nothing to do with his wife.

I'm not sure this is actually the case - if this was the case then why are you protecting your AP? You're protecting him because you want to keep that door open a crack.

DevastatedIdiot

@HellFire

I'm not making excuses because I don't want to tell her. I'm explaining why I don't think it is for me to tell her.

How would that help my H?

Well it would help protect your husband from future affairs since at least TWO betrayed spouses would be looking for future affair evidence. I'm not sure why you think your husband would be okay with your AP not only not having any consequences but also still betraying his own wife. Seems like a tacit admission on your part that affairs are okay.

I'm having IC, I'm taking complete responsibility for what I've done,

Part of what you've done involves the other betrayed spouse. How do you not realize this?

Does your BH know about this site and what you wrote?

Sometimes WSs use this site to manipulate their BSs.

Some suggestions on this site are stereotyped and they are recommended in any case, regardless of whether they are useful or not. Telling OBS is one of them; we strongly recommend this to BSs, but I have no idea why this should be done by WSs.

Okay, cheating is a terrible thing, but do we report all cheaters we know to their BSs? Lying is bad, but do we tell all the lies we know to those who are deceived? Should we say, do we have such a mission?

Let's say, a couple is sitting at the opposite table in a cafe and we know that one of the spouses is cheating on the other, should we go and tell BS about this?

Or let's say WS is the one who overly seduced the AP to have an A, is it fair for WS to go and tell OBS about it later?

I think DI wants to see AP as someone whom she has nothing to do with anymore and doesn't want to enter into any engagement about their past A. This is different from protecting the AP.

If this thread was by BS, I would definitely insist that he should inform OBS. But this is the thread of the WS, and what she has to do is be completely honest with her BH and leave the choice to him.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 5:16 PM, April 8th (Thursday)]

Ideally, her BH should tell the OBS. Op has said he won't do it. We all know the OM won't tell his wife. So,yes, the OW should tell the OBS.

The important thing is that the OBS knows. Bottom line.

As to your reasoning, do all of us tell if we know someone has been cheated on..this isn't a stranger here. OP had an affair with the woman's husband. She is already involved in the OBS's life.

There had been no intimacy in my marriage for a long time.

I will say what my friend who had a wife in a similar boat felt.

In most marriages, the female controls the frequency of sex. (I said most)

If you were with holding the intimacy because say it wasn't initiated like you preferred or at times you liked, that will impact you chances at reconciliation. Because your BH will see it as you denied him to give affection to another. Kind of a double slap.

If it was him denying you affection, then he will slightly blame himself for pulling away and go a little into a shame spiral of his own.

So, you might want to think about what led to your lowered intimacy in the marriage. It wasn't a single conversation either. Realize typically it is a serious of events that causes both spouses to just give up.

Oh, and don't try to right away convince your husband you didn't have sex. He will see this as you trying to do damage control. Instead proceed as you have with the divorce, but mention you would like to talk about the affair to help him heal. It usually takes a BH around 5-7 months to stop spinning from all the emotions. Us men typically aren't used to being flooded with emotions. It drives us insane.

Lastly, do you 2 have kids? You said you were tired out, but without the addition of kids, I can't see how that could really change the alignment of someone's life so drastically. You might have missed your husband's attempts to initiate intimacy and rejected him without knowing it.

I really don't get this. And I don't believe that makes me 'unsafe' or likely to cheat again...

My BH doesn't want to know anything about the AP. That may change but right now he doesn't. He doesn't want to discuss the OM, his situation or anything. My BH does not want to tell the OBS.

The End.

Guvensiz is absolutely right. I don't want to have anything to do with my AP. I have ended the affair, I have cut off all contact with him. I do not intend on getting reintegrated into that world. My actions aren't to protect the OM, or to leave that door open. I have done something utterly devastating and I am trying to leave that behind.

If my BH asked me to re-enter that world for something then I would consider it.. but I fundamentally disagree that I, or my BH, must tell the OBS.

HellFire

The important thing is that the OBS knows. Bottom line.

As to your reasoning, do all of us tell if we know someone has been cheated on..this isn't a stranger here. OP had an affair with the woman's husband. She is already involved in the OBS's life.

Agreed. This isn't some random stranger - this is the AP's spouse.

Speaking for myself, two times in my life I have told or forced the telling of someone cheating. The first time I was right out of High School. My friend had been seeing this woman for years. He brought over *her friend* to my place. I asked him what was up and he said that he'd broken up with his long time girlfriend. Okay...The next night we were out at another friends house and he was with his long time girlfriend. I told him that he had to tell her about this friend he brought over to my place or I would. He left with his long time girlfriend and told her. He was pissed at me but I wouldn't tolerate that - this was all on him.

The second time was my ex sister in law. She was cheating and brought her new 'friend' over. She didn't do anything explicit with him but it was clear they were more than 'just friends'. So I talked to her boyfriend the next day and gave him the heads up as to what I saw.

My ex SIL got pissed at me and wouldn't speak to me for months (year?) and is now with that 'friend'. Supposedly she's cheating on him as well with a coworker. I've heard that rumor through the grapevine - I have no tangible evidence or even a name. If I had anything solid, I sure as shit would expose her. I'm not even in contact with her any more and I have no sympathy for her current partner (since he was the AP).

I will not lie to cover up the abuse of another. I make this shit known with my friends/family.

DevastatedIdiot

I really don't get this. And I don't believe that makes me 'unsafe' or likely to cheat again...

You've betrayed your vows already, you are by definition unsafe. I think your protection of the AP is you attempting to leave the door open for the future. Your partner probably would too. Further, not telling his BS shows that you aren't really interested in building integrity or doing the right thing. You are trying to minimize the damage.

My BH doesn't want to know anything about the AP. That may change but right now he doesn't. He doesn't want to discuss the OM, his situation or anything.

Then you should send an anonymous letter to the OBS. You participated in her abuse, you share weight there.

My BH does not want to tell the OBS.

The End.

I'm curious as to why he wouldn't want to end her abuse.

Guvensiz is absolutely right. I don't want to have anything to do with my AP. I have ended the affair, I have cut off all contact with him. I do not intend on getting reintegrated into that world. My actions aren't to protect the OM, or to leave that door open. I have done something utterly devastating and I am trying to leave that behind.

You can't leave it behind if it's still an unopened surprise for the OBS. You have to take responsibility for the people you hurt. You aren't.

If my BH asked me to re-enter that world for something then I would consider it.. but I fundamentally disagree that I, or my BH, must tell the OBS.

That comes across as somewhat hollow since you fundamentally agreed to abuse your spouse by having an affair. Your spouse is hurting and probably not thinking clearly. There's still an abused person out there and she needs to know she's been fundamentally damaged and that her partner is not safe.

And you share the responsibility for that.

This may be harsh, so I will apologize in advance.....

An old SIer often said that his wife described being a BS as being raped. That the AP held her down while the WH raped her. That has ALWAYS resonated with me. I'm in year 4 and I still feel like that. I still feel that EVERY time I had sex with my WH prior to dday was sex without informed consent. This perspective can get touchy, which I understand. Not everyone shares that sentiment, but I and the wife of this old SIer are 100% on the same page (and IIRC, I believe his As were EAs more than PAs - not that it matters, really).

I don't say this to make you feel worse than I suspect you already do. I say this to try and help you see just how damaging living in the dark is. That once the bubble of an A has popped, continuing to withhold such VITAL info from another BS is wayward brain, stinkin thinking, fill it in however you like, but it continues your role as an accomplice to the harm of another human being.

So, you tell the OBS. You do it for all the reasons already stated. It's the right thing and it helps you. If she already knows her WH is cheating, then you've not changed the status quo. If she does not know, then you have helped her learn of her actual reality.

Moreover, telling her shows YOU have taken responsibility for YOUR actions vis-a-vis another M.

I'll echo others that ideally, it would be your BH that tells the OBS. But if he is not willing to do so, then it's up to you. Who told me or why is far less important than that I found out what my WH had been up to and the level of deceit to which he is capable. FWIW, it really bothers me that my WH seems to have zero sense of remorse or empathy for the harm he caused the OBS in my situation.

Telling yourself that it's not your place to tell the OBS is far more likely simply protecting yourself from guilt, shame, discomfort, etc., as well as the same for your AP. Of COURSE no one "wants" to make such a call. No one WANTS to call someone with bad news, esp if the the caller was a participant.

If your child stole from another, what would you have them do? Would you have them ignore it? I would have my kid go and confess to the owner, return what was stolen, and apologize. Unfortunately, there is so much stolen by an A that cannot be "returned", the ONE thing you have absolute power to return to this OBS is her reality - and IMHO, you absolutely owe her that.

Accountability (and integrity) is tough stuff, and it's also absolutely necessary.

ETA:

You can't leave it behind if it's still an unopened surprise for the OBS. You have to take responsibility for the people you hurt.

Amen, and think of this: Say you and your BH are able to do the work and reconcile w/o telling the OBS. Just try for a moment to imagine what can happen if 1, 3, 5, 10, 20 years down the road the OBS finds out and contacts your BH? Can you imagine how much that can reset the clocks to zero? Why would anyone want that kind of "surprise" hanging out there?

[This message edited by gmc94 at 5:59 PM, April 8th, 2021 (Thursday)]

gmc94

If your child stole from another, what would you have them do? Would you have them ignore it? I would have my kid go and confess to the owner, return what was stolen, and apologize. Unfortunately, there is so much stolen by an A that cannot be "returned", the ONE thing you have absolute power to return to this OBS is her reality - and IMHO, you absolutely owe her that.

This kind of struck me. I try to live in a way where my actions do not hurt the people I care about. So for me what the OP should do is pretty clear cut. That said, I remember a few years ago my daughter did something to a neighbor's daughter. I can't remember what it was but it was enough that I felt compelled that she should apologize to the neighbor's daughter. She was afraid (she must have been 10ish at the time) and didn't want to. I told her that I would go with her. I didn't want to do it. I would have much rather taken the easy route and ignored the whole thing.

I couldn't though. This wasn't a wrong doing I had done but I was still responsible for my daughter - for modeling for her the proper actions, for telling her what was right and what is wrong. For making her do the hard, but correct action. So I went with her. Told her (roughly) what to say and she said it. I was proud of my daughter for doing it and she felt better afterward.

While it's not comparable to the hurt/pain that the OP is going to inflict on the OBS I can sympathize a little better with the reticence than I did previously after reflecting on that incident.

There is no easy road here for you, OP. There is only the road to take to attempt to restore your integrity. It's not a halfway thing. It's an all or nothing thing. It's going to be difficult. Accept that now and do the right thing.

Part of living with integrity is doing the right thing when we harm someone. Make no mistake, you have participated in harming the OBS. In my mind, she is owed an honest look at her marriage. Your AP isn't going to tell her, it is incumbent on you to do so.

It sucks. It's a shit sandwich, but you helped make it and either it's going to sit there and fester on your plate for the rest of your life (in your character) - polluting you - or you can swallow it and process it and become better.

The abuse has already happened. You've helped abuse another person. You can't pretend it didn't happen.

Do you really want to get away with abusing someone? Is that the type of person you want to be? Is that the type of person you want your husband to see you as? Or do you want to be the type of person who does the right thing, even though it's difficult.

Which type of person do you think your husband can start to restore trust with?

Why are we telling BSs to inform OBSs?

Because we don't have any information about the will of the WS in that case. We say that WSs cannot be trusted and this is necessary for the A to end and WSs to wake up to reality. For this, this awakening must also occur on the AP side.

But here WS expressed her will to end the A completely and R with her BH. This puts her in a position of stranger regarding the marriage of AP and OBS. Actually, being a judge of a crime you are a partner of and denouncing an accomplice is more evil. The person entitled to this is the victim (BS).

So what is the exception to this situation? Everything changes if WS is not sincere in what she write knowing that her BH will read it and is using it to manipulate him. That's why I asked it at the beginning of my post, and to warn him of course.

I'm trying to look at the event objectively. I am personally not a fan of R and cannot tolerate infidelity. But BH is not me and he is the one to make the decision. What he needs is to know the whole truth and to see that WS is remorseful.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 7:10 PM, April 8th (Thursday)]