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Last question asked by heartbrokeninaz on part 14:

Why didnt the WS just let us go? Just one simple question. Why make the BS find out and keep telling them they are crazy? Seems so much easier to just say you want out.

Cowardice. Conflict avoidance. Wanting the next relationship lined up already. Wanting a fallback plan.

I want to ask WS for those of you that may have relapsed and caused another DDay after the first discovery, how far was it after the initial discovery day did you relapse and what caused the relapse? Do you have to work on not wanting to go back to the AP or once you discover it was limerance and not real did the attraction dissipate?

Is it that none of the WS here relapsed after discovery? This question is haunting me.

For those cheating spouses with children: Did you ever think about your children as you were driving to or else on your way to meeting up with your affair partner? Did you ever think about how their lives would change when they found out about how you were betraying their father/mother as you were on your way to your rendezvous?

These questions might have already been asked and answered. If so, could someone point me in that direction?

Thanking you in advance.

Question for WSs:

My WS confessed to a ONS on a work trip (I didn't suspect anything). He told me he doesn't want to be with the OW. That it was a mistake and he regretted it immediately. His behavior since D-Day has been very confusing. The first few days I was in a complete state of shock and he kept trying to be around and be close. Once I said I would work on things, he feels... distant. He won't say "I love you" (he will say it back), he rarely wants to cuddle or kiss, he doesn't text me during the day, and sometimes it feels like he can barely make eye contact.

I've asked him about it and he tells me that he is so completely ashamed, that he doesn't feel like things should be normal, that he is severely depressed (He said he felt depressed just prior to ONS). It's absolutely killing me because I need some validation and affirmation from him and it almost feels like he's avoiding me. I'm worried he did it as a way to just blow up the relationship and leave (he says it wasn't). He doesn't blame me or the relationship, but he isn't acting like he did literally just before this happened.

Am I expecting too much? Is this actions of a WS who wants out or who is lost/confused?

Wow... crickets lately on this one.

HowCThatHappen, I wish I could answer your question about relapse, but that hasn't been my experience. I was using AP as a way to survive the M until kids graduated. The AP was more convenience and a guy who would tell me what I wanted to hear (rosy version of me) while I eked out a life during my H's growing EA with a close friend. After Dday, I dropped him quickly and really haven't looked back (much).

As for others here who could provide an answer... I'm not sure many WS's who reneg and go back to their AP's hang around here much.

There's a lot of limerence hangover in many WS's experience and I had that too. I didn't have to work too hard to get over the attraction to AP, but I know others have struggled greatly. My A was short in duration, and I didn't know him more than casually for hallway conversations for more than a few months before he started pursuing me hard (and I allowed the pursuit). So, not much in the way of limerence to get over? Even so, I still had to struggle against the desire for the next "hit" of feel-good that AP was giving me.

Lrpprl, Most of us don't. We are laser focused on the A and have very limited consideration for everyone else in our lives. This was certainly the case in my experience. My H was having a hard time with the kids, was volatile and yelling a lot. Kids complained and even asked me to divorce their dad on the Father's Day. At that point, it was before I took my EA to a PA. I thought it would be beneficial for me to D their dad to protect the kids. I actually deluded myself into thinking that it would be better for the kids to D their dad so I could get them out of the toxic stew our M was at that point. Who knows, maybe it would have been better then as H refused MC for YEARS prior to this and showed no interest in it immediately before my A either.

Mine was an exit A, so it's got some differences from those that are primarily from dissatisfaction and boredom in the M. I was legit in a financial/emotional abuse situation and it was VERY toxic, especially for the kids. Of course, straight up D would have been a MUCH better way to go then. My mindset back then was, "H clearly doesn't want me and I'm so flawed, who is going to want me after a D? Am I just doomed to being not good enough for anyone and thus loneliness the rest of my life?" I looked for an A as a confirmation of my worth and as a way to work myself up to having the courage to D my H. H had worn me down so much with his comparisons over the years, his struggles with my mental health problems (exacerbated by his treatment of me and kids), that I truly believed I had no worth and would be stuck with out partnership the rest of my life.

Hurtbs, As a person who has struggled with depression all my life and as someone who was deeply depressed before my A, I can say with confidence that a depressed person can perform "happy all is well" for many years before the breakdown occurs. I think your WH is lost. He's finally had to confront himself with no way to bullshit himself into thinking he's a good person. His ONS shoved in his face that he is troubled and needs help. Making peace with ongoing, likely lifelong, mental illness is difficult. I struggled even more acutely with sense of shame, low/no self worth and suicidality (had a gun stashed in the trunk and almost killed myself at my dad's grave- only thoughts of my children stopped me).

His struggles may not be as extreme, but they are real. He sounds like he's lost in his own head and unable to interact with the outside world. Is he isolating himself from others? If so, then you can rule out it being something particular to yourself. Is he completely drained after forced social contact with others? Like, he can fake happy for an hour or two and then is completely wrecked after? It's likely deep depression.

Is your WH in IC? Is he getting medicated? My H didn't give up on me or the M, which opened my eyes to how much he truly did love me. That combination is the only thing that really saved my life.

MIgander: Thank you for responding.

You said yours was an exit affair and your children had even asked you to divorce their father. I guess what I had in mind when I asked the question was of a betraying spouse's thinking in an otherwise normal family (from the outside looking in)... when the children and the betrayed spouse had no clue anything out of the ordinary was going on in the family and marriage. Did the cheating spouse ever think about the nuclear explosion about to happen and destroy the family unit as it now was?

I have read several of your posts and you are a very honest poster. I admire that. Sometimes when I read about your relationship with your husband I wonder why you two are still married. Many of my friends, siblings, and relatives have divorced for a lot less toxicity than what you said happens in your marriage, and did not even include the infidelity which happened in your marriage. Of course, I can't remember reading his side of the story and here on Surviving Infidelity we only get the side of the poster. Is religion one of the reasons you two stay married? Just asking and you need not answer if it is uncomfortable.

Again, thanks for your answer.

@MIGander - thank you so much for your response. A few years ago, WH had a serious breakdown and went into IC. He's been in IC weekly for about 4 years. He is not medicated. We've talked some more about it and he told me that he hadn't been discussing his newer spiral (a few months prior to the ONS) with his IC but has been discussing it now. It's only been about 2 weeks from D-Day. He has also agreed to go to couple's counseling. What seems to be most jarring to him is that he was wholly capable of this. He told me that he wouldn't have imagined doing it before hand, but during - he just didn't care. Then, when it was over, he felt like garbage.

And yes, to answer your question, he truly struggles with social interaction and it does absolutely wreck him. Thank you for that insight. I truly appreciate your response.

If you have any other thoughts, please share.

Is it that none of the WS here relapsed after discovery? This question is haunting me.

In my case, no, I didn't relapse. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I haven't had the specific experiences that BS have asked about in the last several questions.

I'm glad MIgander was here to help!

Hi lrpprl, you're welcome! I saw a few hanging out here and didn't want to leave you guys hanging.

Is religion one of the reasons you two stay married?

Yes. That and a sick pride om my side that I want to prove to myself that I've done everything I can possibly do to fix the M before I walk away. So as not to feel myself a coward and to actually take accountability for my shit and do my best to fix it. Because I want to be a fixer, not someone who just gives up. As for H, his pick me dance actually showed me he was capable of love and could be dragged out of his selfishness and self centeredness he had crawled into. Over time and work, I've seen some progress on his end in owning his own fears and filters that come into the M from his childhood (mostly from things he saw omitted between his parents, not things like my dad's A that was blatantly present in mine). I've been able to slowly drop my self blame for his reactions as he opens himself up to own each of his own.

It's painfully slow, and some days I feel I'm smoking a hopium pipe, but there's enough to show me H has potential. That's for another thread though.

Hurtbs, thinking more about your situation:

He is not medicated. We've talked some more about it and he told me that he hadn't been discussing his newer spiral (a few months prior to the ONS) with his IC but has been discussing it now.

Between the 2 things- not being medicated and not opening up to his IC, that's a deadly combination. I'm not one of those people who naively believe that meds cure everything. BUT... they can give us the strength to fight off what is bringing us down. I've heard it said by GP's that anti-biotics don't fully kill the infection, but they give our immune system enough of a reprieve (by decimating the bacteria population) to be able to clean up the rest. Same with anti-depressants.

My sister told me, when I was struggling accepting that I would be on "crazy people pills" the rest of my life: "MIg, diabetic people take insulin because their bodies need it. Depressed people take Zoloft because their bodies need it. There's no shame in a diabetic taking meds. Neither is there shame in a depressed person taking theirs." It was probably one of the most helpful and healing things she's said to me in our life.

Meds + IC (and being honest w/ IC!!!) are really the MINIMUM for surviving, let alone healing, life long depression. It's hard for men especially to go to the doctor and get help in this area- we still have this sick idea as a society that men aren't "real men" unless they knuckle down and just ignore their emotional churn (sorry guys, going with the majority of my lived experience here, not trying to paint y'all with the same brush).

MIgander: Thank you for your response. It makes a lot of sense.

I was betrayed by my then fiance 65 years ago when I was stationed overseas. We grew up together on farms next to each other, so her betrayal felt to me like someone reached inside me and ripped out all my internal organs. I haven't seen her since I was sent overseas. I am not sure how I would react if my betrayer was a spouse. Adultery for me has always been a deal breaker. But I haven't ever faced that situation with a spouse. My wife and I have been married 61 years. She is the sweetest person on earth. If I were to ever face this situation with her, I doubt I would want to continue carrying on since I am now up in my 80s and our children are in their 50s... however, I just don't know what I would do at this point in my life.

HI and thank you to those who are able to answer my question.

My wh was in on over 3 yr LTA. he says he felt trapped and couldn't bring himself to tell me or leave the ap.

Please could you help me with this I dont understand. She was not holding a gun to his head. Did you feel this way? is this just an excuse like I feel it is. I feel like he was just cake eating. But thats the feeling that comes to mind as to why he couldn't tell me or stop it.

I appreciate your insight.

Thanks you.

Hi Squish

Suffice to say you are correct, you H is just making excuses.

I was in a LTA. I suppose technically I could say that I was "trapped" by my desire for my AP. But we both know that’s a load of crap. Like your H, each meeting with the AP was a conscious choice to do something. I wasn’t tied up in my AP’s basement, forced to have sex with her. While I eventually stopped the A, I didn’t for a very long time.

Like every WS before and after your H, we possessed free will and could have stopped the A at any time. We simply didn’t want to.

Thanks for answering everyone. My husband relapsed after I found out and went no contact but the reality of the devastation and my tears and disappointment let him
Back to get a fix. When I found out and left he finally went no contact and hasn’t made contact in almost 3 years.

My wh was in on over 3 yr LTA. he says he felt trapped and couldn't bring himself to tell me or leave the ap.

I didn't feel trapped, but I did feel guilty, like there was no correct course of action. I was the one who initiated my affair, and I never imagined that the OM would catch serious feelings for me. When he did (or thought he did), I felt responsible for him. I thought my BH "won" and that OM deserved my support. I had promised OM when I broke it off that we would always be friends, and then the first thing BH demanded was total and permanent NC. He was right, of course, but I had my head so far up my own ass that this seemed like an unfair condition. I didn't understand that I had already killed both my relationship with BH and my friendship with OM the day I first crossed a boundary. If I really valued those connections, I had every opportunity to preserve them by acting with integrity. Instead, I acted in pure selfishness and then desperately wanted to believe I could fix everything.

I can't look inside your WH's head, but I imagine he had some combination of fear that the AP would blow up his life when he broke it off and/or guilt that he was going to hurt her by ending it. We WS want to see ourselves as good people who never meant to behave badly. We have to step back before we can see how twisted our logic has become, and that far from saving everyone, we're continuing to fuck things up from every possible angle.

I have my own thoughts on what I'm about to ask. I finally figured out that I can do more than speculate on this topic. I can ask some actual WSes. I asked my W this AM, and now I'm asking others..

How did the illicitness of your A affect your sex with your ap? (Help, hurt, no effect?)

If you had to sneak around to meet your ap how did the need to hide affect your sex? (Help, hurt, no effect?)

Did you see the initial sex as the first in a developing relationship in which the sex would get better as you got to know each other better? (I experienced our early sex as the 1st in what would be a lot of sex, so I was confident sex would get better and better - but we weren't cheating each other, though we certainly were violating our upbringing. It's funny - the early sex was exhilarating, which was nice, but it took experience with each other for it to be satisfying.*)

My W's ansswers were: no effect, no effect, and IIRC, no.

(signed) sisoon, who often takes a long time to formulate the questions he wants to ask....

* OTOH, if it's satisfying, why do we want more?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:45 PM, Saturday, September 24th]

Sisoon,

I’d say it ranged from "no effect" to "harmful effect."

He was my ex so I’d had sex with him before. I knew prior to the A that we had good sex together, were compatible, and that I enjoyed it.

However, I hated the illicitness of the A. I wanted our legit relationship back, is what I wanted—not having to sneak to have sex, to lie, to hide things. Unfortunately I was too much of a coward to blow up my marriage to do things the right way, even though he wanted me to.

It didn’t have a negative effect on the physical sex itself, but it definitely negatively impacted me emotionally, as I wished it weren’t an affair.

Was there anything your BS would ask that you didn't remember but we're able to remember after some digging? Is this a thing?

How did the illicitness of your A affect your sex with your ap? (Help, hurt, no effect?)

No effect. I'm a compartmentalizer, so I did my best to mentally separate the world of the affair from my real life. There's no rush from getting away with it if you refuse to even admit to yourself that you're doing anything wrong.

If you had to sneak around to meet your ap how did the need to hide affect your sex? (Help, hurt, no effect?)

N/A. I was long distance from BH during the A and didn't have to sneak to hide it. All my lies during the A were lies of omission.

Did you see the initial sex as the first in a developing relationship in which the sex would get better as you got to know each other better?

I didn't see it as "initial sex." For a long time, I had myself convinced that I wouldn't let things get that far. Then I decided I would do it for only one night. The A had been ongoing for a few months at that point, with a gradual breaking of boundaries, and we had done "everything but." I was already aware that we were compatible.