SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Things have been ok despite it being affair season. I seem to get upset at small incidents that then turn into huge emotional conflicts. The other day he quoted a well known line from a show he told me he watched with the AP (he would drive to her house early in the morning and stay how ever long before going to work and I was oblivious because his work entailed early hours) Upon discovery I tried to have the "vomit session" where I made a list of all the questions and I asked him what they watched. There are 3 shows that are in my "box of bad" (along with AP name as it’s a name on a very popular show that I can’t escape) so when he did the "quote" I screamed at him. He said "I’m sorry, I forgot" YOU FORGOT???? He said it was just an impulsive thing based on a conversation I was having with my son about me looking like someone’s younger sister on a show. Anyway I lost it. He apologized immediately but I was sickened.

When he got home be wanted to talk because I was still upset. Then he says "I never told you we watched that show" WHAT?? he said "there is only one show I watched the others were just like streaming by on the TV" What the hell does he mean?? I feel like he was under fire when I asked all those questions years ago and just said whatever shows he remembered seeing on her TV?

Having to be reminded he sat there and watched a TV show with AP made me sick all over again and I had a breakdown. He comforted me but it wasn’t enough.

This weekend we had a really nice Sat evening then Sunday was horrid. Just small things like his tone of voice. He came up and tried to make me feel better but I said "I’m still fragile, I’m always vulnerable with you why can’t I get that in return?" And he literally fell asleep for hours and didn’t answer me.

My point is yesterday I really wanted to d*e like I kept saying this pain is too much I hate it. Now I wake up Monday morning and noting is resolved and we wasted a whole day and I feel awful

Yes, I understand this. I tried so hard to teach my WS to avoid these things, and he would just fall into shit like that like it was nothing.

It was disappointing, and still is disappointing to me even now 11 years out and "reconciled".

The way I think of it is that he was an idiot to even be there in the first place, lacking the empathy from a Humanity 101 level class, and they need to step their shit into some grad school PhD level empathy to really help us believe they aren’t still sucky people.

But I’m going to step away from that for a minute.

People suck. They all suck in many varied ways. They are unable to have compassion and they will always be egocentric and hustle you to get theirs.

So watch out for your own interests and give up on something that will never exist. He will never be empathetic. It’s impossible really. He cheated because he is incapable of empathy. People who are able to feel empathy in a meaningful fashion typically don’t cheat. Think of it like an autistic person who is nonverbal and frightened by someone who is smiling. They just don’t understand.

I lowered my expectations to very very low. Like very very very low…..
And I separated mentally and found my own path to joy in my life. We make our own happiness, and he can join me in it or not. But it will be on my terms, and he can take it or leave it.

Honestly, I think romantic love is a load of bullshit. People aren’t careful with each other. It doesn’t exist.

He will never really understand. I know that’s what you want to feel better, for him to understand.

But he is unable to. His brain can’t fathom empathy.

It’s ok to leave if that’s not your cup of tea. But you can’t really teach him that. And it’s not your job to teach him what he should know.

Find your peace. Make a life that’s better and move toward that in everything you do. Maybe he will be around, maybe not.

You can do like the Dread Pirate Roberts to Wesley on the Princess Bride. "Good job, sleep well, I’ll most likely kill you in the morning."

And sometimes as they get older and you get older and time passes, you expect less and care less and find your peace.

I’m sorry you’re hurting so much. I still feel it like a full ache. And he will never understand. But I know I’m kind of dead inside and that’s actually peaceful. Because I’ll be ok. No more heated passion, no more frantic tears. Just me. And I’m cool with that.

It’s weird because he seems to have empathy. He sees animals suffering and gets emotional. He has definitely shown some emotions when I’m upset. It’s just not at my level. I think he’s broken. We are both neurodivergent as well so I think sometimes the disconnect is the Autism (I have high masking type and he has a different type) so we get along really well until we don’t. I also have ADHD and BPD so I really wonder how much this affects both of us.

there is only one show I watched the others were just like streaming by on the TV"

Was this supposed to make you feel better? That these other shows, that they weren't watching,were on in the background, while they were doing..whatever?

I’m still fragile, I’m always vulnerable with you why can’t I get that in return?" And he literally fell asleep for hours and didn’t answer me.

I think you really need to pay attention. He did answer you. His answer was to ignore you,your pain,and the situation. That's an answer. Someone who loves you,won't be able to fall asleep,for hours,while you are hurting because of their actions.

Has he ever really had consequences? You stayed. He didn't lose anything. Your pain isn't a consequence. It's an inconvenience. And,with the phone calls, he's never had to really prove he can be trusted.

It doesn't sound like he's as remorseful as you've believed him to be.

180. Detach. Stop being vulnerable with a man who goes to sleep while you're hurting.

I'm right there with you. Any reference to laughs they shared over a meme or cocktails they made him that he doesn't normally drink triggers me. It's just the injustice of it. He lived it and I have to imagine it.

And the worst is I know he knows. He looks at me when there's a trigger and hopes I didn't notice or don't react.

I felt all of that pain in your post, sorry the weekend was so bad.

I had a bunch of those along the way.

I found that my wife ever being on my same page — for vulnerability — was and is rare.

She will show me some empathy on a day where I’m all good and then will completely miss the boat during a tough day, and will listen to any problems I vent, but it will happen again a few days or weeks later.

I am not sure very many WS remember all of our triggers well. I used to get angry about that every time, but a part of it is, my wife doesn’t connect a TV show, or a song or memory like I do. And that’s actually a good thing. When I have to remind her about AP playing her a particular song, and I have to remind her, it’s because she doesn’t look back on the A the same way. She experienced it in real time, the A had an unhappy ending, she processed those moments and moved on.

We’re way behind our spouses on those memories as we rebuild reality the way it happened. We need to process those triggers on our own pace. Part of the comfort for me always hating the A, embracing that feeling. Hating the A has been a strangely healthy way of looking back, and then focusing on what progress has been made since then.

I also don’t think my wife’s empathy has ever been on the same level as mine either, I guess I’ve allowed her to be on that different level, as long as her effort is there to the best of her emotional ability. She may miss the mark, misread the moment with me, but she always gets back up and keeps trying.

I imagine even the most aware and kindly WS on the planet wouldn’t be able to heal us. As long as they are helping to rebuild the relationship (for me) then I am on that path through the pain that I need to be on.

That gets back to R and you finding the relationship to be moving to where YOU need it to be. If your husband isn’t able to help you heal the M, then you may a different path out of this cycle.

The pain spiral, whether we R or D, is something we have to break on our own, with the things we’re doing to heal.

I just want to follow up. I wrote this while very emotional.

H is very aware of my triggers. He knew immediately and apologized for quoting the show. He’s impulsive with his Autism and ADHD and he’s always trying to make people laugh, that’s his thing…it’s what makes him feel good I guess.

He don’t think he lacks empathy per se. If he sees any kind of "look" on my face he immediately asks what’s wrong and tries very hard to make sure I tell him if he’s done something to upset me or something is on my mind.

He’s a man who was never emotionally validated as a child and was physically abused (and I would say emotionally abused as well). I just believe he really doesn’t have the tools to make himself "vulnerable". He wants to be the rock that fixes the horrendous things he did so he’s more of a problem solver.

I was not kind yesterday. I said some very hurtful things out of the blue. He said he was confused about the show and I looked at him and said "oh you weren’t watching it it was in the background will you f****d her huh? Or while she s****d your d**k???" He just looked at me and said "I deserved that." He got it. He wasn’t upset, in fact he never is when I say stuff like that he just takes it. I don’t think it’s healthy for me to say things like that but he did ask me later if it made me feel better and I said no.

Hellfire this is for you especially

Are you a therapist? You seem to dole out advice just based on the posts I make but you don’t take in to account the nuance of my relationship and healing process. How could you? You don’t know me. You only see my words. I got real OCD paranoia last night starting to think that somehow you are someone I know IRL somehow and it made me very uncomfortable. I don’t think you are qualified to therapize me in the way you have been.

Sometimes I don’t write every single thing that’s happened. I have detached before, it only took two days and he came home and said "you are detached" he noticed right away.

I come here for support. I don’t come here to be judged or told what to do unless I ask. I literally have no one to talk to IRL about this and this has always been my safe space and you’ve made it feel unsafe for me. I’m assuming your intentions are good but it’s not productive to just tell me he has no empathy or he isn’t remorseful. I haven’t shared everything.

This is a very difficult position to be in, to be the BS. It’s hard to navigate everything and every relationship is different. I know I need to change some things and I’m working on it, reconciliation is a process isn’t it?

No, not a therapist.

I know I upset you when I bring up the all day calls,because it reminds others of the calls,and the posts tend to focus on that,and you won't give those calls up. I bring them up,because they are keeping you stuck.

I did not realize I was upsetting you by pointing out what I see,based on your posts.

I am actually a BS too. Just to clarify that. My first dday was over a decade ago. I've been through the reconciliation process. I am painfully aware of how difficult it is. I have lived it. I recently had another dday,because I discovered he was cheating again. Imagine THAT kind of pain. To have done all that work. To have gone through that Hell. With a stalker OW,no less, who,to this day, won't leave me alone. And he did it to me again. Knowing my devastation. He did it again. On top of a new dday, I've developed some major health issues, that I only found out a few days ago isn't ovarian cancer. Jury is still out on if it's colon cancer. I won't know that for another month. So yeah. I'm dealing with a new dday and a possible life ending crisis.

I can only respond to what is written. I don't sugarcoat. Some members have thanked me for that. Some prefer a softer hand. Since my posts aren't for you,I will stay off your threads.

But, a reminder. I'm a Betrayed spouse. Again. I hurt too. I am in pain too. I am scared too. I am not some unfeeling monster.

brokendollparts,

If you find that some of the advice you're receiving is harsh or makes you want to lash out at the poster it's actually worth stepping back and giving it a thought. If Hellfire's comments actually caused to you lose sleep and make you think that she might know you in real life, it's probably because the things that she said hit very close to home and made you contemplate painful truths that you're not yet willing to admit to yourself as of yet.

Also, the way you defended your husband reminded me a lot of how I would react when I was talking about my ex. I would be sitting with my close friends and family, telling them about his latest act of douche-baggery, and the minute that one of them said something a long the lines of "Wow he sucks, why are you are putting up with that shit?!" I would immediately bark at them about how they shouldn't judge him, he had a horrible family growing up, he isn't always this bad, etc, etc. Basically I was getting pissed at them for noticing things that he was doing that was causing tremendous damage and pain.

But you know who didn't criticize my ex and were happy to pat my hand and let me vent without uttering a word of uncomfortable advice? His family members' and friends' wives, who pretty much dumped me the minute that I filed for divorce. They didn't care enough about me to tell me that what he was doing was wrong, even if it made me angry.

No one is saying that your husband is a villain or an unfeeling monster; you probably wouldn't have married him if he was. While I'm sure the emotional and physical abuse he suffered as a child factors into his coping mechanisms and poor decision-making, that's not an excuse for cheating on you or for not being emotionally available to you when you need him. Many of us betrayed spouses were abused as children, but that didn't lead us to cheat on our spouses or not step up when needed for our families. In fact, being a victim of abuse means that you're more likely to tolerate it in the context of romantic relationship rather than perpetrate it in others.

Not to belabor the point about the phone calls, but clearly, this approach to fixing your marriage is not working. As I said in another thread, you're shooting up a broken leg with heroin instead of putting in a cast. You're choosing temporary, fleeting relief instead of long-term healing. If you can't think of a solution other than the phone calls, that's fine... because it's his job to figure out how to win back your trust. Some of his ideas might work and some might not, but one thing is certain: continuing to do the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result is a recipe for failure.

For me, part of my healing meant accepting that the things that may trigger me, some minor details of the affair that he offered back then which imprinted on my brain, are not stuck in his brain the way they are on mine. No matter how compassionate and how clued up a WS is, it is just the reality of it.

I wouldn’t expect my WH these days to pay attention to the same level of details he did in the early days. In effect I do not expect my WH to walk on eggshells (anymore).

It’s been 6 years for me. If WH still needed to watch his every word to ensure I’m not back to that level of pain again I would personally consider we have turned our relationship into a toxic one and it would be time to part ways for my benefit as well as his.

Of course I also have the odd moment here and there when my WH may say something which may slightly trigger me. It doesn’t throw me straight back there as I have worked on my triggers as part of my healing. There’s only so many times you can discuss the same detail and live in the past every second of the day. I don’t avoid pain, we don’t rug sweep. If I need to mention something I will. But we do not walk on eggshells anymore carefully measuring our every word. That is something normal early on but it can turn into a very toxic environment if still present later in the reconciliation process.

There is no timeline to healing but there is in my view a personal tolerance to being stuck in a certain situation. For me, having lost precious people in my life, having had a few cancer scares myself lately, my life is way too precious to spend it stuck in pain. Consider if this is the way your precious life should be spend.

ETA: I also think there is such thing as getting used to the cycle of pain for both the BS and the WS. I believe seeing someone constantly in pain without an end in sight, without any hope for healing, leads to acceptance. Acceptance also leads to emotional unavailability.

I am not defending your WH’s lack of empathy or emotional availability. I am just highlighting that it’s human nature to dismiss a trigger as “same shit different day” if a situation repeats itself for a very long period of time.

I am a strong believer of dealing with the pain and not rug sweeping. I also believe though that healing requires active actions, it rarely happens organically when we discuss this level of trauma.

I also wonder if you’ve set yourself a goal of what successful reconciliation looks like for you and how long do you wish to allow to see if it does work. My line in the sand (the point at which I told myself I would leave if I’m still in pain or if we are still focused on his affair 24/7) is next year, 6 years from dday 2. I think for me, 6 years is very generous to offer someone the chance to redeem themselves.

If you don’t have such a date I strongly advise you to set one and define what success looks like. It puts things in perspective.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 5:05 PM, Tuesday, December 19th]

Hellfire. You say you won’t share much because OW is here. So when you "advise" it doesn’t seem to be coming from a place of relating. I understand you’re a BS but also not you being vulnerable makes me feel strange. That just how I feel.

I actually showed this thread to my H as I’ve showed his many others. He agreed with your assessment actually, he said "yeah, from what you wrote her comment isn’t wrong I’d probably think the same thing looking at it from an outside person"

We had a long talk this morning. I keep absolutely nothing from him about how I feel. No, he isn’t good as reciprocating sometimes. He’s getting better. I mean I can’t just sit here and say he’s the most horrid person when I’m actively working for R. It’s been a long, difficult road so far. So much more than I ever imagined. Our marriage was in the gutter for many year before his A and he isn’t the only one to blame for the state of it. He is 1000% to blame for being weak, impulsive, selfish and in my mind abusive for having an A with a COW who actively pursued him knowing he was married. He fell for the manipulation. He has never once not accepted blame and tried to make amends the best he can.

I have multiple mental health illnesses. It doesn’t take much to set me off. I also have serious health issues that are exacerbated by all this and yes sometimes I wonder what the fuck I’m doing here with this person who wrecked me completely. It’s hard as FUCK.

I’m an extremely emotional person in general. I admit I feel like I’m being manipulative many times when I’m upset because I want a reaction. I want him to suffer. Trust me, I’m not oblivious to my own actions.

I am not talking about the phone calls anymore because this is a way we are dealing with it right now. Period. As I’ve said it was his idea. He has had consequences. He’s lost all his autonomy pretty much. He won’t even use the bathroom with the door closed anymore. He changed wallets and he sent me a pic of the contents of his old wallet which is something I don’t even know I would have thought about but he had the foresight to say hey I better send her the pic of the old one. Idk maybe it’s just not much but he does these type of things consistently and without being asked.

Is this a "perfect" R. HELL NO. I still accuse him of nefarious deeds if something just feels a tiny bit "off" to me I will lose it. I haven’t found anything in almost 6 years but I constantly look for it. I have PTSD. I already had CPTSD and then even more PTSD after the A from family incidents. We have 3 kids and there has been a lot of horrendous, life altering incidents with them. I cannot heal from anything because I rarely get a break! Me talking to him all day is the least of the issues right now.

Hellfire I’m sorry you’ve had a DDay after 10 years that terrifies me. I’m sorry about your health issues. I am struggling too.

No one else defends my H except me and it’s not all the time. Only one other mutual friend knows what happened (loosely he doesn’t know exact details) and I have texted him on occasion when I’ve been very upset.

My kids aren’t fully aware and they are adults (26,22,20) I told them all when I thought it was "just" an EA but when the second DDay came I didn’t share it and my daughter and I were extremely close it felt like lying to her not to tell her.

I don’t know why I’m saying all this honestly. I just don’t want people getting into my head. I already have bad thoughts, constantly. I’m trying to balance the bad with the good and figure this shit out!

Luna

Exactly this. He does not walk on eggshells. He says some things that set off a trigger and actually 8/10 times I say nothing. It just depends on my mood and if I’m already struggling with something else I guess.

We are absolutely much better than 6 years ago. We have more good days than bad.

I admit I feel like I’m being manipulative many times when I’m upset because I want a reaction. I want him to suffer. Trust me, I’m not oblivious to my own actions.

I get it. I used to absolutely lose my shit in the early days, probably because I didn't yet know how to handle the huge emotions and they had nowhere else to go. H called it "getting on the train." It took missing a flight when my sister was dying to realize that I could lose my shit or I could try to remain calm - and the same thing was going to happen either way. Losing my mind didn't help anything, and, in fact, hurt me because of how I felt afterwards and how it affected the people around me.

Essentially, it sounds like maybe your H knew you were "getting on the train" and didn't want to take that journey with you, so after trying to comfort you and being rebuffed, he left you to it. If that's the case, that sounds pretty healthy to me.

Forgive me if you've already shared this, but what kind of coping mechanisms do you have in place? Do you meditate? Yoga? Breathing? Distractions, like reading or TV? I always thought that coping tricks were a bad thing when trying to deal with emotions, but then I saw a little dish in my therapist's office that's labeled "Coping Candy." It kind of blew my mind and reframed things for me. Evidently, sour candies are a good grounding technique for panic attacks. Who knew?

Also, everybody is coming at this with their own baggage and their own personalities. Sometimes we clash or inadvertently offend or overstep. It happens. Taking a little break and then rereading our own defensive responses can be very helpful in mining out what's going on with us underneath the surface.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 7:27 PM, Tuesday, December 19th]

Ok. Since you responded to me,I will respond once more.

I'm sorry it makes you feel strange that I'm not vulnerable. IMO, if you read some of my posts,I've been incredibly vulnerable. I have a several page,on going thread,in the general forum where I am extremely vulnerable. I asked that it be made private for members only,because I was going to be vulnerable, and I didn't want OW to read it.

The last time I was vulnerable, outside of that thread, I spoke about being a victim of childhood sexual abuse. A few days later, I received several self help books, dealing with that subject. Courtesy of OW. So I'm sorry if it makes you feel strange. That's on you,not me. I do it for my protection.

Blue..thank you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:25 PM, Tuesday, December 19th]

SacredSoul

You nailed it. I was initially set off Sunday morning by a comment he made to me about some dip in the fridge. Had nothing to do with the A. He was more low key that morning and somehow my brain is always analyzing every bit of his behavior. The comment upset me and I went upstairs and sat there upset until he came up. He knew something was wrong and asked me and I refused so he just gently grabbed me into a hug and was kissing me and just holding me. I was still pouting but then said "you were acting weird this morning then you yelled at me about the dip" he did yell, seriously he didn’t. It escalated and I got more emotional because he said he felt like he was acting normal and I was frustrated trying to explain. He can be extremely hyper and loud and when he’s not like that it’s "weird". Anyway it just devolved and he tried to rub my back which is his way of saying I’m here and I care (I love my back rubbed it’s not like he’s doing it to force me or anything) and I pushed his hand away and said "don’t touch me". It was OVER after that. He will try and try to get me to communicate but if I physically push him away and yell at him well…

Yes we are all coming at this from different perspectives and situations. I was upset at the comments because I was already fragile. Any scenario or assessment anyone here could make of him I guarantee I’ve done the same and worse. I create scenarios more like "conspiracy theories" constantly. I need therapy but it’s out of reach financially until my get my 8 free ones next year.

So because we are on the phone I’ve had the chance to talk to him about all this. I don’t give him every detail but it’s opened up a good line of dialogue for us. He works stupidly long hours and when he gets home he’s tired so during the day is when we get a lot of taking done and it seems to be more productive sometimes.

I’ll say this. My H was a monster, was. He’s even called himself that plenty of times. He knows exactly what he did to me. I don’t need to keep hitting him over the head with it just to get him to react. He’s not a monster now. I know he never wants to be that man that had an A and destroyed me, destroyed himself and almost destroyed his entire life.

BrokenDollParts, I am so sorry you are stuck in this cycle of pain. I truly hope you find a way to halt it. Our first d days (I only had one) are the same year. This far out I feel healed. Scars ache here and there, but I am happy again and rarely trigger. If I do, it’s mild. I think what helped me is finally believing that the affair had zero to do with me or our marriage. It was his issue and his to fix. I learned to truly love ME. I explored parts of me I’d put away as a wife and mom. I like the old/new me way better. She enjoys life more. She forgives more. She sets boundaries. She pampers herself. She only allows those who deserve her near her heart. Lucky for hubby, I think he’s done the work to deserve me. I do hope you find peace as well. Also, I’ll add, I think it’s ridiculous when others come on here and decide whether one’s spouse is remorseful or loving, etc. They don’t know. Your husband sleeping while you’re said is something mine could easily do. Falling asleep from emotional turmoil and stress is a normal human response often out of one’s control. I don’t know your husband or whether he’s remorseful and loving or not, but neither does anyone else here claiming to. You know him. Hang in there