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Yet more trickle truth it seems 😭

We're now 20 months out from dday, and just entering affair season 2. It's been TT throughout but 5 months ago my husband swore blind yet again that is was not hiding anything else.

My gut has not been able to sync with this, and yet again, under immense pressure, he has cracked and divulged a few more details. These details in no way change the story of the affair whatsoever, though. They are not in any way earth shattering. So I don't feel this is some new dday - but I do very much feel back at square one somehow.

The last 5 months has seen me become quite severely depressed, drink too much, a recurrence of my eating disorder and generally just disintegrate all round. Mostly because I've known in my gut he's still hiding things. And yep its true 👍

I'd like to point out that my husband, apart from the lying, has been all in during reconciliation. He's never once blamed me, he will talk whenever I need without any sign of frustration (zero get over it already), he's demonstrating sincere remorse and I believe would do anything I asked of him in order to reconcile - apart from give me honesty.

I know him lying centres around shame and fear. Not because he wants to harm me. I actually wonder whether he is so broken, that he is incapable of honesty?

Not sure where to go from here. I still don't believe this is everything. He again claims it is. But it feels very much the same as the last bout of TT.

At the point of giving up, everyday I feel I wake up into a nightmare and so I'd rather just stay asleep if I could, but I can't.

When did you know there was no more TT? I'd assume my gut would just settle, but it hasn't.

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 8:03 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

If you are open to it consider a polygraph. No they are not perfect but from what I’ve read they are fairly accurate. I wish I would have insisted on it right after my first d day. I found out more information at 18 months onto reconciliation and it’s brutal. And my WH was doing everything right as well. I know he was terrified I would be done if I found out everything. I got my parking lot confession and after the test I know that I know everything. I was still supremely depressed for another six months but I finally feel like I am starting to emotionally recover. It is recommended so much on here but I just thought oh I don’t want to do that. I resisted asking him for one for too long. Even asking for one will tell you quite a bit. My WH acted squirrelly and I knew right away there was more he wasn’t telling. Sure enough the next day more confessions.

First and foremost, WhiskeyBlues, I'm sorry that your husband's continued lying has caused you so much suffering and anxiety.

I'd like to point out that my husband, apart from the lying, has been all in during reconciliation.

Gently... that's like saying "This car works perfectly, except it doesn't have breaks."

Complete and total honesty is one of the bare minimum requisite of reconciliation. If he can't give you that, then he's giving you nothing.

I know him lying centres around shame and fear. Not because he wants to harm me. I actually wonder whether he is so broken, that he is incapable of honesty?

Sorry, but "I'm ashamed" and "I don't want to hurt you" should not, at this stage, suffice as an excuse anymore. He knows how deeply his continued lies hurt you. He's seen how they set you back every single time you're confronted with a new revelation. He is choosing to continue to lie to you because he values his secrets over your wellbeing... and he's faced no consequences each time he's been caught.

When did you know there was no more TT? I'd assume my gut would just settle, but it hasn't.

Your gut won't settle because you know he's still lying to you! You'll never be 100% certain that the lies are over, but you'll be able to sleep a lot more easily once the Ddays stop, and his words and actions are consistent over the course of several years.

As for where to go from here, I would give him one more chance-- and one chance only-- to tell you everything. Demand a complete timeline from start to finish, and set a deadline for him to deliver it to you. Make it clear to him that this is his last opportunity to get everything out in the open now. If, after the timeline is in your hands, you find out anything new, regardless of whether it was deliberately omitted or conveniently forgotten, then the marriage is finished.

And really mean it this time.

Lastly, if you haven't done it already, make him put his money where his mouth is with an ironclad postnup.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:44 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

I'm really sorry, WB.

What consequences does he have?

"Apart from the lying" is really close to the infidelity equivalent of "other than that Mrs. Lincoln...".

Sorry your husband continues to be an unsafe partner.

The last 5 months has seen me become quite severely depressed, drink too much, a recurrence of my eating disorder and generally just disintegrate all round. Mostly because I've known in my gut he's still hiding things. And yep its true 👍

Gently, stop adding to your pain by taking poison. You really deserve to be nice to yourself, especially after a d-day. I have some understanding of how bad you feel, and the best you can do is to be kind to yourself.

Instead of poisoning yourself, do something really nice for you. Not the mixed healthy and unhealthy activity like chocolate ice cream or Laphroaig - do something that's an unmixed blessing for yourself. Watch a good movie/take a nice walk/ talk with a friend/ reread a book you love....

I don't mean 'be kinder to yourself than you have been.' I mean 'be totally kind to yourself.

*****

Has the dust settled from this set of truths? I think your gut needs some time to settle before you know whether your discomfort is your gut or simple fear.

*****

Part of me knew my W came clean on d-day. Another part of me didn't trust her, so I questioned her daily for weeks, I think, and didn't feel comfortable that she was honest until the 2 year mark - and that was with totally consistent answers. Believe me, I used every interrogation trick I could find to see if she was holding something back.

With a lifetime of dishonesty, it will be difficult for your H to switch to being honest, but honesty is crucial, IMO, to R. How long are you willing to wait? You really need to talk with your H about this, and you need to set at least a tentative boundary for yourself.

Hi @WhiskeyBlues I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this TT. My H always answered any questions I had but did not initiate telling me everything about the affair unless I asked. I think he wanted the whole situation to be rug swept and for us to get back to normality as quickly as possible but I was not going to let that happen.
We had many sessions of IC and MC and had a really great counsellor who we both trusted and respected, he made sure that my H stayed accountable and there was no more TT after that and we were able to move forward with R.

If you're gut has still not settled, it's possible that deep down you know you're still only getting TT. Just wondering if you're both having IC or considering MC, we found it very helpful in our R journey.

Praying for peace in your emotions and that the coming days brings you strength and wisdom on how best to navigate this situation.

Hugs )))

Saltishealing - oh yes, I've considered a polygraph for a long time. Although I am in the UK, so they seem a bit harder to come by. My WH has at times literally begged me to let him take a polygraph. I told him that deep down, he has built such little trust with me by TT, that I am not simply stuck on one or two issues. I just don't believe he knows how to be honest yet.

Turns out I was spot on! I've asked, why beg for a polygraph? He now admits it was the belief that they're not accurate and he could beat it. I did warn him that if he DID take one and subsequently failed, I would never even speak to him again.

Pure arrogance. Not to mention the willingness to play Russian roulette with our marriage.

The fact that your husband became shifty when faced with the prospect and mine arrogantly demanded one - well this makes me feel I'm dealing with a special kind of deceitful person.

Bluerthanblue - thank you 😔

"Complete and total honesty is one of the bare minimum requisite of reconciliation. If he can't give you that, then he's giving you nothing."

Oh, I couldn't agree more. What confuses me though is that I know he so desperately wants this - I honestly believe he would actually give up his career, stay at home all day every day completely tethered and have no contact with anyone apart from me and our children, ever again. This isn't because he wants to get away with it and carry on cheating. BUT, to me, it is still ALL about him. He is still being selfish and still cannot let go of the outcome. The above situation I have described, is not something I would ever tolerate, not many people would. Yet I know he would, because he wants this SO badly. He cannot let go of the outcome, nor his shame or his fear. And it scares me. Because its what HE wants and he isn't thinking about what I need or I deserve.

I sat him down last night, with prior notice so he didn't panic (as I know he is prone to), and said we need to draw a line in the sand. I told him this was his one final chance, to come completely clean about anything he is hiding. He promised thwrw is nothing else he is hiding. My gut did not feel right. I ended up putting pressure on him this morning and indeed, he was lying. About the most stupid thing, that has plagued me for 5 whole months! Its just about the jewellery she wore!!? He dug a hole for some daft reason and stuck to it.

He has made me unwell, risked our children's wellbeing - over jewellery!!!

At this point I don't really want to R at all anymore. I would like to keep my children's home together first and foremost, (the eldest has some stuff going on and the youngest is extremely attached to her dad), I'm not willing to give up time with my children due to his failings and I am concerned about finances and the future. But I have lost any desire to be close to him now. I do enjoy his company and I always have. We get on really well. So for now thats enough for me, I think I'm content with remaining married at the moment, but I don't want to repair our marriage anymore.

Thank you, Hellfire. Well, he has suffered numerous consequences. All of our family and friends know including our children. He appears very depressed. He has made himself physically unwell. He is full of shame and fear. He is a shell of his former self. Yeah, he hasn't suffered the consequences such as divorce, but consequences nonetheless.

This0is0fine - I agree 😔

Sisoon - I know, I know I'm not helping myself. But I am just at my total witsend from the mindfuckery. He has totally destroyed my mental health. I constantly think right, on Monday I'm going to start eating properly, drinking less, start running again, reading and generally just look after myself.

But today I believe I've discovered that NONE of that is going to happen whilst trying to rebuild an attachment with someone who clearly themselves is so unhealthy.

"With a lifetime of dishonesty, it will be difficult for your H to switch to being honest, but honesty is crucial, IMO, to R."

^^^ And this is EXACTLY what I have tried to get through to him. That his compulsion to blurt our whatever feels safest at the time and then subsequently dig a hole (because of his shame and fear) is a totally learnt behaviour. And he cannot unlearn those behaviours unless he starts flexing those integrity muscles. And yet for some bizarre reason, he seems to believe that all he needs is "clean slate", and he PROMISES that he KNOWS in future, should anything come up requiring him to be honest in a difficult situation, that he will definitely be able to do it.

I call BOLLOCKS (sorry, p's and q's)

When I am hurt, scared, or angry, I know I stop eating and I drink too much. When he is hurt, scared, or angry, he over-eats, in a big way.

Now I know there's no way I can reliably predict that in future, should I be hurt,scared or angry due to some other situation that I will not stop eating and drinking too much. Because the behaviour is deeply ingrained and I've proven to MYSELF I am not reliable in that sense, to respond the way I know I should - because I haven't thus far. I'm living proof - I haven't done it so far, so why convince myself I could in the future?

So, what planet is he ON to CONVINCE himself that he KNOWS he can be honest in the future about other things that may crop up, and that he won't return to his normal learnt behaviours, I.e his compulsion to blurt out a lie and then dig a whole?

And yet he seems to believe I'm just again, not believing what he's saying...I give up 😔

Ah thank you BellaLee 😘

At this point I just don't think he's capable of being honest, I think he is just too consumed by shame and guilt. I wish he would want to show integrity for himself more then anyone else, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I feel he's wanted to rug sweep too, and he would have if I had allowed it, but I wouldn't be capable of that.

I am getting some IC or EMDR soon, as I have now developed quite severe depression, but its through the NHS - so I anticipate it will not be overly effective. But I will try to stay positive!

He has had IC and also hypnotherapy, but he lied to both. Claimed he was not still lying. Kind of hard for counselling to be effective when you're lying to them.

MC is something he has suggested but I don't feel its appropriate for our situation. In my opinion he lies due to his own issues, which has nothing to do with our marriage. He would need to resolve this issue before I would consider MC. But at this point, realistically I believe he has proven he just does not have it in him 😪

He has had IC and also hypnotherapy, but he lied to both. Claimed he was not still lying. Kind of hard for counselling to be effective when you're lying to them.

This is precisely the reason that you shouldn't set foot into an MC's office with him. He will lie there, too.

When did you know there was no more TT? I'd assume my gut would just settle, but it hasn't.

When my FWS suddenly collapsed to her knees in the back yard, without any warning, after over 9 years of lying, started sobbing, and confessing one thing after another that she had done but been lying about in MC for the previous 6 months.

She didn't tell me everything, I doubt I'll ever know that, but she told me the "real" story.

It was pretty bad.

I was not surprised, the prior story didn't make sense, but this one did. It took me hours to process through all my old memories and reconcile what I had been told and what I was being told with what I remembered.

Around 8 -10 hours later, I realized that my FWS had gone out one evening, those 9 years before, after I got home from work, leaving me at home with the children, to "get a break", and had likely gone gone to fuck the AP.

I asked her "I was home with the kids, wasn't I?" This was something she had always denied. She had claimed in counseling and in all our discussions, over and over, that I was always gone, working all the time, and never home. This I knew to not be true, but she kept insisting that I was.

Her answer, "Yes, you were home with the kids."

Yeah, the TT was over. The "I don't know" and "I can't remembers" we're still there, with eventual remembrances of more, but it was no longer TT.

Did she tell me everything? No. I think of some of the things she said, things that she probably remembers saying to the AP, but cannot bear to speak, she has probably not told me those. But she told me everything she did and where, just not the words that were said, and she may not actually remember.

It was impossible to get an answer to "Exactly what were you thinking, what was going through your mind?" with regard to the specific "prefuck" times leading up to the fucking episodes.

So I don't know if that answers your question, it's extremely difficult to know. You may never get something quite as dramatic, and even then you may never get answers to all of your questions. I honestly doubt any of us get answers to all of our questions. The mindset of the person engaging in the affair there's not thinking about. "Hey, I wanna remember this for the rest of my life."

WhiskeyBlues, you know there's no point in seeking the truth from him because you will never get it.

So really, the question you need to ask yourself is not, "How do I know if I have the whole truth?" but rather, "Can I remain in this marriage knowing only what I know now without sacrificing my mental health and emotional wellbeing?"

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:34 PM, Friday, March 15th]

Update: This morning he confessed that he was lying about lying. Sigh.

He says that as the jewellery issue has been driving me insane for 5 months, he wanted to just take it away from me, in the hope that it might give me some peace, and the hope we can move forward.

I know I am like a dog with a bone. I know I hyperfocus on things and I struggle to let things go. Even if its unimportant in the grand scheme of things and is actually damaging me.

I think maybe (and thats a big maybe), that seeing how he has been over the last few days, and his sheer desperation, that my gut is beginning to settle. As standinghere states, we never really know. We never really can.

I have written him a list of requirements to continue reconciliation, which includes undertaking IC again. Without hesitation he has said he will meet every point on my list, and more.

So now my plan is to sit back and watch his actions and work on my own wellbeing as my top priority.

So we shall see.

I recommend having him sign a release that allows his IC to talk with you. Also, I recommend regular joint sessions talk about his goals and progress.

Your gut is disturbed because he keeps lying. If he becomes honest, your gut may quiet down.

Sisoon, this is a great idea thank you. I know he won't mind doing this. I would consider MC in the future, when and if my gut settles.

As much as he has hurt me, I do still love him and can empathise with him.

I've made a plan for myself to start eating properly again, restart my running and stick to the whiskey/wine only at the weekends. I'm a persistent bugger, so will be putting my all into refocusing my energy on me.

Hi Whiskey,

I’m sorry, but I’m not at all surprised that you have discovered more lies from your WH. I know one of the last things I said to you was along the lines of that as long as he doesn’t suffer consequences this is going to be your future. This isn’t I told you so, I am genuinely sorry that my prediction was correct. I see a lot of excuses for him, he lies because of x, y, z. No, he lies because he can, and he doesn’t think about how it affects you.

Something has to change, he needs a major wake up to remind him that he’s damn lucky to even be given yet another chance. I won’t say D or anything. I will say he is playing his hand in that he can do what he wants and you will still be there.

Wish you all the best, and it sucks that yet again you have to deal with this