SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Strangely enough, the last few posts between Drsoolers, Sisoon, and Hikingout have all mirrored the exact battle going on internally within me....

The principle that I have always tried to live on vs the emotions that come with relationships marred by infidelity.

Some of the principles/beliefs that Drsoolers espoused are similar to the ones I have lived my life by as an adult:

* For someone with my temperament, beliefs, and principles, reconciliation after infidelity is unlikely to lead to positive outcomes.

* Generally, I believe divorce offers the quickest path to recovery, though this is highly dependent on individual circumstances and personality.

* I view infidelity as a form of abuse and as such special considerations are required.

* I think some highly principled individuals might choose divorce because they feel obligated to, even if they possess the capacity to reconcile successfully.

On the other hand

Sisoon said about his wife,

I see her A as an aberration. I believe she has made amends and will continue to do so. I see my W during her A as 'not herself.'

And I can understand this. As it was so opposite of who I had known her to be. Not just the A but the way it was carried out.

Maybe a steady increase in authenticity and reduction in lying is enough to support a successful R. I say my W hasn't lied since d-day, and she hasn't lied to me - but I know she has lied to herself. Fortunately, she does so less and less. (Mind you, I suspect I lie to myself, too, but I can't recognize those lies....) I suspect I'd have accepted some TT. I just don't know how much.

Maybe absolute truth is a goal, and a BS may have to accept a learning curve with some mistakes.

My W has on more than one occasions asked me for "time to grow" as she works on herself. It is the reason I am still here as we approach 3 years post Dday.

And Hikingout has taught me so much of what my WW mindset was at the time of the A that I can truly have empathy for what she was dealing with. While Hikingout my say it is nothing mystical about it, it "FEELS" that way to me, because my W has often used many of the exact same phrases that Hikingout has used.

Though what he said about you seeing your wife’s affair as an aberration, I would assert there was much logic in what you were saying- after all you knew your wife for three decades or more when the affair occurred, you watched what she did in the aftermath and have now known her- what 12 or 13 years after her affair? I think it’s completely logical you understand her baseline, and have the knowledge and authority to say this was a one off that is unlikely to occur again, and she has grown from it.

However this quote here sums up the mindfuck I am dealing with.

My W have been together for almost 26 years, married for almost 22, raised 3 daughter, have 1 granddaughter bought houses, cars, put ourselves, and 1 of our kids through college, while prepping the last. Yet the feelings of an A with some loser, at some point was worth risking it all. I can not make my mind see this differently.

The same woman that helped me plan my mother's funeral actually taking on 90% of it....is the same woman that walked into a sleazy hotel room to meet AP. I still have nightmares about seeing her pull into that parking lot and getting out of her soccer mom van and walking into that hotel and closing the door. The level of helplessness I feel when I wake up is when I feel the most like walking away and throwing in the towel.

I can say she had a mental breakdown, because that is what it seems like to me. She was in a very bad place, career wise, healthwise etc. But my logical side says what happens when she gets in another bad place.

I can say she had a mental breakdown, because that is what it seems like to me. She was in a very bad place, career wise, healthwise etc. But my logical side says what happens when she gets in another bad place.

Sorry about all the chatter Tray, back to your question.

Yes this is what I meant early by saying this is a useful tool for R. It wasn't your wife that did this to you, it was just a breakdown.

If your logical brain can be at peace with this, I think you could get through this. I know that mine would not. Can't every unacceptable transgression be explained away using this arguement?

I would also echo your other concerns regarding it happening again but on the other hand, if it's been 3 years and she hasn't reoffended...

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 10:47 PM, Thursday, May 29th]

on the other hand, if it's been 3 years and she hasn't reoffended...

…that you know of.

I personally do not feel a mental breakdown is a waiver. And I feel you owe her nothing, same as my husband owed me nothing. If he chooses to stay I want it to be because he wants to, because it’s good for him. I would never want to be a charity case, or an obligation. I have too many things to offer as does he for us to live out that sort of existence.

For what it’s worth, I think you sound very normal for three years out. Even old wounds said it took longer than that to say he was all in.

And as for doing it again, no one has a crystal ball. Trust is a build up over time, as is being able to be vulnerable and to put your heart fully in. I think part of why I didn’t divorce after my husbands affair started a little with the idea of staying with the devil I know. I mean I could go out and find someone else- would I trust them? Probably not more than my husband- after all I didn’t lose trust for him in all categories. And over time that grew back into another thing our thirty year relationship survived and came back from. I will never be happy over either of our actions but I do believe that people make bad decisions and some are even capable of learning from them.

I stay in this forum for a variety of reasons. One of the foremost ones is to be vigilant over where I am. I wrote to keep a gut check on how my mindset is. Not because I would ever cheat again, I assure you I would rather stick a fork in my eye to experience that sorry of pain or inflict that sort of pain. But I am vigilant about staying accountable over my avoidance, people pleasing, escapism, etc.

Anyway, I am rambling. But what you are struggling with is difficult. It’s not just the mental stuff, it’s trauma in your body. There are various ways to treat trauma that may help you with the pain.

As far as what to do about your marriage, I think clarity will come. It maybe this is something you are unable to accept, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

Tray,

There's no way around the fact that recovery and R DO a fuck with one's mind, any way you look at it. That is beyond your control. There is no easy way out.

Ways to handle the awfulness include....

Accept it....

Nurture yourself - keep reminding yourself that's you're in an awful situation that requires you to make very difficult choices....

Nurture yourself with self talk to the effect that you can thrive whatever you choose to do with your M....

Remind yourself that you can't predict the future - the best you can do is take as much into account as possible and make the decision you think will be best....

Remind yourself that whatever you choose, there are valid principles that support your choice....

*****

My guess is that 3 years are a real test for a WS. It just seems beyond most people to fake R for that long, so your W probably is committed to R. After 3 years of working to change from cheater to good partner, the emotional equivalent of inertia is likely to keep her going on the same path. If you're satisfied with the work she's done so far, then, it's likely that you'll continued to be satisfied with her work.

So I offer these questions in the hope that they'll help you:

1) if she keeps working at this pace, will you really be satisfied?

2) If her pace changes for the worse, do you think you can talk with her and come up with a mutually satisfactory solution?

3) Do you enjoy being with her now?

4) Do you still want to grow old with her?

5) Do you like the way you resolve issues? If not, what are you willing to do about it?

6) What problems do you have with each choice? Are they inescapable? (Example: whatever you choose could be very painful due to circumstances outside your control.) Or are the problems solvable if you take action? Are you willing to do the necessary work to solve the problem?

*****

I used to do some product selection consulting. My first task was to identify and prioritize the criteria the client was going to use to choose. Then we'd rate products against the criteria. Sometimes the top 2 or 3 products changed their ranking if we changed the weighting of a couple of criteria.

I think what I may be getting at is: when you have 2 options that look close to equal, one approach is to worry because each of the 2 options may fail. Another approach is to see 2 good options that are more likely to succeed than anything else you can come up with.

My point is: be kind to yourself. A lot is riding on what you choose, but minimizing the pressure you place on yourself is likely to help you make the best choice.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:17 PM, Friday, May 30th]

This is an interesting discussion.

Unlike DrSoolers, I disagree that looking at an affair as an aberration would make me feel better about it. I consider myself as logical as anyone else. I have advanced degrees in a physical science and understand scientific method. If it's an aberration, I can't measure or evaluate it or predict future events. It's an unknown unknown or a black swan event I guess.

I did have a psychiatrist tell me my WH's affair was a perfect storm of events. I really, really didn't like that, but I don't necessarily consider psychiatrists to be skilled therapists.

The aberration thing is probably an uncomfortable truth for me honestly. I look for what I can measure and know. If your wife has a tendency to lie or bend the truth to make herself look better, I would need her to acknowledge that she tends to do that in certain situations and amend actions. That would make me more likely to reconcile.

Then, there is also the knowledge that in a clutch situation, she might likely have a tendency to revert back as a coping situation. I'm not perfect either. I will probably revert back to my coping mechanisms that enabled or ignored the signs in some situations. That is terrifying to me too. I have to trust that I can handle the situation and put things in place to make it easier.

Tray,

There is not always a good way forward.

But there is always a best way forward.

And the best way forward is what’s best for you. Might not be what anyone else would do.

My point wasn't that he was unaware of his own wife's baseline. Rather, I found the idea of mentally separating his wife into two distinct versions – one to demonize and one to preserve – illogical, even though it might be a helpful coping mechanism in reconciliation. My reasoning is that it's still the same individual, regardless of their actions or perceived "version."

It's more than a coping mechanism. It's a springboard for understanding my own motivations and other influences.

I made a free choice to R, although I expect my life experience biased me toward certain approaches and actions. I foresaw a pretty good life if I had D'ed, but R looked like it would be more joyful, so I chose R.

As for logic, I applied my brain to figuring out things like:

What did I want?
What did I think was attainable?
What did I need to do to heal?
What did I think was the best way to heal and thrive after being betrayed?

At first I focused on how I wanted to resolve our M (that is, sta or go), but I realized pretty quickly that I had to answer questions like the 4 above before I could decide between D & R & anything else.

Further, logic told me pretty quickly that case studies and surveys and theories would not - could not - tell me D or R would be better for me. Everything I've seen, says some people are fulfilled after D and after R. Some people are unfulfilled after D and after R.

The possibilities meant nothing. What I needed to do was figure out what I had to do to end up fulfilled - and happy. too. That was my goal. I recommend this sort of approach to others.

*****

A lot of people attempt to build rules for dealing with infidelity. I generally notice that when people assert 'one size fits all, and if it doesn't, you should D anyway.'

IMO, D is a lousy default.

IMO, logically there's only one way that will get someone out of infidelity and into a good life: each BS and each WS must figure out their own path. Maybe it's D. Maybe it's R. Maybe it's something else. But healing requires each individual to figure out their own way.

*****

Logic also calls for using multiple analytical techniques, like finding out what happens if one separates a whole into parts.

Further, it doesn't make logical sense to treat the A as the only relevant fact about a life that is decades long and getting longer (in almost all cases).

*****

I guess my message to DRS is:

There are more things in heaven and earth than is dreamed of in your philosophy.