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I really don't want to get into the whole Plato v Glaucon argument about justice. Or really the fundamental philosophical debate about justice. Despite what I just said, I'm going to wade into this, just a tiny bit anyway.

Restorative justice, is the idea that the most just thing to do is to bring recompense to those harmed and have the offender accept responsibility for their actions, understand the harm they have cause, and teach them how to improve.

The idea of "earned forgiveness" is pretty key here as well. I've mentioned Janice Spring's book "How Can I Forgive You" as having some really great key concepts around this. The offender must take action to earn forgiveness, rather than thinking it as something offered by the victim.

Under this concept, for R we can ask some questions. What has the WS done to provide recompense for the injuries? What have they changed to become a safe partner? Have they demonstrated adequate understanding of the harm? Can that alone not be justice?

Justice need not be punitive or retributive.

Leaving or staying could both be justice in its own way for a whole lot of people. I respect your individual choice of what’s right for you. But I don’t think that you can speak for whether my husband feels justice in it. It’s all very individual.

We are entirely aligned, it's absolutely individual. I can only speak to my sense of what justice is. Perhaps for my understanding you could ask him to explain how...:

Seeing that your ws has turned themselves inside out to figure out thier issues and seeing big changes in that person, them revealing all they learned about how they have conducted themselves over the years and how those ways were wrong. Getting deep apologies for all of it along the way- not just the affair but for all the things they couldn’t see. And then truly trying to make amends for it, not just today but for the rest of their life-

...Is justice. Is the apologies or the acting like the worthy partner they ways should have to begin with? Perhaps it's the making amends, how does one make amends in such circumstances? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely struggling to see the perspective

Late to the party, thought I would add my 2 cents on the latest comments.

I think anyone will agree that infidelity destroys something that can’t ever be fully restored. However, I think what matters here is what you do with that reality and whether every outcome besides divorce can be labeled "injustice."

To me, the "justice = divorce" equation oversimplifies something that’s deeply personal and situational. Not everyone gets a "net gain" just because their spouse stayed. If anything, a remorseful WS often lives with the long-term consequences every single day—loss of trust, loss of respect, restricted access, ongoing accountability, transparency, therapy, and the reality that the relationship will never be what it once was. It’s a permanent downgrade of their own self-worth. This doesn’t sound like much of a reward to me.

The BS staying isn’t some cushy "comfort and security" situation. Staying after infidelity is often the harder path. It means years of trauma processing, vulnerability, boundary-setting, and relearning how to emotionally coexist with someone who hurt you.

DR.SOOLERS, your "bad choices deserve bad outcomes" line reads more like a punishment philosophy than a justice philosophy. Justice isn’t always about inflicting maximum pain; sometimes it’s about creating a life you actually want to live. For some, that’s leaving. For others, that’s rebuilding something on their own terms.

And the idea of "cutting off your nose to spite your face"… divorce isn’t inherently justice. For some it is. For others, it’s just another painful outcome. Choosing not to amputate your entire life because your partner blew up the M isn’t weakness or lack of self-respect. It’s making a decision based on what serves your future, not your anger.

Divorce is a consequence. Rebuilding with strict boundaries, conditions, and accountability is also a consequence. Neither cancels out the damage or restores the original "house." They’re just different paths forward.

Divorce is a consequence. Rebuilding with strict boundaries, conditions, and accountability is also a consequence. Neither cancels out the damage or restores the original "house." They’re just different paths forward.

I agree 100%.

This is real life w/ kids and families. This isn’t some movie where the betrayed exacts revenge to the Nth degree. While many BS choose to D, others have no choice but to D. Reconciliation is not an option unfortunately.

While some have to resort to some pretty terrible things to keep their sanity and get the cheater to move out or leave, luckily it’s not the norm.

Though I do like hearing about a good revenge story from a BS