SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Formerpeopleperson

"At the risk of belaboring this, that’s exactly what I’m trying to say. The BS is the prize. Isn’t it nice for the WS to recognize that, and choose the BS?

Cheaters don’t "choose" the affair partner or the spouse. They choose themselves. Every single time.

There is no win for anyone here because someone who can harm others to feed their own ego or desires is not making a choice that one can or should feel good about.

Infact anyone who chooses themselves at someone else’s expense — and is never corrected —will do it again and again. It’s a pattern, not a love story. Whoever they are with will face its aftermath sooner or later.

Only thing a WS can do is show that are worthy of being a good partner and it’s up to the BS then to accept them.

Also Pick-me energy assumes the other person is capable of valuing you — or anyone. They aren’t.

They value only what serves them. And no one can sustain that, because it’s not a relationship —it’s a setup where your role is to keep meeting their needs.

1st Wife,

In your example, I think the WS didn’t choose the BS. One or more of those other factors was chosen, and the BS was just dragged along.

Pogre,

Humiliating, yes. But I wonder why everyone thinks it doesn’t work.

My wife had a history of affairs. We started out young. I was 16 she was 15. Been together 42 years. To my knowledge it's around 8 AP's. She's been relatively clean the last 12 years. But she's really fixed herself in the last two. Her reasons were abandonment issues. Her Mom tried to farm her out to an Aunt in her youth and her Dad died of a heart attack in front of her at the age of 6. Couple that with a very large dysfunctional family with a poor support network and you have a person who learned to compartmentalize and to self soothe with some very poor coping mechanisms. Then she marries for stability a guy who is aloof and works too much. Her way of getting attention was to cheat and drink to self soothe. People cheat for a myriad of reasons. But serial cheaters have something deeply conflicting living in them in my opinion. Usually a childhood trauma. But I am by no means an expert. Just what I've noticed over the years lurking about on this platform.

Your post resonated with me & I sometimes look at my WH & and as you say now know what he is truly capable of & wonder if I will ever be in a place to look at him with the same total love I had before.

It’s hard, I am now focusing on me and my healing. I have made him aware of what I need to feel okay again in the marriage however progress is slow and I find us revisiting old arguments. He has serious avoidant issues.

I no longer sugar coat my feelings to make him feel better or to enable avoidant behaviour.

I hope you heal & can move forward, even if it is in a new marriage with the same person.

Do you feel angry & resentful that you did nothing wrong and yet you are the one in emotional pain? I do, however I try to remind myself that if I want this marriage I have to move forward with forgiveness too.

Neva, if we could all actually see our waywards out there cheating on us and know their thoughts - it is my guess that nobody would ever be reconciling. For whatever reason, a wayward is not all in. Counseling, begging, bargaining isn't going to get them there. It doesn't matter why they are not all in - it just is. My guess is they never were all in - they just played the part for their own gain. They are a selfish breed.
Where I live the post-nups don't hold up during divorce proceedings. It doesn't matter who's name is on what, or how good or bad either spouse is handling finances. All assets are split equally. Law of the land here.

Formerpeopleperson

Pogre,

Humiliating, yes. But I wonder why everyone thinks it doesn’t work.

Read through all of the stories where it was tried and failed. It demonstrably doesn't work.

If you're asking for the actual "why" it doesn't work, I think for some there's a further loss of respect. Even if subconscious, it could be perceived as a weakness and may even evoke disgust from the WS. "Wow, I just shit all over him/her and look at them kissing my ass anyway. What a loser. AP would never act this way..." That's one hypothesis.

It could be that doing the pick me dance is devoid of any consequences. "I just did the worst thing a person can do to a relationship and they're still trying to win me over. I can get away with whatever I want!" Then they just continue to have their cake and eat it too. There's no incentive to change the behavior. That might even be the main reason. Maybe it's a combination of those and other reasons. Bottom line, it demonstrably almost never works.

There might be some outliers where it did work, tho I'd bet if it did, it worked temporarily, and then there's still that level of humiliation for the BS.

[This message edited by Pogre at 3:37 PM, Monday, February 2nd]

I think for some there's a further loss of respect.

I agree 💯%.

I'm writing to offer a slightly different perspective on why pick-me fails.

I think - that is, believe - the BS's recovery demands taking responsibility for oneself.

IOW, to recover from infidelity, the BS needs to find value in themself, and needs to interact with reality with eyes - all the senses and all the brainpower - as wide open as possible. The BS needs to realize they have to be their own prize.

It follows - for me - as night follows day and day follows night that a healing BS knows their WS hurt them, and they need to develop self-love. In reality, the WS is dangerous to the BS. And what healthy person wants to increase the danger in their life?

I guess R may be possible if the BS does not love themself, but I don't see that BS building a great M, and IIRC, I didn't want to R unless I saw a great M in my future. (Of course, I can't say what I'd have done if I hadn't seen a great M in my future, and my great M may not be anybody else's.)

IMO, d-day presents BS and WS with opportunities to take themselves apart and put themselves back together with more strength, more ability to love, more lovability, and less garbage baggage then before d-day. Seizing that opportunity makes the best of the sitch whether the partners D or R.

The pick-me dance is an attempt to hold onto an M that did not serve the BS well. In essence, the pick-me dance says the BS needs the old M. The BS who does pick-me dance sells themself out, which is the opposite of taking responsibility for themself.

Success after being betrayed is not D, and it's not R. It's finding joy again and leading a happy, productive, satisfying life.

*****

For the record, the WS is in even more need of taking themself apart and putting themself back together.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:05 PM, Monday, February 2nd]

"The pick-me dance is an attempt to hold onto an M that did not serve the BS well."

Is it? Or is it an attempt to get the WS to marry you again? A new marriage (often counseled here).

Chiming in on the pick-me debate here…

I did the pick-me dance. I know that I humiliated myself in doing so. Though I think that most WS would lose respect for their BS after witnessing the dance and come to believe they are the prize, and I would not advise anyone to do it, I do think there are exceptions to the rule.

I know that my WW already assumed I would stay if I found out what she was doing, so in that way she already had damaged respect for me. I also acknowledge she made attempts, however weak and fleeting in nature, to communicate with me about what she needed in our marriage, which I initially failed to understand. So when her infidelity came to light and she told me she was getting these needs met by someone else, she viewed my immediate, desperate catering to her as willingness to meet those needs, and it gave her hope for our marriage. She said it made her feel so much worse and more foolish about the betrayal. Again, I think this is a rare occurrence and I do not recommend this approach, but it "worked" for me in a way.

My W also helped me to see that I was not respecting myself by doing this, and came to agree that we needed to focus on our recovery from the infidelity before we worked on the lesser marital issues. She has been patient about it, and encouraged me to develop the appropriate boundaries for myself. She understands there will be no more chances given if there is ever a "next time," and she’s pleased with that because she wants to be with a man who respects himself.

Cheaters don’t "choose" the affair partner or the spouse. They choose themselves. Every single time.
There is no win for anyone here because someone who can harm others to feed their own ego or desires is not making a choice that one can or should feel good about.
Infact anyone who chooses themselves at someone else’s expense — and is never corrected —will do it again and again. It’s a pattern, not a love story. Whoever they are with will face its aftermath sooner or later.
Only thing a WS can do is show that are worthy of being a good partner and it’s up to the BS then to accept them.
Also Pick-me energy assumes the other person is capable of valuing you — or anyone. They aren’t.
They value only what serves them. And no one can sustain that, because it’s not a relationship —it’s a setup where your role is to keep meeting their needs.

Neva9643,

I’m struggling to understand how someone who believes this, that WS will continue cheating and being selfish over and over, could choose reconciliation. How does that square with rebuilding trust?