SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As the betrayed spouse, I went back and forth regarding whether to stay or leave for many months.

That’s normal.

What I needed:

-complete disclosure about everything
-a written timeline of his affairs, including everything he could remember about what they did and talked about, when it began, his emotional status during the affair
-for him to stop saying "it wasn’t physical, it was just emotional" because that did not help
-him to verbalize complete understanding of what he did and why he did it
-for him to verbalize that NONE OF IT was my fault
-to see him doing reading and therapy to work on why he did this and how never to do it again
-to see that he understands MY pain
-for him to stop wallowing in his own damn self-pity, man up, own what he did and provide me with an action plan he made himself in order to make repairs and recover the relationship

Right now, if you are crying all day out of your own feelings of guilt and shame, the you have made this all about yourself and your sadness since DDay. That is WAY WRONG. While you feel badly about what you did, take that and multiply it by a thousand, and you might get close to how your wife feels. Then, set aside your own pain and work on how to alleviate HERS. In that process, you will not only help her, but also make huge progress in removing the selfishness that started this affair in the first place.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it’s true. Get outside of your self-pity and ask her what SHE NEEDS every single day, every time you’re feeling bad, every time you see her feeling down. Change your focus.

All you can do is keep apologizing and acknowledge her pain. If she doesn't want to talk about it, that's her wanting space and you should give it to her.

Romantic or marital betrayal is a hell of a thing. I've seen it said many times that it hurts more and cuts deeper than the death of a loved one, and I can say that's been my experience as well. The average time frame for recovery is 2 to 5 years. Yes, years. And true reconciliation can be a lifetime work in progress.

It sounds like you're doing a lot of the right things. A few small tips tho - don't minimize (ie: "it was only") don't rugsweep, and don't say things like "it was x amount of time ago," or "we need to move past/get over this." Do not shift any blame to her, the marriage, or some external source. This looks like "we grew apart" or "I felt alone" or "I wasn't getting what I needed from you" or "I was hurt and in a bad place" or "my mother had just passed" or whatever. None of those are legitimate reasons to have an affair. Nothing really is, period. This is something in you that allowed your boundaries to dissolve and turn to someone else instead of your wife. She may not be responding yet, and she may never, but not enough time has passed for her to remotely be getting over it.

It's different for everyone. Some people can learn to live with it, some just can't, and that's just the way it is. Note that I used the phrase "learn to live with it." I say that because I'm not so sure anyone ever truly "gets over it." It's something that's now a part of your story and it can't be taken back. Maybe some do truly get over it, but I have my doubts. Some can learn to live with it, tho, and some can come out the other side even stronger than before, but I think that's pretty rare. It is doable tho, with the right people.

Be there for her when she wants, give her space when she needs it. And buckle up, because she's going to be on an emotional roller coaster for quite a while. Reconciliation isn't for the feint of heart. It's a long, painful process, and there aren't any shortcuts.

Thank you all for your replies. I take everything on board what you have said.

Its a long road that im willing to stay on and put het first before myself. I totally own what i have done and have never blamed her for it.

My biggest struggle was my lack of communication to her always used to eat everything up to myself which led me to depression and things happening in family which knocked me over the edge and made the wrong choice in getting emotional comfort elsewhere.

I will never give up on this women.. my love for her after councilling has got stronger even though we arent together is that normal ?

my love for her after councilling has got stronger even though we arent together is that normal ?

Yes, I think it's natural for you to feel like your love is stronger after almost losing her. Perhaps you now realize just how much she really means to you. I hope it's not too late.

My wife had a bad seizure one night a few years ago that lasted for almost 5 minutes. She stopped breathing for a minute or 2 and I called the paramedics. She pulled out of it and was fine within a few minutes after she recovered from the seizure. I saw her differently after that night. We had been married about 22 or 23 years at that point and I think I pretty much took her for granted. After a scare like that, the thought of losing her woke something up in me. I realized I still love(d) her very deeply. I guess sometimes it takes almost losing someone to drive the point home.

Obviously that's a different situation that wasn't of my making, but I think there might be enough of a similarity there in as far as almost losing someone you love. I never wanted to take her for granted again, and it made me realize that life is fragile and can be snuffed out, out of nowhere, in an instant. I was terrified I might lose her that night.

Then I kind of did lose her a few years later when she had an affair with someone else who also has epilepsy. Now the shoe is on the other foot and she's terrified of losing me. It almost did end us, but she's been busting her ass to make things right again. If it wasn't for the way she handled/is handling things I wouldn't have stayed. It's been a little over 10 months since d day now. She really broke my heart and we're still working to recover from it.

Is your partner playing hard to get or is she truly done.

She's under no obligation to offer Reconciliation. If she's truly done, wouldn't the best course of action for you be to honor her wish?

I understand that you want to be with her, but that doesn't mean she wants to be with you. R takes 2 partners doing a lot of work. If your BS doesn't want to do the work, you can't R.

What has your BS said or done that indicates she doesn't really want what she says she wants?

Sisoon.. im not quiet sure if she is playing hard to get.. i feel i get a hell of alot of mixed signals along with warmth from her a times with sudden coldness.

Ive had many people who are around us say we are looking better and seem to be getting on much more after seeing a difference in myself, when ive mentioned this too her she gets defensive and trys to shut it down of how others close family members have seen us. People say maybe she wants too make you feel the way she has felt through all this.

She may well be done and no return but i still feel there is something there thats why i cant and wont give up yet.

My only struggle due to us living together but working full time jobs shes not able to get alot of free space which i want her too have. We have a busy life outside of work with our 2 young children.

This may seem obvious and perhaps not the brightest thing to ask in this scenario but have you asked her WHAT SHE WANTS IN THIS SITUATION? WHAT MIGHT START MAKING IT RIGHT FOR HER?

Instead of just telling her how sorry you are, which is obviously true, but it doesn't seem to move the ball forward, so I would focus not on how bad you feel, or even how much you want to be with her - I would think you've made that clear by now, but what she would need to start putting things right again and wanting to recover from this. WHAT DOES SHE WANT OUT OF YOUR MARRIAGE?

I'm capitalizing this stuff to emphasize the kinds of things I think you can ask her. I get the impression, and I might be wrong of course, that's she trying to punish you, this is her way of punishing you for what you did, and that could go on for a while. Only she can tell you and she may not even know herself. I don't remember what you said about counseling but if she can get it to sort our her own feelings and how she wants to proceed it might be helpful. I know this can be hard to get with the NHS.

At some point, in my opinion, she has to let you know what she wants to do or proceed, because this can't go forever especially as it's upsetting the children.

One thing I'd recommend you try to do yourself is to calm down and try to engage in some positive activities with yourself and your kids - try to find some fun things to do. Offer to include your wife if she's willing but if she's not - try to do them anyway. Staying in the gloom is not helping you, it's probably making you less attractive as a man. Show her that you can be the big responsible guy she can rely on - I think that might help.

Unless she is actively banging down your door to fix this, your "job" is to disappear and fix your own broken character. You are currently a person capable of betrayal; until you do the work, you aren't fit for a relationship with her or anyone else.

Reconciliation isn't a sales pitch. You don’t get to "convince" her with desperate pleas or grand gestures. It is binary: she either has the stomach to look at the person who betrayed her every day, or she doesn't. If she’s in the "cannot reconcile" camp, your attempts to persuade her aren't romantic—they are selfish. If you actually cared about her, you wouldn’t subject her to the torture of a relationship she no longer wants just to ease your own guilt.

Real love isn't conditional on her staying. If her mental health and future happiness require her to never see your face again, then "loving her" means accepting your exit. Many people simply refuse to tether their lives to a betrayer. It is a heavy, ugly burden to ask someone to carry. If she has decided she deserves better than you, she is right. Don't fight her on that.

There are three realistic paths for her, and only one ends with you:

- Incapable: she wants to forgive for the sake of the kids/life, but her nervous system literally won't let her move past the betrayal.

- Unwilling: she could forgive, but she’s done the cost-benefit analysis and decided you aren't worth the effort.

- Willing: she is both able and chooses to stay.

If she’s currently silent, it’s because she’s doing the math. She may not even know in herself which camp she falls into. You have a 33% chance of getting what you want, and zero power to influence the outcome.

Whilst the "limbo" you’re sitting must be painful for you, it isn't a tragedy—it's the invoice. To quote True Detective: "A man’s game charges a man’s price." You played the game, now pay the bill. All of that is to say, if she's still contemplating her next steps, take your lumps. Stop looking for a way out of the consequences and start becoming a person who wouldn't have created this mess in the first place.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 9:47 AM, Tuesday, February 24th]

I take everything on board what has been said in here.

I think i may have suffocated her with thinking about me instead of her in the situation i caused.

When is the right time to have an open chat with her? Atm she says she doesnt want to speak about it cause we just go round in circles?

I have decided im going to take a step back and just be there and let her feel safe enough to talk to me again.

Broken

Don’t focus on changing for her. Change for YOU.
Seeing as how you two have been together this long and have two kids then chances are she likes what YOU are, or sees some potential in what YOU can be. I would focus on improving yourself, and then see if that manages to remind her of what she fell for.

That shouldn’t be the goal though. It’s a lot more that you work on yourself to be the best version of you because irrespective of if you two reconcile or not, you will always be involved in some way due to the kids.

Like the time spent crying over your own misfortune. Think that’s constructive? Does that do you, her or the kids any good? Why not spend that time with the kids, doing something positive. Be that helping with homework or out in the park. What about making sure you do your share of housework – not to please her but to do your share.
Present a determined and goal-oriented dad to your kids. One with purpose focused on healing or being present for them, rather than someone that is crying and silent and moody and caught up in self-misery.

For NOW then stop talking to her about the future. Give yourself some time to self-heal, self-improve.
But...
Be realistic. You mention that for financial reasons you can’t leave the house. Well... can she afford her lifestyle without you? Even if you were paying child support? Would you pay child-support if you had 50% custody? If you two did separate permanently – is it a foregone conclusion that you walk away from whatever equity might be in the family-home?
Be realistic. The present form of cohabitation isn’t sustainable. What is realistic in six months? Or twelve?
Be realistic: IF this ends in a total separation you want to have a life. That life might include housing where your kids can stay with you every second week (or whatever custody you two agree on). It will require financial changes for both of you. It’s not a threat – it’s plain reality.

At some point of time the two of you will require a sit-down to define what happens IF she is still determined that this is over. At that time it’s better that the future be based on reality rather than some wishful thinking and some misplaced sense of self-sacrifice.

Your discussions can go in circles for many reasons. I will focus on what YOU can do, because you are the only person you control in any discussion.

One is that you fail to listen to the end. This means she has something to say, it is her priority at that moment, and you don’t listen until she is done. You interject your thoughts, and that takes away her ability to tell you what she needs you to hear.

It’s common behavior. Everyone does it.

The problem is that when two people have an issue to discuss that is as important as infidelity, the rules of discussion have to change away from "normal arguing" to listening for information, to support, and to change oneself.

You have said that you break down and cry, have shame and guilt. If you do this during a conversation with her, you take away her ability to express her own feelings - which likely also include shame and guilt (surprise!). But yours overwhelm the situation.

So the "circle" keeps happening because you take it there.

Things you can and must do to change this:

1. When she is talking, do not say anything at all. Let her speak, and let her finish the entire thing.

2. Do not speak when she is "done". Sit there and count to 50 in your head, slowly. If she is "done", she will ask you to speak. But chances are, she will have more to say to fill that silence. In most cases of conflict or negotiation, this silence will be filled with very important information. HUSH. WAIT.

3. Do not try to defend yourself. There is no defense for infidelity.

4. You cannot fix how she feels. Any attempt will fail. So, VALIDATE HER FEELINGS, even if she says you hurt her and she thinks it was on purpose, or you shouldn’t have cheated, or are an idiot for cheating. She’s not wrong, it’s how she feels. We cannot "correct" anyone else’s feelings. Remain defenseless when it comes to how she feels.

5. Stick to one topic. Don’t switch around. This results in circles because you fail to completely cover any topic, and instead just have 60 topics juggling around at once. It’s best to say at the start, "I would like to stick to the topic of _____, but know we can talk about other things later. Let’s try to get one thing at a time exposed and openly discussed." Then stick to it.

6. If the words "what about" start to come out of your mouth, close your mouth.

7. When criticized, do not respond immediately. The tendency for humans is to try to defend when criticized. Instead, try saying something like, "I need to think about that, and will come back when I have a chance to dig deeper into myself on it." Then dig.

8. When she stops talking and turns it over to you for your turn, briefly summarize what you heard her say, but in your own words. That way if you don’t understand her, she can correct that misunderstanding. Let her do that if necessary. Get clarity FIRST, then respond.

9. Be humble. But in your humility, remain focused on allowing her to express her feelings and needs. Right now, your stuff takes the back seat.

10. Resist crying. Take a 3 minute break if you need one. But this isn’t about you anymore. Your affair was about you, 100%. The recovery is about your wife.

When is the right time? Well, obviously not when she's busy with kids or housework or whatever, unless you can pitch in and help. I hope you're helping her with whatever needs to be done because giving a hand if she'll let you says more than words. Of course there has to BE a time when you can talk. If things seem to be at a slower pitch in your daily life, I'd just say, I'd like to talk to you, there are a few things I'd like to say. You could even write it out and give her a note, if that's easier, but somehow I think you have to have that conversation - not about you, but about her.....what do you want me or need me to do? what do you want out of this relationship, or out of life? what can I do to make it better, make you feel safer, give you what you need. What would show you that I mean this? She may not want to talk, you may have to make this approach more than once, and she may not want to talk at that point, she may need to think about it, but at some point you two are going to have to talk about what you want your marriage to be, your relationship with each other, how she can feel safe and loved again, safe and respected and number 1 in your life....I don't think there's a template for this, you just have to get it started as awkward and painful as it is. All of us have had awkward and painful convos with our spouses and, I tend to bullrush things, which works for us, but don't give up. Put her first, try to help her if she'll let you, let her know you want to do things for her, and that you want to prioritize her feelings and needs at this point, and what she wants. And mean it. It's a good start, I think, and a start...well, good or not....is about all you can make right now. The ice has to be broken. Have courage and keep moving forward even if you stumble. Make it clear that she's number one right now.

OH....and always mean what you say and say what you mean....there's no bigger turn off than insincerity especially if she's already caught you in lies and deceptions. That's true for all of us. Be honest, sincere and direct, that will often come through even if the words don't always work. People can feel underlying intentions and emotions.

This forum is great thank you all. Im just going to relax with how i am cause after reading your comments i feel asif ive been pushing way to much and probably come across to her all about me... when in fact it should have been her!

I will keep the post updated and if anyone has anything more to say im more than happy to read and take on board

i feel asif ive been pushing way to much and probably come across to her all about me... when in fact it should have been her!

Exactly, you are understanding.

I know you suffer as well but she was wounded harshly.

Paradoxically she need your help, not to console you, but for you to show you understand and are willing to change into a better self that will never hurt her again.

Don’t focus on changing for her. Change for YOU.

I'm going to emphasize what Bigger said here.

This is a thing where my WS fell flat. I was never able to regain my attraction to him as a person because, at best, he would make a few changes to please me, and those only lasted until I began to relax. I told him numerous times that I wanted to see who he really was for himself, and then I would decide if I liked that person.

Be the kind of person you genuinely want to be. Find your authentic self. Make changes that you will be able to sustain for the long term because that's what you want for your future, not because you're desperate to patch things up with her. Focus on being good rather than on what you hope to accomplish.

You do you. Let her be her, and she will decide for herself if she likes the way you are.