SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone... Well I was warned! I'm back again! Back in August 25 I disclosed how I found my husband had been unfaithful multiple times over a period of 6 years whilst away with work. I stayed because I felt we were worth fighting for. It seemed to be an extremely poor coping mechanism for some hugely painful moments in our life and when considering how much love and respect remained...it felt worth fighting for. Both of us dove into IC and actually things were getting better! I have learnt so much about myself. We started dating again, and really sifting through the ashes to analyse what could and couldn't be taken in to a new relationship. Over Christmas it felt like we had a path forward. We knew it was going to take years, we were working through the grief in a healthy way, and it was like a cloud had been lifted from him. He was the fun person I fell in love with!
But here I am, back on here, to say I have just learnt more (whyyyyy do they trickle truthing the things we already know in our gut to be true) I knew it was always a risk as he did his own therapy and uncovered more of what he buried. But the latest is Chat rooms for online sex for 6 years.. in our home. I suspected it, but had no proof, just the gut feeling I still hadn't been told the truth. He did not willingly disclose this information in the original timeline, nor the hundreds of times I've begged him since. He finally caved this weekend. The new information made me physically sick and I escaped to my mums. I know deep down, this is it now, my body can not take this stress anymore.
But here I am still loving him and wishing we could fix this- breaking this bond feels like I might actually die from the pain. But that repulsion, that's the first time it's happened and I've not tried to rationalise his behaviour....so my question is how do I keep using this? How do I hold on to that repulsion to help me move on. To do the thing I know needs to be done? When instinctively, I'm in so much pain that I just want to run to him and he tell me everything is going to be okay.

Context:
31F
High flying career
Good family and friends.
Sporty and active.
I am not financially dependant. I stayed because I truly believed we could do it.

Wayward history:
Tinder
Chat room sex
Hidden porn use
Getting black out drunk and going home with people on two occasions I know of
Flirting and inappropriate behavior in bars

It's shame that pushes the WS to trickle truth.

The problem is the WS can't always see that witholding information instead of getting clean with all the truth, does not "make them less disappointing" in your eyes (I mean, betrayal, what else you want to do worse? There is no lower debauchery, trying to save your image is pointless, is already broken, the sordid details are no more of a shock from what you already done).

Now does he revealed because cornered or because his therapy is working?

I know it is painful, but if he cares about keeping you he must put in his head to come clean on everything.

Even if is disgusting.

You do not sound like done yet.

I understand you'd wish you are done so you can let all behind and find someone better.
But your feeling still speak of affection.

You can't force you to feel something, but you must set iron boundaries.

Give him time to understand: these are your boundaries, he must respect them or else there is complete detachment or separation.
If you need to have all the truth, he must give it to you.

So you'll suffer once, not living with the fear you will have another emotional landmine in the future while things seem to go well for R.

You first, his ego last.
He needs to become a new man, he can drop all the crap he used to do, nothing shall be salvgeable, he should start fresh or not start at all.

I agree with BFTS, that it's shame. I've never been a WS but I think unless someone is truly depraved and lacking in any morals or empathy, it's probably just really hard to reveal the full extent of crazy shit you've done. Before I was married, I flirted with guys on line and probably wrote some shit I'd now find highly embarrassing, but I wasn't hurting anyone, It's just not something I'd particularly want to discuss with anyone. But it wasn't really shameful, just embarrassing for an adult. But if I'd actually been cheating on someone it would be both embarrassing and shameful. And is there money involved in this? I'm amazed at how much people will pay for this online shit. And some of what the watch now isn't the porn of 50 years ago, there's some degraded stuff like violence that people should be ashamed of. It can impact one's normal sex life as to what they want to try out and do or they develop compulsions. Online is worse than what people think. I would find out if he's also been spending money on this because that might be another issue that makes it a secret.

As for how someone deals with this, maybe there are others who might have practical ideas here, but I think it all has to come out about what he was watching, did he pay any money, did he have any regular onlne transactions or "relationships" with people like Only Fans, is there any behavior from it he's interested in or has tried or wants to - personally I'd like to know how this has affected his view of sex if he were my spouse.

I really hope this is the end of the trickle truth. Personally I would emphasize....look, we've done good so far, we've come quite a ways, I want to put this all behind us but to do that, IT ALL HAS TO COME OUT....it's like lancing an abscess....you can't let it half go....it all has to come out....before you can clean it and heal.

It's okay to be ashamed and embarrassed, those are indications we still have a sense of right and wrong and failure to live by our standards or ideals, or we've let someone down. Shame is a good thing - we never want to lose our sense of shame because when people do....they're capable of anything. That's when they're really gone.

Let me know when the anger phase kicks in.

That’s when you will realize you cannot keep giving a serial cheater chances.

Just looking at this on its face, I don't see embarrassment at all. I see depraved indifference. You are talking about 6 years of cheating with various women while away for work. And now you find out it's every means of internet sex, flirting with women when out, getting blackout drunk and having random sex and more. What else do you need in order to conclude he has no intention of being faithful?

What difference does it make why he withholds information about his true character. What matters is that it's his true character and he clearly has no intention of changing it. Why should he. Every time you find out more he pays no price. You do and you just keep trying harder to "understand". Maybe it's easier to focus on the why instead of the obvious. He does it because he wants to and you don't matter.

From what you've described, you don't need him. So spend your time in counseling trying to understand why you are putting up with this. Why is it that you think someone who has done this to you for 6 years is someone worth fighting for?

Thankyou for taking the time to write me such thoughtful replies. It's been a really rough 24 hours and having people reply who genuinely understand has helped so much.

BFTS - That is such a good question about being cornered or IC. I'm honestly not sure. He has found a different IC who specialises in sexual compulsion, and perhaps knowing he will be attending those appts he realised that it would have to come out. But only he will know his reasons!
Your advice around boundaries is also really good!
I think there will always be affection... But it's nothing without trust. To hate him, would also be hating part of myself and I've spent enough time in IC to work on self worth to reject those thoughts! I hate what he has done with every fibre in my being... But I don't want to waste energy hating a person.

BJB- I have access to all bank accounts and have checked all records. No money exchanged thank god! I agree with your questions about sexual expectations and when I found out he had booked himself the new therapist I asked to go with him at some point to explore that in a safe space (Before this revelation.. don't think I'll bother now if not considering reconciliation anymore!)
He is still carrying so much shame. I honestly think he will carry it for the rest of his life. But that's his burden, not mine.

The1stwife- I really want the anger to hit!! I think it's a better driver for action. At work I get quietly angry...I get all my facts in a row and then nail it home in an articulate blunt way. I have been waiting for that clarity. Maybe that's why I've needed the facts so much? I need to order it all in my brain first? I'm an engineer, so that might make sense!

Hi Charity 411 - Why did I want to fight? Probably the depth of our attachment. We have been together since we were 16, first loves, and by each other's sides through every phase of our lives. The losses and the wins. He was my best friend and I believed we could do anything we set our mind to, including healing, because I had 16 years of very happy memories and achievements to back it up. I thought the behaviour started after an intense bereavement and I understood it as a horrific coping mechanism. His efforts in IC seemed to be working, and I think because I originally understood it to be work trip related it was quite easy to set a boundary early on of no work travel.
But this new information undos the mitigating factors. This was there before bereavement. This was part of who he was for a very long time, and I have to accept that now.
The new information does repulse me, which is helping with that acceptance.
I don't want to fight anymore, I just want to move on in a way that doesn't cause me more pain.
I don't regret fighting for my marriage or the person that I loved. It's just taken me one last trickle truth to realise the damage is just too deep and I need to fight for me now.

He has found a different IC who specialises in sexual compulsion

This is a really "wild" speculation because I do not understand this change myself yet, but maybe it would be helpful to understand what is going on with him. I will try to keep it within the boundaries of decency seeing the topic.

Starting from the obvious, you know how we guys work, it is visual first emotional second, that's the trigger of attraction and sexual desire.

However I am starting to believe in a healthy relationship the visual part should be following the connection to the woman who is your partner, making it deeper.

What do I mean with this: after getting out of PTSD and trauma I had several changes, not only psychological, but also physical, all for the best, even if some like this one, are confusing.

Now, usually with puberty you start to "discover your body" with all that follows.

It's both fascinating and confusing, so of course your peers talk about that.

At last you make the connection "that's how it works with women" and that's another mystery to be resolved in the years to come.

So that "mystery part" (that you will discover only once you get biblical with a girl) with the hormonal changes and the shock of puberty, with a huge spike in testosterone that grows your body as a bamboo shoot and also skyrockets sex drives hundreds if not thousands of times (literally, chemically not figuratively) spawns the first "fantasies".

How do you deal with those fantasies? Self stimulation is the first discovery, but then someone will talk, maybe sneak up naked ladies (everyone wonders just 'how are they made for real?'), and slowly you get into pornographic material.

That's likely the first contact with that stuff, right when you are into your most confusing time of life, the biggest change.

So of course mix "fantasy" + "Imagery" = Dopamine Reward --> that's the earliest crystallization of Male sexuality.

And still in complete clueless ignorance on how it truly is, because all those things are acted not real.

This might be the moment when the brain makes the first association with porn with some kind of mnemonic algorithm:

Secret, Shameful, Weird and Confusing, but also Exciting, Pleasurable, Shared by peers.

And it's the sharing part that makes you feel less weird, you understand is "Normal" it is 'hush hush' topic but peers talk about it among the group, it makes you feel just normal (and people with low self worth issue might connect to this feeling stronger than your average teenager).

Add to this that the "activity" is both pleasurable and free of charge, and you have a recipe for a great brain hooking (dopamine.... and it's free as you like! wow!).

Still is bad and shameful, you do not talk about it, is a shared little secret, and growing up you still know almost everyone shared that same feeling at some point in time.

But: when you are feeling down, that 'activity' is great for self soothing. If you are in a relationship you know how good sex could be to make your mood better and drive self confidence up. That also works in "solo mode" sometimes is the only 'medication' a teenager has.

Now that's my speculation. Once you finally discover a woman, and you establish a relationship, your reaction should be "Now I have 'the real thing', fuck that stuff for losers, I don't need it anymore".

However I am not sure this happens often. Or better it does, but not to a full extent, you treasure the real thing way more, but is still "real" vs "the fantasy you discovered while in the most vulnerable state of your life".

Reality does not fare well vs fantasies.

Even if you are fully satisfied, there might me moment when that cannot be or simply is not on the menu, and you get "the fix" with pornography.

I speculate, but being one of the largest business in the world, I believe I am not shooting that far off.

To my knowledge every guy I know consume to some extent pornography. It may be more or less of a rarity for most, because addiction is seen as "loser", but is mostly considered ok either as 'hush hush' or sometimes even with your partner if she is in the mood.

Fantasies will always have roots on our choices.

While it may seem I discovered the hot water here, because everyone knows this is obvious, my today understanding is about "the fantasy" being the main driver of it all.

Because when I changed I completely lost that ability, it just has zero effect on me or my sexuality. I was even thinking it might be some medical issue, but no, the "real thing" works fine (even incredibly better than before), is the fantasy or self soothing that lost all it's appeal. It just has no effect anymore, nothing at all.

I imagine exiting the trauma brought with it the death of the old fantasies, and a different embodiment of sexuality that is grounded in presence and the moment instead of the realm of mind and insecure childhood emotions. And I like that much more than it used to be.

So conceding this speculation of mine holds any water, that might be what your husband is experiencing with this addiction: stuck in a teenager loop of insecurity and fantasy that keeps an open void not because you are not enough to fill it, but because he does not want to step out of his teenage room where he is soothing himself up to be able to muster enough courage to show himself up to you and the rest of the world.

It might not be any physical or metal issue at play, more of a traumatic psychological issue that makes him to behave "not like an adult".

Like I said, the whole thing is still a bit confusing for myself, because I never heard of another guy experiencing this, so I might be completely off. It's a shot in the dark, but maybe a facet to consider to see if it resonates with him or his therapist.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 12:31 PM, Wednesday, February 25th]

BFTS- Thankyou for sharing aspects of your story. I don't think you are far off at all. This is so so relatable to what my husband has learnt in his IC until this point. We had begun to understand that his exposure to sexually explicit content as a teenager is identical to what he was reaching for as an adult- it is an easy dopamine hit. We had been learning about the neurological effects of porn on the brain and the dopamine pathways it forms. He had been sharing with me lessons he was taking from some podcasts he had been listening to on the topic, I was absolutely beginning to understand how he became addicted to this content.
I think porn reliance is so very common for all the reasons you mentioned, and being in the military myself, I found it very normalised and I personally wasn't worried about when I wasn't there. It didn't seem to impact our sex life or relationship.
But unfortunately the next step in to an interactive format of chat rooms (discovered as a teenager), and then in the physical form is where it all goes way beyond acceptable boundaries. He has lost all concept of impulse control.

Since the original Dday he has said the trauma has almost flicked a switch overnight- it's like there will be no rush anymore, just pain. I believe it. Mainly because there are physical differences we've noticed.I do think he was really getting somewhere with understanding why he was making these choices and learning healthier outlets. He is still carrying so much shame, there is a lot that he is still processing, and I do think there is probably more to come when he sees this new therapist.

Although I was starting to understand it all...I have still been so traumatised by it.. And learning about the chatrooms in my home. It violated my safe space and so my reaction was so much more gut wrenching. I just don't know how either of us can heal that kind of wound together.

AppleTree1 - getting past the shame is very hard to get past, and I think it really should be because that shows we really violated our own values and we know how bad what we did really is, we can't kid ourselves. There are a few things in the past I still feel ashamed off, not in this area, but others, and these things may have been 40 years ago but I still feel some shame. And maybe I should even though at this point it may not do any practical good. At least it helps me to stay in line and TRY TO DO BETTER. If there is no practical way to recompense or repent for something - like pay someone back in money for example, or physically fix something or provide them with care - whatever it is, we just have to understand that that bad behavior and resulting shame - for whatever, it could be a personal thing to someone or cheating on your taxes - is just part of what we did, and if we can do nothing else, we have to learn from it and always try to do better in the future. Every day, do better. That may not work for you and your husband's relationship at this point, maybe after he's integrated this into himself and made it a part of his way of life, it will show outwardly to others. Some things take time and are only revealed over time. To rush that is a big leap of faith. Some of us can, some of us can't. But it takes time to knit a sweater, to learn how to ski, or understand advanced math, or do anything in life and there aren't shortcuts. Learning from mistakes and being a better person also takes time, and it needs to show in everyday behavior over time. I guess it comes down to....can you spare the time for this or is it time for you to move on. Only you can decide and there is no wrong answer. And there's always the possibility that someday you might feel satisfied with the degree of genuine change in him, provided he keeps this up, and you can have a real recon or a friendship. Sometimes that happens too, but you have to deal with where you are right now.

BTW, you sound like a very level headed person. I have confidence that whatever you do will make sense and be the best thing you can do and will be thoughtful to your husband as well.