SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all

I can't count but I'm probably around 5 years into R.

We don't talk about it, I don't think about it unless I'm away or something.

He's the model H.

But I still can't shake the feeling that I don't think I will ever heal from the betrayal since it took so many things from me.

It took my sparkle, my joy, my calm, my sense of self. I never felt like the same person again.

I feel a bit like a veteran who comes home and is present but never really present. Like a part of me is just gone.

I can't fault my H or our day to day life. He's kind, loving, and I have zero fear he'd ever do it again.

Truthfully he's a better person for it.

But for me, it forever took something from me. I can't even explain what but it's something like my specialness, my positive life story.

I dunno. It's very very hard to articulate but I feel soiled and so many aspects of me were the price paid.

I still, if I'm honest, don't really understand how or why he did the things he did, but it robbed me forever of something indescribably precious.

Does this resonate with anyone?

Hi GraceLoves,

I hear you. I feel you. I could write a book back to you.

Mine is not the model WH, by far. Even if he had been, I think I would remain changed permanently in ways I did not wish to change.

I liked myself so much better before all this, and I guess I thought others liked me more as well. There is a deep hurt in discovering that I love people more than they are capable of loving me in return, and in discovering that the foundational components of my relationship were never really there, just implied, or imagined.

There is a deep humility in realizing just how easily I could be manipulated and fooled because I did not want to accept the truth, to understand not just the lies of his secret life, but the silly illusions of mine.

I broke my foot last year, spent months unable to walk and that was a very humbling experience. I am mostly healed now, but there are random pains that come and go, and there are certain shoes I cannot wear ever again. Hiking and walking on uneven terrain is painful and risky, and although I really miss the years of my life where walking didn’t require attention and was one of my favorite things, I try to be grateful that I am back on two feet, can navigate the stairs and life without so much pain and difficulty. I will have to always take care to avoid pain and future re-injury.

There are a lot of parallels to my marriage and my life brought on by that one missed step, and by my WH’s LTA. My foot will never be quite the same and neither will I. It’s not all bad, though, the personal growth and changes, and I have found acceptance for other difficulties in my life through this one. I see areas where I am growing stronger and finding pieces of myself to nurture again. It’s a never ending process for me now, navigating the challenges I did not bring upon myself, but must deal with regardless.

Best to you finding your self, your sparkle, joy and calm. I console myself these days by saying you can’t have it all, you never could. Take what good bits you can find.

It took my sparkle, my joy, my calm, my sense of self.

Looks like PTSD. There's a book called Post-Infidelity Stress Disorder.

In the end, it's up to the BS to decide to sparkle, to decide to rebuild a sense of self. PTSD can put up a big barrier to doing that. Since you still feel the effects of being betrayed, have you considered IC?

We don't talk about it, I don't think about it unless I'm away or something.

I done that for 17 years. She pretend it never happened ( kept the lie) I dare not to bring it up (preserving the lie and protecting her self image I treasured).

It destroyed me.

PTSD, panic attacks, depression, suicidal thoughts.
IN the end surrender, it all went away.

And she can't hide behind it anymore, now she is talking about it, now she is doing therapy and work to resolve the root issues.

Sure the spark for her is gone, but my individual spark and joy are shinier than ever.
It may never be the same for your Wayward Partner, feelings of love are dead for me as of today, I do not know if they can ever possibly come back, I do not care, I feel good, stronger.

And that's should be your goal. You.

If your husband can heal (not just behave), then good, it will make him a better person.
You cannot have a real R until you, the BS spouse are healed, and until the WS heal himself.

I was betrayed 18 years ago during a long distance relationship, in a horrible way.
If that's like what's in your signature it definitively resonates with me.

I do not know your whole story yet Grace, but if you feel still robbed and you do not talk about it, then you are not healed, you are sinking into the abyss and pretending is all fine.

IC and sharing your emotions is critical for you right now. Start here, vent, the feeling you have are emotions you are silencing reaching critical mass.

Believe me I know what is like. I have been there. Don't make my same mistake.

Grace, it is not sadness. It’s rage. It’s under the surface but it’s there. How dare someone take your love, your trust, and wreck it. How dare they ruin your belief in them. How dare they lie. How dare they give that attention to another person.

Human beings have very long memories. We never forget. It’s impossible to forget an insult. Cheating and lying to us are insults. It’s a form of abuse. It’s keeping a whole part of our lives unknown to us. So…we want revenge. Wars get started over revenge.

I think it might help for you to have IC. Someone you can tell your nastiest thoughts to. I know my rose colored glasses are gone but most of us lose them anyway. Life has the capacity to blindside us. It might not be a spouse. It could be a boss, a friend, or any person on this earth. We need to, if possible, choose happiness. "Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning"

Hi again,

I read the other responses and felt I should have offered you more encouragement and maybe something beyond me too and a bleak venting post. I really thought about what Back from the Storm wrote, and agree there is more to be healed in us both. I have done all the counseling I care to for now, as far as finding or understanding myself, but you should pursue anything that might help you to sparkle again, and find new ways to live your best life. My therapist had me write a hundred dreams I have left for my life, and I really don’t have many unfulfilled dreams at this stage in my life. I would just like to feel grounded and safe in my reality again, but since I never really pieced it all together or got closure, it is a challenge.

I have reached a place of acceptance staying with my WH that I can live with, but I have had to make compromises and choices I would rather not, and changes in how I think and process, which is really hard, because I have a stubborn brain. Still, I’m more sure of some of the pieces of me that are awesome, that can’t be changed, and that make this all the harder because of who I am and how I love. Be real proud of the parts of you responsible for the struggles you face, they are the best parts of yourself, the parts willing to stay, to love anyway, to do the hard work in every corner of your head and heart, to see what you can still build together, to stay honest and true to your self and others. Therapy gave me that perspective, to honor what has come before and what remains, to be proud of myself and the path I am walking.

Maybe we both just need more time than some to mourn the lives and selves we lived before, to say goodbye to the parts of ourselves we have lost, and to say hello to what we choose to fill that space with.

But for me, it forever took something from me. I can't even explain what but it's something like my specialness, my positive life story.

I totally get this, GraceLoves. I'm in the middle of divorcing my WS, but I still feel this pain. The dream of a life-long partner, a person who would stay by my side from the day of our wedding until our last breath, a person who would love only me from that day forward - those dreams are forever gone, and it breaks my heart whenever I think about it. Whether we R or D, this is the reality that we must accept.

As for being the same person you were, I don't think that's possible. The innocence that exists before betrayal will never return (for any of us), but life is full of tragedies, and none of us is alone in our suffering.

I do have sparkle, though, and I find joy in life. During the years of trying R, there was always a shadow hanging over those positive moments. Now that I've separated, that shadow has largely lifted. Grief still comes, often at night or in the early morning, but the moments of joy are mine alone, and I can appreciate them fully.

I understand. 27 years of trust vanished in 30 seconds when I discovered what my wife was doing. Were you to ask any of our family and friends if they could see her doing this the answer would have been hell no

It became worse when I confronted her because instead of Tears and apologies and begging for forgiveness I got anger and vitriol and accusations that I was hiding things. After an hour-long conversation where she just sat there with her arms folded shooting daggers at me with her eyes the closest she came to remorse was saying I'm sorry this upsets you and her words were flat and absent of any emotion

The next morning she was still just as angry and when she came home that afternoon I said I need time to think and I can't do that bumping into you and I will not spend all weekend staring at the ground. There's a suitcase upstairs, I cannot make you leave but I need you to leave so please leave. She stared at me for a few seconds, packed the bag, said something to the older two boys, said I'm leaving, I said okay, she walked out and I was convinced I would be looking for an attorney Monday morning

When we met two days later to discuss the next steps she did a 180. She was crying and begging for forgiveness and another chance

I asked multiple times during multiple conversations what did you think would happen if I found out and her response for months was I never thought about it and to me that translated as I really didn't give a shit if you found out. After 3 or 4 months she finally admitted that she thought I would just get upset, I would be mad for a few days, I would get over it, life would go on. She was so confident that no matter what I couldn't end the relationship.

That told me that she took me for granted. I had become the steady Dependable reliable trustworthy hard-working (boring) husband who would always be there no matter what so she felt free to have her fun and the consequences be damned. From 7:00 a.m. till 3:00 p.m. she was the fun flirty provocative sexting woman and at 3:00 p.m. she would delete her sexting history with her married coworker and revert to the loving trustworthy wife. She had the best of both worlds. He gave her fun and excitement and I gave her Safety and Security

I would have given my life for her without a moment hesitation but that died in me. Now if it ever came down to a choice between her or me I choose me and I don't feel guilty for feeling this way. She showed me that our relationship was not what I thought it was

These days I am jaded about relationships and I advise young guys to not get married, the reward is just not worth the risk these days. Bust your ass, wear yourself out providing, spend the weekend fixing things, do little things spontaneously to show her that you love her, but in the end selfishness wins out

I am now at a point where if I were to find out that she was cheating I would just shrug my shoulders and go on with my day. The affair permanently destroyed part of me. I no longer get that feeling of happiness or excitement when I surprise her with some token of love. I used to wake up early to scrape the snow and ice from her car but now I let her do it

Now, the affair did Force positive changes in her. One of my demands was that she start IC. I had suggested 5 years ago that we talk with a marital counselor to learn how to communicate better and she was adamantly against the idea. Her response was no, it could bring up other problems in our relationship to which I replied well wouldn't it be a good thing to address these problems and she said no I think it's a bad idea so I found an IC for myself and told her I have an appointment on Thursday with the therapist and she was upset. She said why didn't you talk to me about this and I said I did, you were adamantly against the idea, so I am going by myself and it was amazing. For the first time in 50 years I finally felt like I had someone I could talk to

My wife has been going now for about a year and a half and I am shocked that she lasted more than 2 months but if she had quit early on I would have ended the relationship. She is now processing some pretty bad stuff that happened in her childhood and honestly she is a model wife these days but there is just some damage that cannot be repaired. I just don't see myself ever being 100% open and comfortable with her nor do I see me being able to do that with any woman ever again

But I did come out of this much stronger. I was able to finally break this horrible codependency thing I had. I was finally able to realize that she did not complete me, I was already complete, she just adds to me but were we to go our separate ways I would be just fine

And as usual I have rattled on way too long. Find your own happiness wherever you can and do not rely on someone else for it

[This message edited by WB1340 at 7:57 PM, Friday, February 6th]

Yes. 11+ years since dday and I feel the same. I feel detached from everything.

This really resonates with me. I’ve written on her previously about loss. It’s the part I’ve struggled with most.

I would have done anything for him I now put me first.

But I’m pretty fed up to be honest with you. I need to find my sparkle. I was always a bit rebellious and that streak has reemerged it’s helped friendships too as I have grown closer to a few people.

However I think I am angry. It’s all about loss. And I’m really stuck. I need a step by step guide to get better. I certainly had pisd, maybe I still do.

I socialise, I’ve made new friends, I’ve tried new things but I’m still in a bad way. I’ve had counselling but feel I came to the end of the rod with it.

I’m going to make a suggestion that helped me tremendously.

It’s very very hard not to take the affair personally. What I learned from so many wise and caring people at SI is that the cheater chooses to cheat despite having a good spouse or happy marriage etc. The cheater didn’t cheat b/c the spouse or partner wasn’t good enough - they cheated despite them being good.

Once I removed the personal aspect, I took a step back and realized my H needed outside validation from women. Why? No idea. But he did. And that is why he cheated - b/c of that unfulfilled "need".

Since his affair I am living my best life. And i am certain if we D I would be living my best life. For me, the more I was unhappy the more the affair and the OW "won".

I recognized what was missing in my H’s life and his "why". And it never had anything to do with me or our marriage.

I’m going to make a suggestion that helped me tremendously.

It’s very very hard not to take the affair personally.

I do not know if it is possible for some people (me included) not to take it personally.

It took away everything from me: my reality, my hopes, my dreams, my identity, my human emotions.

It was done methodically, at least in my case, I was the paragon to demolish to raise up shitty men for my Wayward Partner. And every time they turned out to be shit she was coming back to me to dig and erode me more to nourish her next "target".

How can't you take this personally, even with all the wisdom and truth you explained, is hard to feel.

How can't you take this personally, even with all the wisdom and truth you explained, is hard to feel.

Feelings are tough, but this is why we have to train ourselves to think differently. We (the BS) feel rejected by the WS, we feel hurt and insulted, and so we *think* that they did this to us. But really, they did it for themselves. Because it made them feel good.

Knowing this doesn't instantly make us feel better - after all, they did these things and knowingly hurt us. So we wonder, would they have the done the same to someone else? Or is it me?

I think what The1stWife is saying is that yes, they would have done this to someone else. Whomever they married, they would have cheated on that person. Therefore, it's not personal in that there's nothing specific about us that led them to cheat.

That said, even if wasn't personal, we still have to deal with injury. For example, let's say you were in a bad car accident due to a drunk driver. That person didn't target you (it wasn't personal), but that doesn't change the fact that you are hurt due to their bad choice of driving drunk.

In your wife's case, maybe she meant to hurt you, but that's because you were her husband. If she married someone else, she would've hurt them the same way.

In the end, it's up to the BS to decide to sparkle, to decide to rebuild a sense of self.

I agree with this. No one else can make me happy. I need to make myself happy. That being said, sometimes no matter what one does, that sparkle doesn't come back.

I have moments of joy in my life. I have moments of happiness and contentment. I do things that I enjoy. I recently bought tickets to a couple of rock concerts, one for a friend's birthday and one to go to with my 18yo son (we like the same bands). I haven't been to a concert since I was in my teens, I think. It'll be fun. And if not, I can lounge in my seat until it's over. 😁

It doesn't just resonate with me, it pretty much describes exactly the place where I ended up. In many ways it was the worst part of the whole thing for me. The old guy died, and there's a new guy now, with a different story, who has adjusted to and accepted his new internal narrative without trying to force the old templates over the top of it in an attempt to retain the things that had been definitively killed.

We have lost exactly the thing that combat veterans lose: the innocence. In the same way we are not meant to thrive surrounded by death and destruction, we're also not constructed to thrive in the destruction of our relationships, both familial and marital. As the veteran adjusts and survives, and learns to live in the new creature he has become, so, to do we. It's so far from the ideal that sometimes the loss and uncertainty is the only thing we can see. But loss and uncertainty isn't the only thing that is going on, especially when you choose to take deliberate steps and self-guide into what is possible for you.

Some things just might not be possible for us anymore. That's why grieving that loss is important. But we humans are innovative and willful, and there are many heights we are yet capable of reaching, perhaps even with a greater understanding than the levels we were so unjustly shocked and separated from.

I don't like that this happened to me. Hate it, in fact. But I like the new guy just fine. He's more blunt, knows how to resolve conflicts with a calm and stable hand, and his perspective and awareness has expanded greatly both inwardly and outwardly. He's not as naive or optimistic as before, but far more assertive of his own interests and treatment, and so has every bit of the joy of life he had before - it just works a little differently and in some darker ways, and that's okay. His tolerance for BS (bullshit, not the betrayed spouse shorthand we use here ) has gone down, and his cherishing of his children has gone up. He doesn't ever say it's "better" now, but he does say it's improved and he's much stronger.

The concept of "healing" just doesn't mean exactly what it did before. But I can recognize it, and a lingering, accurate sense of loss doesn't contravene that it's happening, and has happened to a greater extent than I initially felt was possible.

Above all be fair to your new self. There's nothing wrong with her.

-M

[This message edited by Mindjob at 5:52 PM, Monday, February 23rd]

GraceLoves....THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. I want to make very sure you understand that. Personally I would probably just admit I don't love him anymore, the relationship is dead at the core, and unless I had an extenuating circumstance (I actually do - health and money - other people have the kids, which I respect) - I'd just get a divorce. Why don't you just get a divorce? After 5 years this isn't going away. This IS how you feel and it's a very normal and common way to feel after infidelity. This is NOT your fault. I can't even say it's his fault at this point. It simply is what it is. If someone slashed you with a knife a few years ago, would you hang out with them in the kitchen? I don't think so. Even if you understand the reasons for the knife attack and everything seemed cool now....you're not gonna forget this and you're not gonna be comfortable with him around sharp objects. It's not about hatred, it's about knowledge. You now KNOW this is part of him. Maybe it's a part he now has under control or doesn't feel the need to exercise anymore, or whatever, but this is what he is capable of - especially the lying, which I think is the worst part. My husband just recently lied to my face convincingly about gifts for another woman after 10 years - well, it would have been if I hadn't already known the literal truth - but he was totally convincing if I didn't know anything. The lying is part of him. Frankly, it shocked me how easily he lied. But....I'm kind of stuck so I make the best of it.

Instead of trying to make something work that you don't feel that just won't work, just call it a day and get a divorce. Unless you are willing to live with this, with less than, because that's what so many people do, and that's a choice and it's fine. But be honest about it with yourself. Would you marry this guy again now, knowing what you know. I would never have took up with my husband knowing what I know now. That doesn't mean he doesn't have good qualities - he has many good qualities, but they are not ones I value or that are really meaningful to me. They're not the qualities I want. I stay because of poor health and finances and no family or other options. That's it. But I'm honest about that. Maybe he's turned into a nice guy, best behavior, whatever....but you just don't love him any more, which is 100% HIS fault and it is what it is. So do what is best for you. Maybe you have kids and that's why you try to make it work or maybe you don't think you can do any better and that might be true. But be honest with yourself, that's the starting point. You're not in love with this guy anymore and you haven't been for some time.

Can this be regained after infidelity? I don't personally think so, but maybe it can for some people. More often I see that people just go through life in a spectrum of grey rather than a full range of colors. All the colors become muted or it's just grey. And maybe that's life.

Decide what you really feel and what you really really want to do, and would you marry this guy again knowing what you know? Sometimes love is permanently marred or even destroyed by these kinds of actions. You had a marriage based on a whole belief system of who and what he was and what he would and would not do....now you know he's a very different person capable of other things. You've seen not only him at his worst, but someone who appeared to be a stranger. Maybe you can learn to love this stranger if you focus mainly on his good points, but that's something you will have to decide you want and you'll have to work at it. It's kind of like arranged marriages - they're not in love to begin with but they work at it, presumably, and come to feel love for each other. Oddly enough most arranged marriages in other parts of the world seem to work as well as our romance based ones because they don't expect anything different and they have a process for learning to love each other. Or not...if they don't, maybe it doesn't matter because they get other things out of it that may be as meaningful in their society.

What do you want out of life? You can't go back, you can't erase the past or your memory of it. So going forward, what do you want? I would say plan your life in a way so you will not be vulnerable again should he do this again and maybe take off. If you have a good job,a good education, money, friends, etc....you will not be in such a vulnerable position should this ever happen again. That gives you security and makes you much less vulnerable on a practical level. Also make sure you understand the divorce laws in your area so you can use them if you ever need to. You need to set up your lines in the sand and that he is aware of it. Put money aside for yourself in your own account. Put YOU first, and your kids if any.

As for the past....well, if you do what you can to make yourself as least vulnerable as possible, I would say just put it in the past. Watch for red flags, as we all do, but put it in the past, stop thinking about it, stop looking at old stuff - not just about the affair, but about the past in general. The past is dead. Right now you are not really in love with your husband no matter what he's like and THAT IS OKAY. You don't have to be. Don't feel guilty about that! It's part of the price of what he did, and it's very common. But the less you focus on the past, while making yourself less vulnerable in the future, the more you might be able to focus on what he's like now....and if that IS what you want. It's okay if it's not. It's also okay if it is. But just let the past go as once the lesson is learned, there's nothing you can do about it, and try to make yourself stronger and better in the future. All human relationships are a crap shoot. You can't control someone else. You can only decide if, and to what extent, you will be or stay involved with them. That is YOUR decision.

I think you have healed.

You just aren’t the same person.

I don't know, 1st Wife. I'd ask....is she the person she WANTS to be. That's what I'd like to see for her, who or whatever that is. Maybe we can heal that broken leg but if we're still limping around and not able to do what we want, maybe we have to try something else because it's not enough. It doesn't sound like what she's ended up with here, is enough.

BondJaneBond

I like your broken leg analogy. This why I wrote that I think she’s healed. However for some people an affair changes you in so many ways. And some of those changes surprise you. And not in a good way.

I think there are some people that just see affairs as a deal breaker. They may try to recover and Reconcile, but it’s just never going to work. Period.

I fought with myself for a solid year to Reconcile because I really wanted to D him. Despite my H doing everything possible after dday2, I really didn’t want to acknowledge it. Every day for a year I woke up and my first thoughts were "I cannot do this. I need to D him". Not a good way to start your day. Maybe that’s why it took me 3 years to really start to feel like I was recovering and healing during the R period.

In many ways his affair changed me for the better.

For GraceLoves it comes down to this — are you happier with him Or without him? Maybe staying together has more of a negative effect than initially expected.

I just read a story about a boy who was abandoned by two sets of parents. He’s 18 and had this to say:

Don’t let rejection define your life story. There’s always something else awaiting you (or something like that).