SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Wifehad5

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING disrespectful in what I typed.

Bravesirrobin-

The OP is not at all stupid and purposely tried to come in between a marriage. They should be in a support group for third parties.

That’s the problem OP thinking they should hold space with BS and WS.

Am I the only one that doesn’t give 2 "effs" what the affair partner had to say?

It’s hard enough trying to figure out why your loved one hid how low they felt about themselves to make them betray you why in the world would we spend one moment trying to talk to these OP?

In my opinion it goes against the advise constantly told to the BS NOT to contact the AP. They don’t deserve your time, they will only lie, it’s breaking no contact is all the advice given……. OP are attention seeking liars and we’re giving them the time of day?!?!?

To the poster?

Why did you REALLY come here? It’s probably for the same reason you inserted yourself in someone’s marriage,

I do not think a single AP is less deserving of support and inclusion on SI than a WS or MH. They betrayed someone else's spouse, and we betrayed our own. It's hard to see how any of us can claim a moral high ground here.

I agree with BSR…

HigherGL - if you are still here (and I really hope you are), you may want to consider asking the mods to put a stop sign on this thread. Doing so would mean that a BS (betrayed spouse) cannot post on the thread. I think you’ve received some solid posts already.

If I had one thing to chime in on it would be that I suspect you are taking the word of the WS as to the relationship with his BW, who she is, the type of person she is, her CHARACTER, etc. And I think most would be hard pressed to deny that it’s taking the word of a person who feels perfectly comfortable telling lies to people they profess to "love" in order to get some very selfish needs met and to project a certain type of persona.

Unfortunately, it is COMMON for the persons deceived to carry on an A to include the AP - particularly regarding the BS at home (can’t tell you how many times the WS tells the AP they are not having sex with their BS, and the BS is flabbergasted to hear that, as the M’s sex life was not at all lacking). Frankly, I think the WS lie to/deceive themselves first (to justify the A), so the lies told to everyone else (the BS, the AP, the boss, the kids, etc) just flow from those first lies that stem from the rationalizations.

AND - since I’m chiming in….

As far as the fallout from telling goes, I can understand the hesitance given what you wrote about your aunt/uncle (and I’m very sorry to hear that happened, it’s an example of the damage done by the AFFAIR, but I don’t see is as damage done from the TRUTH).

Eight months after dday, my own WH attempted suicide (hard to call it an "attempt", as he was actually DEAD when EMS arrived, and was somehow revived and ultimately recovered). I’m no stranger to what that fallout looks like. I’m no stranger to the pain involved. And despite all the pain (and I believe, even if my WH had not been revived) I am also 100% in the camp of the BS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS has the right to know. If I were aware of an A, I would tell the BS w/o any hesitation. Because to me, the damage has already been done, it’s just that one person - who DESERVES to know - has been denied the agency to make their own choices.

You made a choice to engage with a married man… It sounds to me as if you regret that choice and want to learn and grow and not make it again. IMO, becoming a person committed to honesty and integrity is a crucial first step in that path.

I wish you well (and do hope you will continue posting and consider a stop sign. This site and this forum is for you just as much as anyone else here. The goal is to get OUT of infidelity and get IN to honesty, integrity, and authenticity).

Godspeed.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:36 AM, Saturday, February 5th]

I say this with all respect and sincerity:

Am I missing something here? ???

Synopsis:

OP has a match on an online dating site.
They meet.
They hit it off.
They see each other.

Then COVID hits.
Their burgeoning relationship goes electronic, mostly email.
Due, evidently, to the move to communication as the bulk of their relationship, their connection deepens.

And then, the guy springs the (relative) truth:
He's married.
But he is thinking of leaving the marriage.

So OP, who is obviously invested at this point, agrees to see him in person to talk about it.

Guy shows up for said meeting.
It's obvious that he's not going to leave his wife.
Also, he's a serial cheater.
He's married, he's looking for a long term, emotionally invested mistress, and also no strings attached sex from other women as well, oh, and all of these arrangements are BDSM oriented.

It's been going on for so long and he's had so many affairs that OP is sure that his wife isn't completely unaware. Given what the OP related in her initial post, if I were a betting woman, I'd bet a substantial sum on that. That whole situation seems over the top.

She saw him one more time to say goodbye.

Am I the only one here who sees the OP as yet another victim of a predator and, possibly, a wife who facilitates that, or at least is living in denial???

You want OP to go charging in and fix everything that's wrong with the world, because???

OK, so this woman, the OP, wasn't absolutely impeccable. OMG she saw the guy one more time (with whatever that entailed) but hell, by that moment, she'd been thoroughly played as well.

It's not like she went into this relationship *knowing* that this guy was married, and that he was a serial cheater.
It's not like she stuck around and tried to break up his marriage.

Y'all gonna crucify her for thought crimes? For thinking about 'what if?'
Y'all, seriously, this woman caught feels- under false pretenses.

She walked away.
She's stayed away.

She's working out her own damage, her own hurt, her own aftermath.
And she's present enough and responsible enough and empathetic enough to wonder if she should inform the wife.

And y'all are telling her to wade back in. To 'save' the wife.

No.
Hard nope.

OP, you got pulled into another couple's weirdness.
Even though you got played and caught feels, you had the presence of mind to walk away.
Good on you.
KEEP WALKING.
DO NOT GET SUCKED FURTHER INTO THIS BULLSHIT.

Block that dude on every possible platform, in every possible way.

Do NOT get further involved in their 'marriage,' or whatever the hell *that* is.

If his wife ever contacts you, tell her the truth- and all of it.
IMHO, honestly, you have nothing to hide.

If you are thinking, consciously, unconsciously, semi-consciously, of 'informing' his wife for your own reasons, i.e. if his wife only knew, she'd be outta there, and then...

...just don't.

As you have no doubt surmised,
you'll just inherit her problems and her heartbreak.

But unless I'm missing something,
that's not where you are.

You walked.
Keep walking.
You got the hell out of their fucked up world.
STAY THE HELL OUT OF THEIR FUCKED UP WORLD.
YOU are not their problem.
DO NOT MAKE THEM YOUR PROBLEM.

I guarantee that if you stay gone, you'll never hear from either of them.
He'll move on to new prey and she'll do whatever it is that she does to live that life.
(And I'm pretty damned sure, having lived and worked in a world where *all freaking kinds* of weird shit went down, the wife's story has dimensions we cannot even surmise from this one dimensional forum.)

OP, it might be more healthy and more useful for you to pursue individual counseling, IC, to work out this manipulation and abuse and your own damage.
That would probably be a better resource, a better help, and a more specific means of addressing your situation than this forum, which has a specific, but honest and expected, bias.

Marriageredux, if the cashier at the local McDonald's saw something and told me, I'd have been grateful. If he ever fooled a woman into thinking he was single and she told me, I'd have been grateful. My XWH cheated prolifically and I had no clue. I don't know what he told people and I don't know what anyone who knew or knew of me thought I knew. But probably anyone who knew the extent assumed I wasn't so blind as to not see and they would have been very wrong. This isn't about some crazy marriage game. This is about doing the right thing for a woman who might be like me.

Marriageredux- yeah, I agree. She owes no one anything.

So OP, who is obviously invested at this point,

OMG she saw the guy one more time (with whatever that entailed

She knew he was married. It should have ended right there. So what if she had feelings for him. He's someone else's husband. Full stop.

Had she not met with him one more time..with,as you said,whatever that entailed..then I would see it differently. But she did. She made a date with another woman's husband. Knowing he was married.

Do I think she is "as bad" as most OW? No.

Do I think she was played? At first,yes. But then she met him again.

And, you, and OP are all doing a lot of assuming here. OP only knows what a lying cheated told her about his wife,and taking it for the gospel truth. It's entirely possible(probable) he lied his ass off about his wife,and what she knows. The truth is,OP knows nothing about her,or what his wife believes about her marriage. And neither do you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:34 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

OMG she saw the guy one more time (with whatever that entailed

You may want to read the post again. I read it as she saw him twice after finding out he was married and continued to chat with him for 10 months. So yeah, she was played at first, but she continued the affair in a fashion after finding out he was married. Not exactly innocent here.

This "she owes the BS nothing", what does that even matter? We don't do good deeds because we "owe", do we? Do you only help people whom you "owe"? Doing the right thing isn't about obligation. It's about who you are. That's about character. Now maybe she owes the BS and maybe she doesn't, but why is that the determining factor? This woman in another place and time could have been me. Could have been a lot of us. If this BS showed up here, we'd surround her with love and empathy, not because we "owe" her. Because it's the kind of people we are. I'm kind of amazed to see anyone here just write it off as the BS being almost like a co-conspirator in her own abuse. Like she isn't important enough to tell. I'd tell a stranger if I knew their spouse cheated once, much less constantly. I'd tell even if she didn't want to hear it. I'd tell even if she hated me afterwards. I wouldn't tell in order to gain something from her. I'd tell because she has the right to know. She has the right to information that I possess. This is about ethics and the kind of world we want to live in.

You want OP to go charging in and fix everything that's wrong with the world, because???

When I do the right thing, I don't change the whole world. I don't fix everything. I might fix nothing at all. It's a tiny drop of decency in a sea of lies. The one thing that is guaranteed to happen is that I will know that I did the right thing. That matters to me. And hey, every drop of kindness and decency does change the world. It might change it for only one person, but that dammit does count for a LOT.

And y'all are telling her to wade back in. To 'save' the wife.

OP, you got pulled into another couple's weirdness.

Even though you got played and caught feels, you had the presence of mind to walk away.

Good on you.

KEEP WALKING.

DO NOT GET SUCKED FURTHER INTO THIS BULLSHIT.

You could be talking to anyone who fucked my XWH. It would have saved me. I didn't know about the weirdness and wasn't a party to it. The bullshit wasn't mine to own. My XWH told me "he thought I knew" and probably told others the same.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 5:13 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

3yearsout writes:

"She owes no one anything."

IIRC, you and I have somewhat similar professional experience.

We've seen a big slice of life and spent most of ours in an environment where, for many reasons, infidelity is rampant.

Is it possible that the wife doesn't know? Has no clue? Sure. Anything is possible.

I lived and worked in a high octane environment.

My second hand experience in that high octane environment (I chose not to 'play') was that wives, and the occasional husband, knew damned well what was going on. Hell, a solid percentage of the wives had been the OW themselves.

In the case of husbands, in many (but not all) cases, Hubs was in the same high octane profession/environment, or in an equally high octane environment, and there was a pretty damned good chance that he was a player too.

In many cases, the infidelity only became a problem when it became involved enough to threaten the legal union of the marriage, or when it became public enough to cause awkwardness or outright embarrassment, or if it produced a child.

In some, but by no means all,of those cases, the BS did contact the AP's spouse as a means of getting an out of control situation back in a box. It wasn't to protect the other spouse as much as it was calling in reinforcements for damage control.

Otherwise these wives and husbands had a specific lifestyle and standard of living that they did not want disturbed by what they would consider 'trivialities.'

It's more common than most here seem to realize.

I'm not condoning it, I personally did not participate (which at times actually caused problems for me, believe it or not) but it's a reality.

The whole of the world is a much more jaded and cynical place than the idealistic and radical 'total honesty' rare air of SI.

That being said, in a perfect world, OP would have made a hard exit, not a wobbly waivering exit, at the first utterance of 'married.'

It's not a perfect world and she's not a perfect person. She's a human being who caught feels under false pretenses...

... just like many of the betrayed spouses here.

And she wobbled a bit, just like most of the betrayed spouses here.

Ultimately, she got her shit together and walked.

No matter what pretense, barging into someone else's marriage is risky business.

There is absolutely no guarantee that 'radical honesty' will be welcomed or is even appropriate.

As always, YMMV.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 5:47 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

Shit, I didn't realize we were talking about Mick Jagger here. I'm going to change my recommendation to "get pictures and sell them to TMZ".

Listen, I am aware and believe it or not do have a slice of my life in circles that are filled with rich men with trophy wives where the marriages are based on money and social standing. Where exactly did the OP inform us that this BS was her husband's 30 years younger secretary who fucked him so good that he left his wife and now she's got a closet full of expensive clothing and lives on the nicest golf course in town? I know those women. I spend time with those women. They are still actual human beings. You are correct in assuming that I am not of that income bracket, but very incorrect in your assumption that I am just too naive to understand the intricacies of infidelity and many marriages in high income brackets. Further, a few of these married couples I know are actually in love and happy together and an affair would genuinely be traumatic to the innocent party. It wouldn't be "oh whatever he does with some common woman shouldn't be talked about".

Did you really just take this BS and create an entire existence for her that makes infidelity acceptable to help give the OP an excuse not to tell?

My mileage varies so hard it could cause a fuel crisis.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 6:02 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

** POSTING AS A MEMBER***

At the risk of further t/j, I gotta say that some of the posts disconcerting. We can argue the "facts" of OP’s interaction after discovering the man was married. Personally, I don’t think that matters, as whatever OP’s involvement (or not) after that discovery is irrelevant to the mater at hand. She is aware of an insidious type of wrongdoing, and is not sure about whether to report it to the victim (or to another victim). Folks here may have differing opinions on that… and so be it.

If SI had a search engine, about how many times would we see something along the lines of "infidelity THRIVES in darkness"? Yet darkness is exactly what some advocate, which I read as: infidelity is OK to witness and ignore, UNLESS it specifically and directly impacts you. My own experience and this site have taught me just how damaging that perspective is. And - as others have touched upon - not ONLY to others, but to myself as well. That perspective is, IMO, harmful to ME and runs contrary to my values of decency, authenticity, honesty, caring, kindness, empathy, and compassion.

In that vein, how often do we see here, esp in JFO, how a BS was aware of an A and THOUGHT they had Rd, only to be blindsided AGAIN, sometimes years later or for yearslong infidelity? These are NOT unusual stories/experiences… they are the day-to-day of this site. It doesn’t take long to see those posts.

The very idea that bc a WS is a serial cheater, the BS somehow MUST know about it is not only insulting to the intelligence & awareness of all BS and based upon a ton of assumptions (here, including the word of someone who is not only a known liar to his BS, but a known liar to his AP, the OP). It is also an implicit way to blame the BS for their own unawareness, and implies that the BS is somehow complicit in their own ongoing abuse. Here / if I put myself into OP’s shoes, I can absolutely understand why I would really want to believe that the BS has some knowledge, as that perspective can relieve me of the uncomfortable feelings. Yet, there is nothing, objectively speaking, to say if that assumption/belief is anywhere near accurate. And the only way to fix that is to share the information with the BS.

What I find particularly troublesome is that some suggestions are cloaked in the concept of "save yourself" from this "predator", when the VERY ADVICE (ie to keep it to yourself) is the EXACT THING that allows the "abuser" (here, the MM) to continue to abuse not only his BS, but whatever NEW "victims" he may find, and to whom we have good reason to believe will perform the same tricks (eg, lying about being M to unsuspecting singles) over & over again. It also engages a woman to, IMO, perpetuate some pretty misogynistic behavior, like searching for a "lifelong mistress" (and yes, my own dday starkly informed me that there is no "girl code", but damn! Encouraging another woman to keep silent about something like that… whoa). IMO and IME, EVERY time a WS (or a serial WS, which is the situation at hand) "gets away with it" they build upon that, become more entitled, take on more "victims" and create more & more & more damage in their wakes.

Say, for instance, I see someone steal a car. Well, it wasn’t MY car, so why report it? I have no "obligation" to do so. I can just go about my merry way and live my life. I can tell myself that it was somehow the owner’s "fault’ bc they didn’t have a security system, or didn’t lock the doors, or parked in a bad neighborhood… the assumptions I can tell myself on that front are plenty. Hell, I can even tell myself that the car wasn’t even stolen - that the person I saw jimmy the lock and wire it must have been the owners, or the owner somehow knew it was happening. Personally, I just would never be able to do that. NOT calling the police and sharing what I know would go against my values. It would eat at me, not only for the STRANGER whose car was stolen, but also for the other strangers’ cars who are likely to be stolen by the same perpetrator. I honestly don’t see this as being much different… and it sounds as if some of this is "eating" at the OP too.

ETA:

My second hand experience

Perhaps we would do well to consider the FIRST hand experience of the thousands of BS here on this very site? Including mine? I have also lived / worked in a “high octane” field (a woman among many many men) rife with infidelity. When in that world, I (regretfully) never talked to those wives, so I have no effing clue what they did or did not know. I can say that after my own dday, I would NOT be silent about it. That person is (thankfully) gone… learned some lessons the hard way.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 7:06 PM, Saturday, February 5th]

landclark writes:

You may want to read the post again. I read it as she saw him twice after finding out he was married and continued to chat with him for 10 months. So yeah, she was played at first, but she continued the affair in a fashion after finding out he was married. Not exactly innocent here.

You are right.
I did read it again.
I stand corrected.
At a second reading, it sounds more like an ongoing involvement.

DevastatedDee writes:

You are correct in assuming that I am not of that income bracket, but very incorrect in your assumption that I am just too naive to understand the intricacies of infidelity and many marriages in high income brackets.

Dee, your opinion holds as much merit and validity as mine or as anyone else's. I am not arguing right/wrong here.
I'm going to quibble just a bit about defining the 'high octane environment' solely or mainly in economic terms. Some of the players were high income and that was no doubt part of their attractiveness to other players.
The vast majority of players were very, very ordinary and middle of the bell curve in terms of, well, everything.
My point is, infidelity is quite common and stats prove that out.
The life and lifestyle that's being preserved by a spouse in denial may not be financially defined.
In fact, that in and of itself may be a reason why 'radical honesty,' or perhaps better defined as a type of anti-infidelity evangelism, may not always be the best idea in every situation. Obvs it would have been for some of you- and as I said above, your point of view is as valid and as right for you as anyone else's POV is.

The whole RUN TELL THE OTHER SPOUSE PERIOD NO MATTER WHAT! mantra on SI has, frankly, bothered me for some time. In that I didn't read the original post carefully enough, I chose this thread to voice that opinion.

I can say for certain, in my case, in that my husband self corrected and never cheated again, I wish I'd never found out. HE told me. It wouldn't have been at all helpful if someone else had told me. In fact, I'd likely resent it.

I do get it that this guy is, by his own admission, a serial philanderer. His wife may or may not know. My own situation is completely different. Got it.

gmc94 writes:

Perhaps we would do well to consider the FIRST hand experience of the thousands of BS here on this very site?

I don't find myself on this site by accident.

I referred to my experience with other peoples infidelity as second hand specifically because I was not participating in it.

Perhaps I misread, but rather than two subsequent meetings, I counted three. Plus, of course the 10 month chit chat. Regardless, I see the poster that misread has now realized her mistake.

This " high octane" deal seems irrelevant. As the same poster points out, infidelity is extremely prevalent in our society and I would think the same dynamic she points to(spouses knowing and looking the other way) cuts across socioeconomic lines. So, not sure what relevance " high octane" status has.

As to the hypothesis that informing a spouse who already knows and is looking the other way causing harm, I see no logic to that. If the spouse already knows yet is okay with it, how would telling her something she already knows cause harm? It is not new information and should not bother her.

Best to inform, in case she does not know, so she can protect herself not only emotionally but from potentially deadly diseases.

As to wishing you never knew, if you do not find out, how do you go about finding out if you have been exposed to an STD? These are rampant, and I would think even more rampant among folks willing to have sex with a married person.

I hope when you did find out, you guys got tested.

I am not trying to crucify the OP. But, surely the " wobbling" seen here is easily distinguishable from the type of uncertainty a BS goes through. In many cases there are decades of commitment and children etc to consider. The investment is not at all the same.

And, of course, the "wobbling" causes no harm to others when done by a BS vs an AP prolonging involvement and continuing the subterfuge. Really much different scenarios.

**posting as a member**

MR959- I’d like to clarify something. You write:

It wouldn't have been at all helpful if someone else had told me. In fact, I'd likely resent it.

IIRC, your WH’s infidelity involved an incident with a sex worker at an establishment that involves women taking off their clothes on a stage. He told you quickly that "something" happened, but it bothered you, and some time (years?) later, you discovered that the encounter was more than he told you at the time. If I have those details wrong, I apologize.

So, might I ask if your opinion would differ when viewed in the context of the situation at hand (which includes serial cheating, going on dating sites to find APs, and a search for a lifelong mistress)? Would it be different if it was one A and one AP, but ongoing?

IOW, would you actually "resent" being told that your spouse (of decades, IIRC) were having an ongoing A in any form? Or if he were actively cruising the singles or infidelity websites in search of an AP for a PA? If he was a "regular" at clubs that include women undressing?

I believe that piece of info may be helpful to the OP, as it could be read/perceived that your perspective (that learning some important truths about your M/WH "wouldn’t have been at all helpful" or that you would actually "resent" it), applies to the specific question posed by the OP (eg a serial WS). So, I’m not 100% clear that your opinion speaks solely to the specific circumstances surrounding your infidelity story, or any infidelity, including the specifics as posed o this thread. (Also, FTR, I do NOT, by any stretch, want to imply that the specifics of your, mine, or any BS’ infidelity story makes one bit of difference as to the pain or experience of being a BS… it is only different in the context of this particular thread and question posed against a pretty specific fact pattern given by the OP).

Now, if the OP were a sex worker and she had an isolated lap dance with someone she knew to be a MM, we might be having a different conversation.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 8:22 PM, Sunday, February 6th]

@gmc94:

Re: my story, you have the basics close enough. It wasn't exactly a strip club, it was a strange hybrid thing that postured as an 'entertainment venue' but was, IMHO, a front for a brothel, in that sex acts were offered. It was 'flying under the radar' as well: absolutely *no* external identifying features at all. No neon, no signage, no exterior lights of any kind. If you didn't know it was there, you wouldn't know it was there. You wouldn't even see it.

The whole scene was super sketchy and honestly, surreal.

Husband didn't seek this place out.

The guys he was with knew about it going into that evening.

My husband says he didn't understand what it was, walking into the place.

I believe him.

Most of these details did not come out years ago. Most of the details of what happened that night did not come out years ago.

@Linus:

While my husband crossed some personal lines that night (by his own definition, independent of me or us, he crossed his own lines in terms of what he considers infidelity) and he crossed some of our 'couple' lines as well, he stopped short of swapping body fluids. There was literally no clinical reason for testing. (Beyond that, due to exposures at work, I've been tested for The Big Bad Stuff so many times since I long ago lost count- thank God, and I am grateful, all negative.)

And that is but one of the reasons why, honestly, I wish I didn't know. Knowing what I know now didn't lead to any needed testing and/or medical intervention.

The other big reason that I wish I never found out, that more or less fits into the same category, is that finding out the gritty details (his facilitation and enthusiastic participation, in the moment) really didn't do me or us any service in terms of future damage control. Yeah, he enjoyed the hell out of it while it was happening, but as soon as the physical stimulation ceased and the hormones subsided, he was deeply mortified with himself, deeply embarrassed and ashamed and guilty.

He swore to himself that nothing like that would ever happen again, and it hasn't.

He self-corrected.

Me finding out what *really* happened *years later* caused damage rather than preventing further damage. See notes below.*

Per my earlier post (unfortunately, it appears) I skimmed OP's initial post and did not take the time or make the effort to construct a timeline of events from her post.

My impression was that she too was a victim, and while (after reading for detail) I can agree that she continued to engage when she should have walked away clean, I still believe that she was a victim.

She 'caught feels' under false pretenses.

She got played.

Did she behave impeccably in the aftermath?

No, and she admits that herself, and she's struggling with it.

I have empathy for her and you know what? That empathy isn't costing me or you a damned thing.

(IMHO, a little more empathy on SI overall would be welcomed.)

I can't quite put my finger on why...

... and I certainly could be wrong...

... but this dude, the erstwhile AP, strikes me as so wide open and so out there that it seems implausible that his wife has no clue.

He's on flipping match dot com.

Match Dot Com.

That's not exactly 'discreet.'

And goodness knows what other sites he's on, in that he's looking for long term emotional relationships (that evidently also include sex) and short term no strings attached sexual liasons *and* all of these relationships are intended to have a BDSM component.

Just by their very nature, BDSM based hook ups tend to require more transparency in service to the 'safe, sane, consensual' mantra.

And he's been doing this for years.

And he's had several extramarital relationships.

Dude appears to have a LOT of exposure.

The more exposure I see, the less plausible it seems that his wife is totally unaware.

There is much weirdness here, IMHO.

I've rubbed elbows with situations and relationships in which, for one reason or the other, one or both partners simply did not wish to be confronted by or forced to directly deal with casual infidelity, and they certainly wouldn't appreciate being cornered into doing so by someone else's 'infidelity evangelism.'

@Linus, even if one or both spouses 'know,' that doesn't mean that either or both would appreciate being approached with a conversation or 'information' from a complete fucking stranger, or even by an acquaintance or a friend. The first rule of cheat club is that we don't talk about cheat club... right?

That's a *very* personal space and believe it or not, you may not be welcomed into it, regardless of how *you* perceive the information you wish to convey, or its relevance, or its importance, or your 'position of responsibility.'

I've seen 'informing' blow up spectacularly.

^^^ This is the reason why, as I perceive the 'weirdness quotient' of the situation rising, my gut instinct is, WALK. WALK AWAY. IF IT SEEMS WEIRD, IT'S LIKELY WEIRD. DON'T OWN ANY MORE OF IT THAN YOU UNFORTUNATELY ALREADY DO.

But, I could be wrong.

Certainly does not apply to every situation.

YMMV. As always.

*Notes:

We are a little over 3.5 years out from DDay2, the more truthful DDay for the same incident years ago.

I am, personally and in particular, suddenly hit with the idea that all of this pain and suffering of the last 3.5 years was actually, for nothing.

What did it change?

What did it solve?

What did it resolve?

If I never found out 'the truth,' would the trajectory of my life significantly or materially change?

In terms of infidelity, nope.

Not. One. Iota.

What *has* changed, what *could* be seen as a positive outcome, and the importance and the relevance remains to be seen, is:

This particular discovery acted as a severe enough kick to my head that it caused me to call into question (HA! THAT'S THE MOTHER OF ALL UNDERSTATEMENTS, LOL) (NO SHIT, I'M NOT EVEN KIDDING, LOL) a whole plethora of shitty boundaries and coping mechanisms and rug sweeping that we'd unconsciously and/or semi-consciously adopted from The FOO/The FOOs.

It morphed into the Armaggedon of Relationship Housecleaning.

And, that's probably A Good Thing.

It also gave me some MOTHER FUCKING RIGHTEOUS ANGER <--- that's me channeling my inner Samuel L. Jackson <3 "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE MOTHER FUCKING SNAKES ON THIS MOTHER FUCKING PLANE!" about my own boundaries, which were seen as negotiable (for the greater good! as defined by *every other goddamned person in my life EXCEPT ME*) for too damned long.

If I/we had been able to get here *without* me finding out about a one off infidelity years ago, yeah, that would have been GREAT. Seriously.

As far as Hubs is concerned:

He's unhappy with the flawed coping mechanisms he internalized and adopted from his FOO, which led to a LOT of rug sweeping, minimizing and trickle truth years ago, and even 3.5 years ago, which honestly caused more damage than the one off infidelity. The concept that rug sweeping, minimizing and follow up trickle truth cause more damage than the infidelity is well discussed on SI.

He's majorly unhappy with his poor to absence of boundaries, a by product of being raised by flaming narcissists, and all of the damage that has caused us over decades. He and we have made strong and positive changes in this area.

But, per above, if we could have gotten here without me 'finding out' what happened in a stupid, unfortunate one off years ago, honestly, by my estimation, that would be strongly preferable.

Obviously my situation does not compare or equate to a wife who is experiencing, whether she knows it or not, ongoing infidelity.

I do find some of the entrenched, set in concrete mantras of SI, including *immediately informing the other spouse* (i.e. barging willy nilly into another marriage regardless of any red flags or other information in the landscape or on the horizon) somewhat, myopic, and yes, even potentially harmful.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 2:19 AM, Monday, February 7th]

As someone who has more in common with the BS in question than in your situation, Marriageredux, it hit me on a personal level this idea since he's so out there that surely she knows something. I didn't know how out there my XWH was until well after DDay as I kept discovering more and more. He was on dating sites. I had no idea because as a faithful spouse, I wasn't on dating sites to find him. He was hitting people up that we knew and I had no idea because they didn't tell me. Apparently I looked "happy" and they didn't want to rock the boat and ruin my happiness. There's every likelihood that I wasn't told because if he was that brazen, then clearly I couldn't be that stupid as to not know something was up. Unfortunately though I am not a stupid person and I can see in hindsight how easy it would have been to catch him, I had not one clue. If there's the tiniest amount of truth in what this WS said, this BS has caught him several times and he's pretending to have stopped. She's in false R, very common scenario and I'm betting ALL the people in false R want to know that it's not real.

Did it fuck things up for me to find out? Yeah. Does it fuck things up for everyone to find out? Hell yeah. It fucks us emotionally, financially, and psychologically. I'm sure you aren't the only person who would rather not have known. You have a rare situation in which it wasn't bodily fluids and wouldn't have been repeated. Maybe in your specific case it would have been better for you to not know. That's a hard call for someone to make, though. I would be very uncomfortable just acting like what your spouse gets up to with other women isn't your business. It couldn't be more your business. The crime isn't in you knowing about it. It's in him doing it. The tell or not tell part isn't the make or break of a BSs suffering. That's the cheating in the first place.

Seriously, I cannot stress enough that though I was married to a freak and it looked fucking weird to anyone who knew, that was not the reality I was living. I was in a good happy marriage with a good man who really really loved me. Unless you knew more, then I was in a weird situation with a freak.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 1:29 AM, Monday, February 7th]