SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Theevent,

I understand that the main source of frustration and the impetus for your change in strategy is over the "Blame Issue". By the way, you’re always very scrupulous in presenting your complaints against your wife, you always include the mitigating factors. Just to offer some validation, even if it were proper to assign some blame to you (it’s not), and even if the facts were stipulated in the way most favorable to your wife, I can’t believe she can even keep a straight face talking about date-nights as part of this conversation.

Anyway, the Blame Issue is your main thing but this bit concerned me:

and continues to do hurtful things

I have never R’d so maybe this is just par for the course, but this seems worse. I wouldn’t want anyone to be in a relationship where their partner was intentionally hurting them. I don’t care how sweet and wonderful they are all the times in between, that’s still not ok - it’s abuse. I get it that avoidant people lash out and hurt people hurt people and all that, but I think that statement is a pretty big deal.

The1stWife

You are (unfortunately) in limbo.

Yes I agree with this, and it's not fun.

You don’t seem to get to a place where you believe your cheating spouse is doing anything to help you heal.

I don't believe this is accurate. She has done many things to help me heal. The problem is, she won't stop doing the thing that is causing serious problems for me as well. It's hard to feel safe in a relationship where the partner who cheated is constantly throwing the resentments they used to justify their affair in your face. Acting like they are something I need to address instead of looking inside. I think thats the real problem.

and YOU are not healing or seeing any signs of remorse from her.

I don't think this is accurate either. I am slowly healing as evidenced by my refusal to continue in the current negative patterns. She has shown remorse, and has apologized for betraying me and for the effects it's had on me many times.

These are not good signs for reconciliation. Your life is hanging in the balance waiting for her to do something.

Having said all that, I still do worry you are correct here. Maybe I just don't have a good view on it. I need more information and thats why I'm giving it some time so that I can evaluate, plan, and see how she reacts.

But she’s still controlling the situation
...
I’m sorry you are stuck in this position. And unless YOU do something I fear this is where you will remain. Stuck in a one sided marriage that is unfulfilling AND detrimental to your happiness.

You are probably right, and I hope I'm changing that now. I don't want to have to take more extreme actions but I'm going to have to if nothing changes unfortunately.

Letmebefrank

I understand that the main source of frustration and the impetus for your change in strategy is over the "Blame Issue". By the way, you’re always very scrupulous in presenting your complaints against your wife, you always include the mitigating factors. Just to offer some validation, even if it were proper to assign some blame to you (it’s not), and even if the facts were stipulated in the way most favorable to your wife, I can’t believe she can even keep a straight face talking about date-nights as part of this conversation.

Thank you. I really try to provide a realistic view of whats going on because it's so easy to misinterpret things over text, and I know I get on here when I'm struggling so my posts are naturally going to seem more negative.

...I don’t care how sweet and wonderful they are all the times in between, that’s still not ok - it’s abuse. I get it that avoidant people lash out and hurt people hurt people and all that, but I think that statement is a pretty big deal.

To be honest I don't think she is intentionally trying to do hurtful things, or that she even sees it like that. In fact she would probably take the position that I'm the one being hurtful by not validating her pain.

The thing is, I'm trying to be very patient because I do love her, and I don't want to mess things up by what I'm doing even if she is being a pain.

Also waywards don't exactly think correctly right? Or else they wouldn't be waywards in the first place. The question is, is she willing to change that part of herself or does she want to hold on to her resentments?

If it looks like she wants to try to keep me, and also hold on to her resentments, then unfortunately I'm going to have to draw a line in the sand so to speak. I'll have to say something like:

"It's me, or the resentments. You can't have both. You have to choose one."

Maybe not right now, but when you finally reach the point where it’s time to make a permanent decision, you should get her to sign a release so you can talk to her IC. What they tell you will probably be enough.

I think that anyone who isn’t at least somewhat forthcoming to their BS about what they are doing in their IC is most likely using the time spent talking about everything else except the A.

Yeah this is bothering me as well. Interestingly today she asked if I canceled our therapy appointment. I just said "yes", but I was tempted to ask if she read the letter or not.

When she asked, how did she ask it? Like, incredulously? Or like a checking-in-on-life-admin-and-schedules kind of way? How did the rest of that conversation go?

She believed the "if he wanted to he would without me having to tell him" BS, which came up a lot in the first few months after D-day. I mean we would have one or two small fights a year. Tiffs really. That's what our entire relationship was like. Almost no fighting at all. Then after D-day it all switched. It's been varying levels of fighting predictably every 3-5 weeks since. Some fights small and come out of nowhere. Some really intense ones.

Individual therapy she keeps very hidden from me. Gets angry if I even hint about wanting to know what they talk about, and really I don't care unless her therapist is giving her bad advice about our relationship.

These things are red flags for me. I didn’t realize it at the time, but my BH told me that when the affair was going on, it seemed like I was especially critical and that I was picking fights more often than usual, some of them really gnarly ones, and seemingly out of the blue. I don’t want to alarm you, by any means, but are you doing any monitoring of her devices, movements, accounts…?

I know everyone is different, but personally I love being able to tell my husband what I’m working on in therapy; it’s a (seemingly rare) opportunity to show that I’m doing the work to become safer when I know he’s in a place full of fear and doubts. And maybe IC is a safe space where she can sort of allow herself to take accountability without an unmanageable amount of shame, whereas with you she doesn’t want to face up to the direct consequences (your pain) that comes with taking accountability… Or maybe she is discussing something she doesn’t want you to know about.The fights and the angry reaction to asking about therapy is raising an eyebrow for me, for sure.

I am slowly healing as evidenced by my refusal to continue in the current negative patterns.

It’s growth for sure! 🙌

Also waywards don't exactly think correctly right? Or else they wouldn't be waywards in the first place. The question is, is she willing to change that part of herself or does she want to hold on to her resentments?

Well, sometimes the thinking is misguided, clouded, backwards, convoluted, ect. I would say we have the ability to think clearly, such that our external actions become more moral, but it requires a willingness to question one’s own thinking and figure out what needs to change. I have found ChatGPT helpful in this regard; it has a tendency to present both sides of an argument no matter what I talk to it about, and it reminds me to check in with reality to assess the validity of my thoughts frequently.

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 1:24 AM, Saturday, June 20th]

OhItsYou

you should get her to sign a release so you can talk to her IC.

I considered this, but it also might be enough to ask her to see an affair specialist who im confident will ask the right questions.

I think that anyone who isn’t at least somewhat forthcoming to their BS about what they are doing in their IC is most likely using the time spent talking about everything else except the A.

I worry about this or that her therapist buys into the whole "bad marriages lead to affairs" type of thinking.

GotTheMorbs

When she asked, how did she ask it? Like, incredulously? Or like a checking-in-on-life-admin-and-schedules kind of way? How did the rest of that conversation go?

It was more of a life admin sort of thing. She was talking to someone, realized it was getting close to time to leave if I had not canceled. So she texted me. I texted back "Yes", and that was the end of it.

I didn’t realize it at the time, but my BH told me that when the affair was going on, it seemed like I was especially critical and that I was picking fights more often than usual, some of them really gnarly ones, and seemingly out of the blue. I don’t want to alarm you, by any means, but are you doing any monitoring of her devices, movements, accounts…?

I can see her location, and I can look at her email and any other accounts she has logged in on her computer with.

In reality though, in today's world, and especially with her job she could easily have another affair and it would be hard to tell.

Also during her affair she was extra pleasant. Distracted a bit, but thats it. No fighting. No anger. She was practally glowing.

I honestly don't think she is in another affair. Just really stuck in this pattern and im concerned its actually a difference of beliefs and she is unwilling to see it any other way.

It's moreso the change in behavior from the norm that can be a tell, rather than the actual behavior itself. Whether that's truculence to push the BH away, or a new glow for no apparent reason...I could definitely be wrong and like I said, I don't want to alarm you. But maybe keep an eye on it.

Hang in there. I have a feeling you will get clarity within the next few months.