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Thanks for the update, you need move quickly on this, you need to protect your kids from this mess. I agree with other that R isn’t an option for you. You also need to find out was this man ever alone with your kids?

In this case I believe the AP is a victim.

IMHO too much weight is placed on evidence or proof.
It’s enough that YOU are convinced. It can help if you have enough to convince stakeholders to the family such as your/her parents, but at the end of the day it’s enough that YOU are convinced.
Unless… infidelity was to factor in divorce. In that case you need an attorney’s advice on what is considered proof enough, and then work towards getting that level of proof. It’s not common that infidelity factors at all in divorce though.

It’s not as if you state she’s having an affair and if you can’t prove it, she isn’t. She can deny all she wants. All that’s really needed is that YOU are convinced. Are you?

This is quite important. We have had instances here where everything shouts affair. Just like your case does. Everything you have so strongly indicates your wife and the OM are having an affair. Now – imagine you confront her with her parents in the room. For a minute let’s say she denies and when you pull out the texts she minimizes and says they are fantasy and that actually nothing ever happened… It’s not as if her parents are the jury and they get to decide if you or she "wins". Its not as if they decide she "wins" and that makes you crazy and you have to settle with their decision. It’s not as if when asked by concerned friends and colleagues that you have to pull out pictures and DNA evidence. It’s enough that YOU are convinced.

If YOU are convinced she’s having an affair… well… that’s it. That’s all that’s needed.

Is reconciliation possible? Well… yes.
But it’s not necessarily what you should do.
What you do next is dependent on several factors. One of them being what you want, but no less what you are offered.
Like if she denies the affair… you can’t reconcile. If she isn’t willing to reconcile… you can’t reconcile. If she were to fess up and convince you that she wants this marriage… then you could reconcile. But only if that is what you wanted.
There is nobody holding a gun to you demanding you reconcile, not any more than you should allow anyone to hold a gun to you demanding divorce.

Fortunately for you the first steps after confrontation are basically the same irrespective of R or D.

Personally I think we BS often try to set too many conditions for our spouse on confronting. I think we should focus on what WE can control, and that us and our actions. A typical confrontation speech would be something like:
"Wife. I have discovered that you are having an affair with OM. I have enough evidence to make this totally irrefutable and know that you two have had sex multiple times, shared intimate texts and messages and that you have broken the marital vows repeatedly. I envisioned growing old with you but have realized that there is something immensely worse than losing you, and that is sharing you.
I don’t share my wife.

I hereby relinquish any expectations or demands I can make on you as a husband. In my eyes you are no longer bound by the expectations of a wife, not any more than I am your husband. There is a legal procedure that needs to take place and that procedure controls how we divide assets, arrange custody and all that. There is no rush per se, so I will start that procedure once I am emotionally in a better place to do so.

You are free to be with OM. You can date, move into his bed, go to Temple together, make plans for the future… but not as my wife. It would be respectful to not be too obvious around my home and our children, but in my mind you really aren’t bound by your vows as my wife.

If you want to have any chance of saving this marriage you need to show me with words and actions. I need the absolute truth down to the detail I demand, I need total accountability and total NC with OM. There is no guarrantee, but a basic principle in my life is I dont share my wife."

And then you go and watch TV or wax the car or whatever. You have stated what you are going to do and what she can do if she wants the marriage. You then control your speed depending on her actions.

Depending on local laws I’m fairly certain you can legally demand OM leaves the house. This is not necessarily straight forward though. If he has a legally registered residence in the home you might not be able to kick him out per se. That’s something you need to clear with your attorney. Same with your wife. Be very careful here… If OM has a legal residence in the home, if your wife has one too and if her parents are owners… definitely confirm your options with an attorney.

The living-pattern (sharing house with parents in law) might add complexity to any future steps. Don’t expect her parents to favor you over her if you do decide to divorce.

Friend – You have options. They might not be nice options, but you have a lot of control over how you play the crappy cards you were dealt.

OC nailed it from the start ~ it's a sordid mess.
He cant just go booting people out willy nilly as he has no right of exclusive occupation. He has a legal mess there regarding ownership of the home.
The police are not going to launch an investigation when he doesnt have any proof whatsoever the relationship began when the child was a minor.
It may have been relevant to ousting the wife if that's what he wanted if the wife and he were the owners, which they arent.
There are moral laws that have been broken, but as to whether she has committed an offence, no proof.
OC is potentially a man with 5 kids at risk and no home. This is why leaving a relationship is so bloody hard even where there has been abuse (that's what this level of betrayal is).
I am so sorry OC.
I hope you can get some answers from your lawyer.

As to the question of grooming or underage sex, I'm sure I'll have a better idea once I've talked to an attorney, but from where I'm at now, the evidence doesn't seem to point to that, and even if there was underage sex I don't see how I'd prove it.

I'm not inclined to make any unsupportable accusations to the family judge if it would just make me look vindictive. I'm sure they hear all kinds of crazy accusations on the regular, most of them complete fabrications.

I think the bigger concern here is what kind of liability might your WW face if things blow up. Could she end up facing criminal charges? Might the AP decide to sue her in civil court? Right now, your finances are tied to hers, so I don't think it's much a matter of what YOU might use in a divorce scenario as much as how much potential liability has she caused to your family's financial security.

While I agree that she has predated upon the AP and taken advantage of his immaturity, that's not something you can change. You don't have a magic wand or a time machine. What you can do though is make sure that you've protected your assets as best you can. You've got your own children to consider and their quality of life.

I think the bigger concern here is what kind of liability might your WW face if things blow up. Could she end up facing criminal charges? Might the AP decide to sue her in civil court? Right now, your finances are tied to hers, so I don't think it's much a matter of what YOU might use in a divorce scenario as much as how much potential liability has she caused to your family's financial security.

While I agree that she has predated upon the AP and taken advantage of his immaturity, that's not something you can change. You don't have a magic wand or a time machine. What you can do though is make sure that you've protected your assets as best you can. You've got your own children to consider and their quality of life.

I completely agree. Which is why, as painful as it is, I'm waiting until I've talked to the attorney before I tip my hand. When I move it will be with a plan, informed, and to win. My kids are my highest priority and I can't afford to lose everything because I acted rashly. This situation is more complex than most and I need to be playing for keeps.

And to those who are concerned about AP being near my kids; I don't believe he is a clear and present danger to them or me at the moment. The danger will come when I've upset the status quo, and I have to be prepared and have a plan in place to minimize everyone's risk once I do that.

I'll only get the benefit of surprise once, and I have to use that to take the initiative and keep it.

[This message edited by OxfordComma at 9:18 PM, Sunday, December 4th]

Agree. You need to get everything in a row.

When I move it will be with a plan, informed, and to win. My kids are my highest priority and I can't afford to lose everything because I acted rashly. This situation is more complex than most and I need to be playing for keeps.

And to those who are concerned about AP being near my kids; I don't believe he is a clear and present danger to them or me at the moment. The danger will come when I've upset the status quo, and I have to be prepared and have a plan in place to minimize everyone's risk once I do that.

YES, excellent. Everything you said.

And you’re absolutely right about the fleeting element of surprise.

Continue getting those ducks in a row and strike from a position of strength and confidence, informed, poised and prepared. You’ll have them at a disadvantage and you’ll be able to keep them there long enough to establish a new beach head in your lives, a position of relative security for you and your kids to launch the next chapter in your lives.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:32 PM, Sunday, December 4th]

Your last post is exactly right!!!

I still think you need your attorney with you when you confront. There was an exact replica of this on tv except the cheater was the husband and the young person was a female. He talked her into stabbing his wife to death.
You are dealing with a damaged young man whose testosterone is at its highest. He is a trigger waiting to be pulled. Your wife has started an affair with your children around. She is not to be trusted and both of them to be feared. No joke.

And to those who are concerned about AP being near my kids; I don't believe he is a clear and present danger to them or me at the moment. The danger will come when I've upset the status quo, and I have to be prepared and have a plan in place to minimize everyone's risk once I do that.

Ok, you are the man on the scene and you have to make that call.

My word of caution was due, in part, to a personal experience that was very similar involving family friends where the wife was involved with a young man that they had taken in to try and help get back on his feet. Husband found out, exposed and the situation turned shockingly violent when it all came out. This guy (AP) showed absolutely no indication that he was capable of doing what he did.

My advice is to err on the side of caution always.

With that, I will say no more.

Strength to you as you formulate and execute your plan in accordance with your attorney's direction.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:53 PM, Monday, December 5th]

Yes, please be very, very careful. As others have stated, this situation has a high potential of getting ugly.

Talked with a relative ( sex abuse counselor ) about kids who suffer sex abuse and traumas. She said these kids can get highly sexualized and sometimes eqate it with showing love. Sometimes very strong and comes out of nowhere. Caregivers can be blindsided.

I think you're doing well. Find a moment for yourself in the middle of the storm.

I'll only get the benefit of surprise once, and I have to use that to take the initiative and keep it.

How are you holding it together and maintaining some semblance of normalcy during this purgatory you are living in? Surely your WW must intuit or suspect that something, possibly "the jig", is up?

How are you holding it together and maintaining some semblance of normalcy during this purgatory you are living in? Surely your WW must intuit or suspect that something, possibly "the jig", is up?

I have ADHD and have dealt with social anxiety for most of my life. I have a lot of practice pretending to be fine when I'm not. She's noticed that something was wrong once or twice, but I just blamed it on work stress, and have a pretty good handle on myself for now. Lots of mindfulness meditation and breathing exercises in the bathroom when I can't deal. Pouring my attention into the kids helps, too. Hopefully, I'll have my ducks in a row before this weekend, then I can start the process for real.

I'll only get the benefit of surprise once, and I have to use that to take the initiative and keep it.

My reco is to reframe that to something like, 'I'll focus on what is best for me, and keeping that focus will enable me to have the initiative as long as this goes on.'

Right now, the consensus is to hold off confronting until you know what you're dealing with. Surprise may get you some revelation that are helpful, but you'll be able to keep the initiative by focusing on achieving your goals.

What do you want that you can get? (Lots of us wanted time machines....) Are you open to R? If your W goes off with this poor kid, are you willing to wait? If she wants to come back a few months later, would you be open to that? Do you want a quick D? All of those can be honorable, effective courses of action, but you have to choose which one you'll adopt, and you have to follow the course honorably, and you have to make it effective for yourself.

IMO, you need to act pretty quickly, because it's odds on that your W is hurting this kid and because getting it out into the open is good for you. But you don't need to decide on what confrontation means to your M yet. It may take time for you to make those decisions, and your W's response might affect your choice.

Maybe she'll defend herself and her actions and her true love. But what if she responds, 'What have I done? How could I have taken myself so far off course?'

The decisions about your M will affect decades of your life. It makes sense that they're not easy choices, and it makes sense that these decisions take time.

But attempting to separate your W from this child is something that is best done ASAP.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:17 PM, Tuesday, December 6th]

Hi Sisoon, thanks for the advice! That seems like a healthy way to approach this mess. I was open to reconciliation at first, but as I progressively comprehend how genuinely destructive her behavior has been, I don't know anymore. It's reassuring to think I don't have to know for sure before the confrontation.

@Bigger, thanks for your comment as well. You provide some much-needed perspective. I'll try to keep everyone's comments in mind as I proceed.

This forum has just been a fantastic support as I figure out what I want and need to do about this situation. Hopefully, I'll have more to report soon. Thanks to everyone for all your comments and insights!

OC, I'm sorry you are here brother. Your situation and your wife's actions are just unthinkable and my heart aches for you and your children.

You've been given a lot of good advice, some of the most important being that this is not your fault, and you are not alone.

The only two pieces of advice that I dont agree with is the recommendation not to talk with your Bishop and the suggestion to serve your wife divorce papers publicly at church. My perspective comes as a fellow active member of the church who has been on the recieving end of infidelity/betrayal that nearly cost me my marriage and my kids intact home life.

The primary reason I reccommend talking with your Bishop is that you and your children are going to need as much support as possible to get through this, and men tend to isolate themselves when they have been betrayed in this manner. You've done nothing wrong, and you shouldnt be cut off from the love and support you are going to need to get through this.

The other reason is making sure you control the narrative before her version of "the truth" comes out. From what you've shared I'm guessing (correct /ignore if I'm wrong) that your wife has the reputation of a kind, loving, selfless woman who takes in troubled youth and raises them as her own. The type of woman who is incapable of the things that you now have proof of.

Therein lies your peril if you dont get out ahead of this. When you expose her, she is going to come to the harsh reality that she may lose EVERYTHING. Her marriage, financial stability, her good reputation, her membership in the church, her relationship with her parents/family/friends, and possibly her home and children, not to mention her new lover (as sickening as that is).

She is going to be abruptly backed into a corner. This kid will be in the same boat, and you dont know how either will react.

When wayward spouses get confronted, it is very typical for them to lash out as a self defense mechanism. I've seen first hand two instances in the church within my very close circle of family/friends where the husband was accused of domestic abuse and inappropriate actions with their children during divorce/infidelity. And while nobody knows with 100% certainty what goes on behind closed doors, I know from first hand experience that the two accusers were manipulative people prone to lying and the actions seemed out of character for the accused husbands. In both cases, the husband lost complete access to their children (not even supervised visitation), were financially ruined, and one was so devastated he ended his life a couple years later. You and your children cannot afford for this to become your reality.

In your situation, until you confront your wife and ascertain how she reacts, you have to assume that you have 2 enemies living in your house conspiring against you. In fact, you already know they are betraying and conspiring against you.

It may not happen, but if your wife decides to make false allegations, she may enlist this kid to back up her story, and then its the word of 2 against 1, and she could go to the Bishop with her sob story of your abuse, and could tell the same to anyone else at church who will listen. I think it's human nature to give more weight to the first version of a story you are told, and if your wife is viewed as a saint incapable of such actions, your side of the story may not be believed. I know very few men in the church or otherwise who are respected enough to be given the complete benefit of the doubt in that situation. Fortunately, you have proof of her/their actions. Guard it carefully.

Your wife and this kid may have abandoned every tenet of their faith, but that doesnt mean that you have to. Your Bishop absolutely should be a trusted spiritual advisor that can help support you and your children. That said, your Bishop is not your lawyer, is not your therapist, and unless he has been similarly betrayed lacks a deep understanding of the trauma you are facing. That doesn't mean he cant still support you and discreetly enlist the help of others. And dont forget, you still have agency to follow any counsel he gives, but there is no commandment for you to do so.

I agree with others that you need to confront this situation soon, but not before you consult with a lawyer about your rights in getting this kid out of your house, how to handle the complex living arrangements between your wife and in laws, any paternity related issues, and any other financial protections you need to get in place to protect yourself and your kids.

If you choose to talk to your Bishop, I think there are some timing considerations. If it was me, I would talk to him no more than 24 hours before I confront her, and have him on standby for afterwards to put into action any support you/your kids need.

In regard to serving your wife divorce papers at church, while it might feel good to think about blowing up her reputation, that would look very vindictive on your part, and could have negative impacts on you and your kids.

Also, once your ducks are in a row and you are ready to confront her, if you have parents or close family nearby, I suggest having them watch your kids for a few days. I think for all involved, the AP needs to be out of the house and away from your children during the confrontation. You dont need that wildcard in play, and if there are any firearms in the house that this kid could gain access to remove them.

Again, I'm sorry you are in this situation, and I pray that you and your kids get through this with as much love and support as possible

Brother there is a lot of good information here, take on board what feels right and mentally file the rest. The betrayal to you, the children, her and your parents as well as the age of the AP is way too much. Get the best legal advice about her responsibilities to the family and the caring for her parents who you are helping to care for. I really couldn’t see her AP taking on the financial responsibilities of children and extended family.
Again I feel there was grooming of this young person who became her AP.
Confrontation needs to happen on your terms.
One day at a time.

I don’t have issues with you talking to your Bishop and don’t know (or maybe even understand) what weight your religion might have on your life and world-views. But… I would strongly suggest that when you talk to your Bishop that you already know that whatever you are stating is truth. You want guidance with that truth, rather than guidance on what might be the truth.

Like – you could start the conversation with "Bishop – My wife is having an affair with OM" rather than "Bishop – I suspect…" or "I think…" or "could my wife be…"
Start with a statement and not a question. This is what’s happening – how do you suggest I respond?

Remember what I said earlier: It’s enough that YOU are convinced.

SI is a non-religious site but we have had numerous posters with strong religious beliefs. Both seeking advice and offering it. One thing I have noticed (and I stress that I don’t know if it will apply to you!) is if the religion or sect has strong views on infidelity or the sanctimony of the covenant of marriage the religiously based advice will be focused on that view. That can range from borderline stoning the adulterous woman to pressuring you to turn the other cheek. Keep in mind that whomever it is you are talking to is hopefully doing so with the best of intent, but that person too puts his pants on one leg at a time. My experience with clergy is that they are doing their best and with good intent, but they are neither all-knowledgeable nor all-powerful.

About exposing this at church/temple… Don’t see any benefit in that. I endorse exposing, but not public shaming.