SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all, back again.

I don't know what to say. Since July my life has been an absolute roller coaster with more downs than ups. So much has happened since D-Day and yet so little.

Some days are really good. We go on dates sometimes, watch movies, cuddle, have sex. Some days it's just really nice to be in each other's company and it makes me feel really happy and good.

Some days are bad. He's so stressed. Obviously about D-Day but a million other things going on in his life too. We have had so little luck finding him a therapist. I have done all I feel I can in helping him select one; I can't make the choice or send the email for him, but I have complied lists of options and drafts of emails to send. I don't know if he doesn't want to go or if he truly is struggling this much to make the appointment, but I have to be honest, I'm getting a little tired of asking him over and over to please just pick a therapist so he can start seeing just anybody at this point. He says he really wants to start seeing someone.

I don't think I'm happy in our relationship anymore. I don't think it brings me joy most of the time anymore. I am simply waiting for things to improve but I am scared because I don't know how long that means.

Due to all the stress in his life we barely see each other and when we do he's usually really irritable and it makes me sad. I get nervous before he comes home from work because I don't know if he's going to be happy to see me or so upset it's better for me to just leave.

I just feel like I'm walking on eggshells. I never know if what I'm doing is right or wrong until its already pissed him off. Sometimes being around him makes me feel really badly about myself.

I feel horribly saying any of this because I don't remember things being this bad before D-Day and, well, yeah. I think a lot of it is my fault. I know he's very stressed about other things but I think he doesn't want to admit how much D-Day is still affecting him.

I love him. I want to at least help him in the ways I can in this aftermath. I told him I wouldn't leave him after he found out (he was scared of me leaving him), but I also feel it's not fair to him to continue this relationship out of obligation. I don't know what to do. I don't want to call it quits yet but I am not doing well and this relationship is making me really stressed. I don't know how long is a reasonable amount of time to keep trying. I don't know.

It's not his fault he feels so unwell most of the time. I don't know how to even begin talking to him about this.

I don't think I'm happy in our relationship anymore. I don't think it brings me joy most of the time anymore.

Here's a big ol' 2x4 for you, swung hard with love, because you need one. (I'm also picturing Cher in Moonstruck slapping Nicolas Cage and yelling "SNAP OUT OF IT!")

You rocked his world and you expect your relationship to bring you joy right now? "BRING." Consider what you brought him and adjust your expectations. At two months out, I was still shivering under a blanket in 100 degree Texas summer heat because I was so traumatized. And consider that he's not supposed to "bring" you anything right now.

Can you deal with the pain that you caused? If not, get some IC and sort yourself out. Or leave. But you'd better stop blaming him for the state of your relationship. You did this.

If you want to save your relationship, my recommendation would be to schedule an MC appointment. It could be a gentle way to hold his hand and get him into counseling, and perhaps the MC can see him for IC, or can recommend someone.

I don't know how long is a reasonable amount of time to keep trying.

You just told on yourself regarding the amount of work that YOU'RE doing to heal your relationship. It's obvious that you haven't done much reading on affair recovery. The expected time frame for recovery after infidelity is ALL OVER this site. And it's 2-5 years before things will probably start to normalize.

You have lots of work to do. Better get crackin'.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 3:44 PM, Monday, October 16th]

Okay, you're right, I shouldn't expect joy right now. I'm more upset about the fact that I am trying to keep myself out of going inpatient for the second time since D-Day and my mental health is only getting worse and my relationship is one of my biggest stressors and I'm beginning to feel it is an obligation. Which I have to be honest, I feel isn't fair to either of us.

I've seen the 2-5 year statistic many times and I am mostly concerned because everything that mentions that mentions that it isn't all terrible all the time and I feel as though our relationship is swinging wildly towards being bad for both of us.

I'm sorry I worded my post in a way that makes it seem as though I want an easy way out, I just want to stop wanting to die and my relationship is affecting that.

Okay, first: Big hugs.

I'm more upset about the fact that I am trying to keep myself out of going inpatient for the second time since D-Day and my mental health is only getting worse and my relationship is one of my biggest stressors and I'm beginning to feel it is an obligation. Which I have to be honest, I feel isn't fair to either of us.

Relationships are obligations, full of ups and downs. I mean, really, what else are they but an obligation to one another to bring our best self to the table? Our best may vary according to what's going on in our lives, but really, that's what a relationship is. You didn't bring your best self to this relationship and now your partner is struggling badly.

I've seen the 2-5 year statistic many times and I am mostly concerned because everything that mentions that mentions that it isn't all terrible all the time and I feel as though our relationship is swinging wildly towards being bad for both of us.

You're contradicting yourself:

Some days are really good. We go on dates sometimes, watch movies, cuddle, have sex. Some days it's just really nice to be in each other's company and it makes me feel really happy and good.

The way your post reads, you're expecting other people and outside factors to "make" you feel good, and you want to feel good all the time. Infidelity recovery doesn't work that way. It's tough. It takes a boatload of empathy and patience and introspection. And time. It takes lots of time.

You may not be equipped to be in a relationship right now. If your mental health is such that you think you might need inpatient treatment, maybe it's best that you separate for a bit? What do you think?

Redwood - I want you to know this is coming from a place of deep empathy. Your story is heartbreaking. Past abuse and what we do to make it through it is so often self destructive.. We can do the most destructive and humiliating things to cope and then somehow find ourselves either defending those behaviors or using them to multiply our own shame around them. It’s isolating and destructive.
Right now, take stock of what you have in front of you right now; your most painful shit is almost out in the open, you want to free yourself from it, and your partner is still there.
You’re only likely to get this chance just this once. Don’t miss it.

I don't think I'm happy in our relationship anymore. I don't think it brings me joy most of the time anymore. I am simply waiting for things to improve but I am scared because I don't know how long that means.

How long to you want it to take? You’re at a crossroads where you can move forward to healing or slide back to self sabotage. You’re still in a protective mode and you’re expecting your partner to heal you - despite the fact that you are not willing to be ready to heal.
Your private text messages to these men are still secret - so you aren’t even on the starting block for individual therapy. Call it what you want, but this also means you’re still lying to him. You might say it’s to protect him - but it’s to protect you. He doesn’t NEED protection from the truth.
You are the center of attention in your relationship - which is turned upside down by your actions - but you’re waiting for him to pick a therapist and start working on his dysfunction?
To what end? So he can forgive you for something you haven’t even allowed him to fully be aware of?
You’re waiting for couples counseling? Why wait?
I know this is scary - but there’s only one way forward in which both of you are able to heal. Schedule a couple’ counselor. Tell him you need him to come because you’re going to tell him EVERYTHING and then do that. Everything. Be AUTHENTIC and get it all out for the first time in your life. Then tell him you want to fix it and cry your eyes out. Tell him you hope he can stay - but that you’re going to fix yourself even if he doesn’t. Tell him you understand if he hates you, but that you hope you can show him you can do better and be better. Tell him you love him and you’re sorry - but stop the bs of minimizing and deflecting and avoiding. It’s a dead-end shortcut to nowhere. You have to work through it eventually - and so does he. Face it while you’re so close to this opportunity.
You are expending great energy to avoid what you envision to be the worst possible outcome. Where you are now is just as bad, and your avoidance is just delaying the inevitable.

Hi Redwood,

Welcome to SI. I have seen a few of your posts but this is my first time responding. For reference I'm a BS that is 6+ years out and happily reconciled.

I just feel like I'm walking on eggshells.

"WalkingOnEggshelz" is literally the username of one of this site's founders. What you are experiencing is normal. If you DIDN't feel like your relationship was a roller-coaster at the moment, I'd be concerned. The fact that he is having good days as well as bad days, is actually a really good sign. Stop being so reactive to the peaks and valleys. One good day does not mean that the problem is gone, just like one bad day does not mean that the relationship is doomed. YOur reactivity is not helping anyone and may be exacerbating the issue.

My husband did this to some degree at the outset (before I expressed how damaging it was and he shut it down). He would feel heartened by "a good stretch" and then become discouraged when I would trigger again. I hated it. What I wanted and NEEDED from him at that time, was for him to be steady and stable and reassuring to me. I had valid reasons to doubt the relationship during that time, and so what I needed from him during the moments of despair were for him to patiently make space for my moodswings. What I needed was for him to reassure me that there was nothing I could throw at him during that time that would make him second guess his decision to want to be with me. When he would react negatively to my triggers and question whether things would EVER GET BETTER, it compounded my feelings of fear about the relationship. It made me feel like our survival as a couple was premised on me NOT responding or reacting to a trigger I had no choice in creating. This was antithetical to healing for me.

I understand your desire to CRAVE reassurance from him in this moment when your relationship is so unstable, but you must know that a) you are not entitled to it right now; and b) he is not in place right now to meaningfully give it to you.

I don't think I'm happy in our relationship anymore. I don't think it brings me joy most of the time anymore. I am simply waiting for things to improve but I am scared because I don't know how long that means.

This concerns me. You are only a few months into this. You indicate that you are aware that 2-5 years is a normal timeframe for healing but it's only a few months in and you seem impatient already. R is a lot of work, and is not for the faint hearted. If you are not 100% all in on this, it's not going to work. If you are feeling ambivalent right now, the kind thing to do right now would be to get out of this now rather than put him through months or years of torture, just to break his heart again. If you are not willing to grind it out and be there for him during the worst period of his life, without expecting anything in return, then you are not cut out for R (and to be honest, you are probably not cut out for marriage either). Your comments suggest an implied belief on your part that your relationship should bring you joy and make you happy at all times, and I want to challenge that belief - because I wonder if this belief is part of the reason you got into your A in the first place. A lot of time, affairs happen because the Wayward partner is feeling unhappy and blames that unhappiness on their partner. They get a rush of good feelings/dopamine when a colleague flirts with them or when an ex reaches out, and they mistake that feeling which is 'missing' in their relationship with love/happiness. Because of their unhappiness, the A feels like an oasis in the desert to someone so starved of good feelings. As you've discovered however that feeling is fleeting and it doesn't actually make you happy (it just masks unhappiness). If you rely on other to make you happy, you will never truly be happy. It's a cliche but true happiness comes from within. Real mature relationships have ups and downs. Actual love is not a feeling, but a conscious and concerted act.

All this said, affair or not, you are not obligated to stay in the relationship. You are not doing him any favours by sticking around if you do not wish to be with him.

The reason I haven't gone to couples counseling is because he refuses to go. I have asked him so many times its become a touchy subject.

We spent the day looking at mental health treatment options for him. Hopefully he gets into some sort of more intensive program soon. I might have to go back inpatient.

Sorry it was just a really awful, rough morning and I don't think my original post was a good one nor did it capture our situation well.

I think we both need more intensive mental health treatment. Hopefully I am more level headed once I am not so worried about our immediate safety.

Redwood, I hope you both find the help that you need.

Emergent, that was a terrific post.

What I needed was for him to reassure me that there was nothing I could throw at him during that time that would make him second guess his decision to want to be with me.

Spot on. I think most BSs experience a tremendous amount of insecurity right after DDay. We're already scared that our WS is going to leave us for the AP, and then some of us feel like we have to temper our feelings so that we don't drive them away. I'm still exploring that in IC, all these years later. It's not easy to R.

Redwood - like sacredsoul and emergent point out, the feeling of insecurity and worrying if the next thing you say makes things better or worse is almost constant for a BS when working through infidelity. You’re describing the same thing from the WS perspective. Your fear and insecurity is valid, too. There’s your common ground, but only you can make your journey together authentic.

Hi there. I didn't see a Stop Sign so I'll chime in. Keep in mind I am the BS of a LTA. But this is the Wayward Forum so I'm not allowed to swing a 2x4. So please keep reading.

I'm the survivor of a total 4.5 year LTA (3 before I knew and 1.5 they went underground). My DDay 1 was in 2017. I've BTDT so to speak.

For the first 4-6 months after DDay I barely knew my name. I was on autopilot. I knew I needed help but was resentful of having to get it. I was trying to hold down a job, household, unruly out of control teen (who discovered and informed of the LTA) and now this. It was a few more months before I went to an IC - and again was resentful of having to do so. I was too raw for anything to sink in. Years later I went to IC again and found it a huge help. The lens of time is a beautiful thing in many ways.

In the beginning shortly after DDay 1, WH would say things like he didn't see it helping, and if I wasn't better he should really just leave - and was questioning our relationship all together. I lost it there. And told him if he wanted out - there was the door. But don't be a coward and turn it on me. I also said he had [then] 3 years to F things up and I've [at the time] barely 3 months to process the unthinkable. Trust me - it wasn't spoken that clear and had quite a few expletives. But there it was all laid out. Stay or go - but don't turn it on me.

There was a lot of fits and starts - there was a lot of HB [hysterical bonding]. Good days and bad. Good moments that could turn on a dime and then back again. There was a roller coaster of emotion I never want to ride again.

I know you are new here as well. I'll be gentle here. But I hear a lot of "I" in your post/responses. I hear little of your BH and when I do, I get frustration that he's "not over it" yet and what he's "not doing to help himself". Gently - this is the equivalent of you stabbing him full of holes and getting mad at him for bleeding.

He needs time. Lots of it. He needs patience and understanding. He needs openness, honesty and transparency. And right now he doesn't know how to sort any of that out let alone put it in words. If you were to ask him - all he'd probably be able to aciculate is "I need this not to have happened"

I will also gently say - withholding any information is not protecting him from anything. It is further hurting him - he just hasn't felt the cut yet. But withholding information is making things worse. He needs the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You can't heal a wound properly if you don't know what caused it. It will hurt and probably hurt worse than knowing it all up front. But truth comes out and must be dealt with. Even the unpleasant truth. No one deserves to live a lie. I will also gently say - he is probably aware that there is more to the story. And knows something is missing. He may not be able to put it in words [at least civil ones right now]. But deep down, he knows. OR at least suspects.

suddenlyisee said this and it resonates -

I know this is scary - but there’s only one way forward in which both of you are able to heal. Schedule a couple’ counselor. Tell him you need him to come because you’re going to tell him EVERYTHING and then do that. Everything. Be AUTHENTIC and get it all out for the first time in your life. Then tell him you want to fix it and cry your eyes out. Tell him you hope he can stay - but that you’re going to fix yourself even if he doesn’t. Tell him you understand if he hates you, but that you hope you can show him you can do better and be better. Tell him you love him and you’re sorry - but stop the bs of minimizing and deflecting and avoiding. It’s a dead-end shortcut to nowhere. You have to work through it eventually - and so does he. Face it while you’re so close to this opportunity.

You say:

I'm sorry I worded my post in a way that makes it seem as though I want an easy way out, I just want to stop wanting to die and my relationship is affecting that.

Please - know you are worth living for. I know your world and relationship are in a major upheaval but please - do not consider your demise a way out. Apologies if I am reading too much into this but I'd rather that than saying nothing.

I can say I'm 6 years from DDAy1, 4.5 years from DDays 2/3 and 2.5 years from where we had to send LTAP a cease and desist for stalking/cyberstalking/trying to duplicate our lives. I can say WH and I are in a good place. I will probably always think of is as Reconciling as opposed to Reconciled. But I can say we just celebrated 30 years together and are looking forward to our future years. I can tell you I put in a LOT of hard work I resented because my world was blown up but can also tell you I was worth it.

D or R - it isn't easy. For BS and WS alike [I've learned that on my years on SI]. The healing each must do is very hard. And involved a lot of work.

Please keep coming here and posting. You will get a lot of collective wisdom.

I'm sorry I worded my post in a way that makes it seem as though I want an easy way out, I just want to stop wanting to die and my relationship is affecting that.

Hi Redwood,

I missed this when I posted my initial response. Please please please make sure you are taking care of yourself right now. If you are experiencing suicidal ideation, and it sounds like you are, please speak with your doctor or therapist and the people around you that love you. If you feel like those people are unavailable to you right now, please reach out to a crisis hotline. You are a person worthy of love and respect and you matter. The way you are feeling right now is not permanent.

Redwood, I’m a BS and the first thing I want to say is I respect your decision to step up and try to heal the damage you’ve caused. I don’t know for sure what you can do, all I can do is give you my background for perspective. I’ve read a lot in the BS questions to WS thread and that is where I’ve learned the most of what my wife may be/have been dealing with. Reading those posts gave me empathy for what she was dealing with and so I could support her because I love her. Now, my side. Her affair destroyed me. It destroyed my self worth, she was willing to destroy everything we worked so hard to build, our family, everything. Then after I found out, she didn’t want to do what was necessary to heal the damage. She really doesn’t want to even think about it because it makes her feel bad. This is a continuation of self worth destruction as I am apparently not worth the effort to try and heal, or she is still just too selfish to think of anyone other than herself. In the first 2 months after D Day I almost ended my life twice. It was the absolute most destructive thing I’ve ever experienced. I’m 2-1/2 years from D day and I’m currently averaging 3-4 hours of sleep per night. I have told her things that I need from her. Primary I’ve asked that she find out/determine what it was inside her that allowed her to break her bond with me, what was wrong with her that allowed her to do that. And I need to know from her that I am safe from future pain, I need to hear/see some kind of action that reassured me that this won’t happen again. She simply tells me that she never wants to hurt me again, but by not providing what I need from her, she’s still twisting the knife in my back. I can tell you right now, that when I see, or read about an accident when a mother or young individual gets seriously injured or has their life taken from them, I ask "why not me". I’d rather take their place as I just want the hurt to stop. Fortunately for me, I have several great friends, two great boys, and a wonderful group of sisters, so that is what drives me to continue moving forward. Yea, they say 2-5 years but at this pace it feels like the hurt will continue for life. If she would only show true remorse and be there for me in the tough times. You can’t imagine how great a good solid, loving hug feels when you can tell it really means something. All I can tell you from my perspective is how much it would mean to me if my wife would show how truly sorry she was for crushing me and show me how she is changing from a cheater to someone who can be trusted moving forward.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 9:42 PM, Tuesday, October 17th]

Hi redwood, I'm going to highlight a couple of things that stood out to me that I think are worthy of additional attention and scrutiny.

We have had so little luck finding him a therapist. I have done all I feel I can in helping him select one; I can't make the choice or send the email for him, but I have complied lists of options and drafts of emails to send. I don't know if he doesn't want to go or if he truly is struggling this much to make the appointment, but I have to be honest, I'm getting a little tired of asking him over and over to please just pick a therapist so he can start seeing just anybody at this point.

I quoted this paragraph because I think it is worth pointing out a few things here:
1. I've done your drug, as I've been the WH who wanted to show my BW that I would crawl across broken glass and hot coals to save my marriage. I think your heart is in the right place on this one and I wanted to get that out of the way, because I think you are making mistakes, but with the best of intentions in mind.

2. In the early days, weeks, months, I wanted nothing more than to see my wife no longer in the state she was (yeah, she was in an active PA at the time, which I didn't know about, that kind of was a huge influence there) and I did exactly what you are doing, trying to find a way to help her. I got myself into IC and it was really helpful for me and I became a therapy-evangelist almost overnight. I did exactly what you did, went to our health insurance plan and found contact information for providers in our area and sent all of them to my wife. In retrospect, I'm not sure what, if any good, it did to spend my efforts there, because my wife would go to IC months later and it would be someone she selected on her own after I showed her how to use the find a provider functionality on our insurance website. My advice, stop trying to find him a therapist and nudge him towards seeing someone. Save the research and information you have handy and if he does want it, you can share it with him again at a later date. Which brings me to my next point.

He says he really wants to start seeing someone.

3. Ask yourself this about this sentence, "does he really want to see someone or does he want you off his back about it?" I know that when I want something or to do something, I go and do it. I mean, when I want or need to see the doctor, I know that I'm fully capable of calling his office and getting myself an appointment setup. Same goes for getting the oil changed on my car, I am a fully capable adult when it comes to managing my own life and my wants and needs, including for something like therapy. He simply may not be ready or willing to talk about this with someone right now. I am speculating, but it may be that you are pressuring him to go to therapy, again, my previous comment, your heart is in the right place, your BH is hurting, confused, a total mess and you know he needs help, just as if he were dealing with a physical ailment, you know in your mind that he needs help, but you cannot force him to go to the doctor anymore than you can force him to a therapist, so stop trying. Put the topic on the parking lot, let him know that he can pick it up back up and ask you for help with the therapist later if she so chooses. He will see a therapist on his own timeline and you cannot force it, as much as you would like to speed things up, everyone's healing and recovery happens at their pace and so it's best to let go of the outcome.

I know that when I want something or to do something, I go and do it.

Due to conditions like ADHD, some of us have trouble making ourselves do things, especially when under extreme stress, even though the task may be simple and we want/need to do them. Seriously, this is the main focus of my IC right now: How do I make myself do the things that I want to do? If one piece of the task seems overwhelming or confusing, I tend to shut the whole thing down. And finding an IC isn't always easy. My H found one, and I piggybacked on him and started seeing a different therapist in the same practice. My car tags have been out since February and I just got my car inspected last week, RIGHT after counseling. I was riding the high. lol I'm not inept; I handle my family's finances in a timely manner and keep my household running pretty smoothly, but some things just stymie me. So I think it might be too simplistic to say that if he wanted to see an IC, he'd do it.

Bringing Mr Redwood to MC and then having the MC recommend an IC could be helpful, except that it seems that he's refusing to go to MC, too.

I've read all your posts, and this is what jumps out at me. The first one is that you're talking about feeling "joy" and I am wondering if what you are really feeling is a sense of withdrawal from the dopamine and feel good hormones you were getting from the online behavior.

It sounds like you have an abusive history, and were getting some kind of benefit/ joy from that behavior and it came to an abrupt stop. On top of that, you are also having to deal with guilt shame and frankly the trauma of how much you have hurt your BH who you clearly love.

So here's some suggestions.

Firstly, I'd say work really hard on trying to understand what you were getting from that behavior, what need in you that it was meeting, why, and what you can do to meet those needs in other ways. This really, is the greatest gift you can give to both yourself and your BH.

Secondly, do a bit of work around the guilt and shame you are feeling. There's amazing writing from WS's on here in the historical posts - but abuse survivors and addicts tend to have shame already. So now you are topped up with a huge dose of that.

I am a BS. And I can tell you now, you are not a terrible person. A terrible person would not be here writing and trying. They would not care enough to try. You are a flawed person like everyone else and you have hurt yourself and your BH. It is not irredeemable, it is not unfixable.

Five years from now, you can be a position where you can say "I used to be a mess. I reacted to past abuse by seeking out external validation and unhealthy thrills and I really wasn't loving myself. Now I have learned to love myself and create joy in my life in ways I am proud of"

And honestly, this is the greatest gift you can give to yourself and your BH. You are both deserving of healing.

I wouldn't pressure him right now. He is in shock. If he's not feeling okay mentally, let him do things in his own time. You can, in the meantime do the healing work yourself. This will encourage him to join you.

The main thing here is that your posts show someone who really loves their spouse. Please don't let your lack of love for yourself cause you to feel incapable of what's ahead. You are more than capable.

Start with you.

He will follow.

This sounds like a marriage worth saving and you sound like two people who deserve healing.

At the end of this you might actually find you are glad it all happened. it sounded like you were carrying a lot of pain around with you, and it might be a great opportunity to learn how to let it go.