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Well, it happened. Last night my wife asked if I had anything I needed to talk about, and just so happens I wanted to discuss with her about her treating me shitty last Friday when we were getting ready to leave for home from a vacation last week to her sisters house. We wanted to get out of there by 7 am and while I, my SIL and her husband were all up by 6 am, she didn’t get up until around 6:30. While her sister was cooking some eggs for breakfast, my wife yelled down the steps "Get your ass up here and pack your shit!" Her sister looked at me in disbelief while I yelled back "chill out". I stayed down, she eventually came downstairs with her back and gave me the look of death. I then ate my breakfast, went upstairs, packed my bag, stripped the bed, came down and had the car fully loaded before 7 am. I brought this up last night and told her never to speak to me in that tone again. I then proceeded to tell her how her lack of self work makes me "feel" like I’m not important enough. That I’ve felt this way for some time. I told her that I had browsed a dating site a few times to establish options as I have been feeling like we aren’t going to make it. She told me she read an article that said if you don’t think counseling will do you any good then there’s no point in going. I proceeded to tell her that if what she is currently doing is the best she’s got, then we may as well start the process of splitting up.

Now, today she texted me that she has started the process of counseling. I’m not holding my breath that she will follow through or that she’ll give it a fair shot, but hopefully a therapist can get her to open up about her past and make some sort of progress. Again, not holding my breath, it has been 3-1/2 years.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 9:38 PM, Wednesday, August 14th]

How do you feel?

I then proceeded to tell her how her lack of self work makes me "feel" like I’m not important enough. That I’ve felt this way for some time.

Yep! I told my WW I felt like "I didn’t matter" while she was cheating. And now her inability to "do the work" now makes me feel like "I (and the marriage) don’t matter now".

We "had the talk" a while back. I’m watching, waiting and working on "what happens if she doesn’t follow through this time". Hope for the best, plan for the worst. You’ve done your part. The rest is on her….

Hiking out, I feel like I’ve finally taken control of my life and my path forward. It’s almost like a weight has lifted to an extent.

ImaChump, I think we are in the same boat and on the same page. I don’t carry the hope of success like I did in the early stages, but honestly, I’m fine with whatever road I wind up taking.

Then you are in the best position that you have been in a very long time! I know there is a lot still to go through but with this mindset, you will improve your situation one way or another. Happy for you on that.

Agree with hikingout (man that woman is hard to disagree with ).

Well done for asserting yourself and your needs and rights. It’s scary, it’s vulnerable, but it’s brave and it’s necessary. I’m happy for you and your new found mindset.

I felt the same as HOut:

Then you are in the best position that you have been in a very long time! I know there is a lot still to go through but with this mindset, you will improve your situation one way or another. Happy for you on that.

It really is the best you can do on that issue. Now, what are you going to do for you? Let yourself have a moment to enjoy the weight being lifted off - when that first happens...I recall it so well. I remember taking myself out to dinner and having a glass of wine and just taking a second to feel okay with being me. It was long overdue.

I wanted to discuss with her about her treating me shitty last Friday when we were getting ready to leave for home from a vacation last week to her sisters house. We wanted to get out of there by 7 am and while I, my SIL and her husband were all up by 6 am, she didn’t get up until around 6:30. While her sister was cooking some eggs for breakfast, my wife yelled down the steps "Get your ass up here and pack your shit!" Her sister looked at me in disbelief while I yelled back "chill out".

If this is how she treats you in front of family, how does she treat you when it's just the two of you alone? I can only imagine. Is it common that she yells at you in such a disrespectful manner? You know your wife best and maybe she just woke up on the wrong side of the bed but is this a person you really want to fight for? A cheater that at times, in front of others, treats you like shit?

With that brief insight into your life (and admittedly, speculating and extrapolating into how bad it is for you at home) I am going to offer some further advice. While she may have taken some baby-steps to start looking into therapy, don't let up now. I would recommend continuing to detach from your WW. You previously posted that you have a flaw in that you don't stand up for yourself. Hopefully, you've realized by honestly telling your WW that you started browsing dating sites and that you should start the process of splitting up (i.e. standing up for yourself), has brought some results. Keep it up. See how she acts next week while being detached, no serious talks all week that are initiated by you.

Now, what I'm going to post next, may seem extreme and vindictive but you've been in hell for 3+ years... also I'm a big believer that unpredictability is the enemy of infidelity, while routine is an ally. You've probably been living your life in a "standard" routine for years... time to shake that up.

Depending on your calendar, on Thursday, tell your wife you're going out on Friday... and nothing else. Come home on Friday, clean up from work, get dressed up nice, but not too nice (don't wear a suit), put on some cologne and head out. Leave your phone at home on the kitchen counter and available for your wife to go through. If she starts asking questions, just say you're going out and she's free to look through your phone (there's nothing in the phone to find) and leave the house. You don't want your wife to follow you, to track you by your phone, or blow up your phone with calls/texts all night. You live in a small town so go to another town, or better yet, hopefully you live near a big city.. go there. Have sufficient cash on hand. Go out to eat at a new restaurant or maybe go see a movie you're interested in or hell, go bowling or a bookstore, whatever. Pay by cash so she can't track by bank account or credit card website. Keep the receipts to show you only bought 1 meal, 1 movie ticket etc... for later (maybe days later.) Take some time for yourself, and enjoy yourself.... and let your wife sit and stew. When you get back (hopefully around midnight or later) go straight to bed. Do not let her talk to you, if she insists tell her you've had 3 and half years to talk and she didn't want too, why start now? And nothing more, go to sleep.

The next day, if she still wants to talk (and I'd bet a month's salary that oh, she's going to be bouncing up and down wanting to talk) this is where you can use her exact phrase that has eaten at you for years.... just simply tell her that "whatever I did last night wasn't meant to hurt you (wife)" Let her feel how that phrase sounds like from the other side. Then get out of the house... go into work, go play 36 holes of golf, just get out for the day. If the hysterics start that night, or the following days... that's when you whip out the receipts and show your wife you were by yourself for the entire night. Tell her you wanted to experience what it would be like if you divorced and had to live on your own. Maybe throw in a remark "and it wasn't that bad."

It sounds like your son just got engaged... your WW needs a reality-check that you and her may be attending his wedding with different partners, if any. I'm sure your WW hasn't even thought that there would be a chance that she wouldn't be going to his wedding without you. She might need to start thinking about that.

While the above may seem extreme, childish, vindictive, manipulative and petty, it really isn't... you're taking a night off for yourself and that's it. You can't help what your wife is going to think. She's backed herself into this corner in her marriage. She needs to get herself out of it.

I think I have mentioned this to you before about when your wife treats you badly, which sadly seems to be often, you don’t wait to reprimand. Just like a two year old you address the issue immediately. If you kid try’s to touch a hot stove you don’t wait a few hours to explain this can’t be done. You do it right away. She constantly acts like a petulant child.

You should have told her In front of your SIL and her husband that if she talks to you like that again she can Uber home.

You get treated the way you expect to be treated and you at this point expect to be treated badly. She especially owes you an apology for humiliating you in front of the relatives.

Nuke, I appreciate the thoughts, but a while ago, what you describe would have been enticing to me. Now however, since I’ve been in intense therapy for the last 8 months, I know now who and what I am. I’m a solid man, I have great traits and therefore I’m the prize in this relationship. I don’t play games anymore. I have matured in this relationship so I won’t play games. From here out you get me at face value. While doing something somewhat spiteful/devious/childish may feel good, it would go against who I am now. No, I’d rather be a stand up person who when you see me you know exactly what is in front of you. In her defense, she doesn’t talk to me like that often at all. I really don’t think she even sees it as cruel. We did have another talk two days ago and the conversation was a lot different than any previous talk. She actually was able to hear what I was saying and if I pointed out something she said, rather than get defensive, she would actually try to understand what I was saying from my point of view. This is not the personality flip I’d like to see, but it’s a start. I believe she now realizes how serious I am about her doing the work. She is now getting scared about losing me, and I can see it, but I told her the path forward for us is to keep working on herself. If she can’t show me that she can be a safe partner for me then we can be done. Her future with me is in her control, she is now going to have to get out of her comfort zone and work for it.

Waitedwaytooling, as I mentioned above, she doesn’t talk to me like that very often at all. It is childish but my IC thinks she’s dealing with childhood trauma that’s never been dealt with and this has her handling coping with difficult issues like a 10 year old. I understand that now and to work with her I have to work inside those confines. You can’t argue with a child and expect results. As for the talking to me like she did at my SIL house, I did tell her that if she ever speaks to me like that again in front of anyone, she would get a verbal response in front of whoever is there.

Again I want to thank all of you for your support.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 10:59 AM, Sunday, August 18th]

since I’ve been in intense therapy for the last 8 months, I know now who and what I am. I’m a solid man, I have great traits and therefore I’m the prize in this relationship. I don’t play games anymore. I have matured in this relationship so I won’t play games. From here out you get me at face value. While doing something somewhat spiteful/devious/childish may feel good, it would go against who I am now.

Coping... while not obviously knowing what has gone on in your life for the past 20 years, I doubt that your therapy for the past 8 months has 'changed' who you were to who you are 'now.' You [most likely] have always been a decent man and a nice guy. Sure, therapy may have made you gain some clarity on the subject and you now realize that you are indeed the prize. But you're the one that has remained faithful to your wife all these years. You have consistently worked hard, sacrificed and provided for your wife and family. I have recently read about a term that some are using to describe husbands like you (and I fall under the same umbrella, as well) ... the "Golden Retriever Husband" (isn't that a kick to the nads?) How many betrayeds (both men and women here) fall under that category? Great, a husband that is loyal, hard-working, blindly trusting and forever loving and in return you get treated like this by your wife.

Ok, you may have had some faults in how you communicate with those close to you... guess what, you're a man, welcome to the club, we ought to have t-shirts that read "I don't talk about feelings." How many books have been written on this subject in the past several decades? Still the issue persists. This in no way allows a spouse to go outside the marriage for any reason.

Just a couple of months ago, in June, you posted:

My wife, ..., has not done the work. She has resisted therapy as she believes there is nothing wrong with her. She’s still blaming the marriage. I have come to accept that emotionally, I’ll likely never get what I need from her but I know I can get my emotional needs met elsewhere.

And this is over 3 years from D-Day? So, she is starting to take baby-steps... keep her feet to the fire. It's ok to be selfish at times. Going out for a night by yourself does not constitute a "game." Be an open book to your wife, tell her you're going out by yourself, to see what being single is like after, what? 20 years of marriage? Inform her there is no one else, you're not going to a bar/club/whatever to hookup or on a date with anyone. Just going out to dinner/movie by yourself.
Leave her with your phone. I advised you to throw the phrase "never meant to hurt her" that she used against you, to better help with your feelings of injustice. Surely you've felt the injustice of the situation, right? Anything (within reason and staying true to your vows) that can help with those feelings should be taken since it's such a shit sandwich that you're trying to force down.

Good luck, stay strong and try to shed the 'good boy' golden retriever moniker, at least at times... get a bit of junk yard dog in you. It will help.