SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She has a new found interest in how I'm doing but frankly, when she calls and askes "how are you this morning, still emotional?"

Prior to my world collapsing, we were in the process of changing investment advisors opting for two different firms for a 1 year test (or so I thought). In that light, some of the work is already done but it gives me pause as to how long she been planning?

In an effort to extend an olive branch I suppose, she invited me to a ballroom dancing mixer near our beach condo. I had never been there prior but it was clear that she was a regular. If there was a silver lining, at least there was any apparent attention being paid by any of the men in the crowd but I did find it unsettling that just about every woman who approached us said "oh, you brought your husband tonight". I had never been to this ballroom and didn't know a single one of these women.

Wow, I see a picture in the following quotes from your comments. I think you do as well.

That ballroom dancing comment are the females (the women who made the comments) telling you something about your wife. First the women do not like her, second they are telling you she is quite the cheater. Think about the ramifications of it, then extrapolate what it means to suddenly bring you there (I can not even fully wrap my head around what her intentions were). Perhaps one of the women here could explain it to the both of us.

Protect yourself, lawyers bring them in, the time is now. Whatever you choose do not get caught unaware that she has been planning something and probably still is. I was caught surprise, I survived it, but not without its share of negativity.

Also secure the assets even ones not easily liquidated. It feels like to me she is playing for time, there must be reason for that action.

Your ww actually said you were worthy of her love,because you dug up crap about her boyfriend?

Your ww thinks she's the prize. You should knock her off that pedestal, sooner than later.

She basically told you you're Plan B.

I want to start by hoping everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving and that you all have something to be thankful for. I am thankful for a number of things, not the least of which is the support and insights from all of you.

My WW finally agreed to get tested for STD's. It was a line in the sand (as you all have stated). We discussed her reluctance to get tested and I'm not sure the answer moved the ball down the field (pardon the sports metaphor). The affair had been going on long enough that she felt that if there "was a problem" it would have manifested itself. Honestly, I was speechless.

I really don't know what's next?

She’s decided "you’re worthy of her love"?!?

That’s like nails on a chalkboard to me.

The question you must ponder is if she is worthy of your love.

We have both been reading "The Courage to Stay" which has helped frame some of the conversations I've had with my WW. Dr. K says that if you you both want to repair the relationship - you will. That is the operative question isn't it?

"Is she worth my love"? Believe me, I have pondered that question. Do I want to reconcile because I don't want to admit failure? In the near term I am working diligently towards reconciliation.

That said, we've done most of what a couple of divorce lawyers would have done to our assets. Bank accounts, investments, property and monthly bills have all split. We have separate financial advisors (different firms as well), she wants me on the zoom calls with her advisor and seeks my advice on the recommendations they make. Quite honestly, I'm numb after these exchanges. Even if we are able to reconcile, our finances will never again be "joint" and that's a casualty of this sorted affair that cuts me deeply.

Dr. K says that if you you both want to repair the relationship - you will.

I agree with that wholeheartedly - if you both want R enough to do the necessary work.

Frankly, I think the BH has the easy part - just process the grief, fear, anger, shame out of your body.

The difficult part for BSes is that usually, some resistance almost always pops up. It's usually very difficult work to resolve the resistances, and you have to resolve them in order to process your pain from being betrayed.

The WS needs to process their own pain out of their body, and they have to resolve their resistances, and they have to change from cheater to good partner. IMO, that change takes all the work BSes need to do and more. Remorse is like karma coming to get you while you're still in this life and while you know it'll get you in your next one, too.

Many WSes just can't or won't bring themselves to do the work necessary to R. Many BSes, too....

Do I want to reconcile because I don't want to admit failure?

TL;DR - Don't choose R unless everything you perceive tells you your WS is a good candidate for R. Also, don't choose R unless you want to spend the rest of your life with your WS. You may choose to stay together for practical reasons, but that's not R - that's just practical.

One can 'work on the M' and test the WS to find out if the WS is a good candidate for R, but I think it's best not to commit to R until you know the BS is a good candidate.

One always, IMO, has healthy and unhealthy reasons for doing pretty much anything. IMO, it's normal and healthy to know that life is risky and to fear bad or even unexpected outcomes. But even though something like fear may be part of the decision to R, my reco is not to choose R unless you see R as a way of making a joyful life.

Same with D. D is the better choice if you no longer want to spend the rest of your life with your WS. It's the better choice if your WS is not a good candidate for R or if your WS simply won't do the necessary work, even if it took years to figure those things out.

But D is a worse choice if it's chosen as a way of avoiding the work of healing. No matter what your resolution is, IMO BSes who don't do their healing work doom themselves to a life of more pain and less joy than they can get.

My WS finally got tested for STD's. I was tested over a month ago and have been insisting she be tested ever since. She had taken the position that because the affair had been going on so long, she had no symptoms and the fact that I was tested and would have said something then there was no need. She had asked to see my test results, I told her I would share my results when she had hers. Fortunately, neither of us have a "souvenir" from this affair.

While I probably shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, I was hoping for "I hope this puts your mind at ease" and not an "Ok, I did it" attitude from my WS. She went full on vegan a year ago (which should have been my first warning sign - so was her love interest). She reads every label, listens to every pod cast on "clean" food, gets lab tested for all sorts of "levels" in her blood but when it came to something which could alter both our lives forever - she saw no need?

I was driving to lunch with a good friend of mine last week and out of the blue he says that if a wife strayed he could see forgiving her and put it behind him if it was just a one night stand. If she had really fallen in love then he would have a more difficult time getting past the affair. I was speechless! Our wives and his daughter are good friends and have traveled on a number of "girls" only trips together. I didn't ask any questions and changed the topic. I brought this conversation up to my WS asking (again) who knew she was having an affair. She assured me that the only person she had discussed this with was her sister. My WS said "I only told her we were spending time apart". After a little more time and further questioning she admitted that they had discussed the affair, request for a divorce, my reaction and all the actions I took after I found out. I would later find out after additional questioning that the entire group of women who had gone on a recent cruise to Portugal with her were also aware she was having an affair. That explains why 5 women in a car have nothing to say during the one hour ride home from the airport, I had dismissed it as "they are just tired from the flight".

It took me a few days to ask my friend why he brought up the topic of a wife who strayed? Was there something I needed to know? He immediately apologized for giving me the impression that he was taking about my WS (ironic) but he was talking about his nephew.

My WS has stated many times "I will answer any question you have". While she has never said "I'm not answering that", she clearly has truncated her answers, omitted details that she clearly would have remembered and in the case of "who knows", flat out lied to me. I have been very careful about what I ask, I know it's painful for both of us and I don't want to come across as interrogating her. The reality is that I asked very few questions that I didn't already know the answer to (decades as a commercial pilot examiner taught me that). When I expand upon one of her "half answers" she falls back on "I'll answer any question you ask". At this point I end the conversation as we're probably doing more harm than good.

Thank you all for letting me vent.

I think you are generally doing well for being so early on.

One thing you'll need to get through your head is that you need to have some conflict with her. This isn't something you can have a calm and rational conversation over and make it to the other side.

She needs to know you are upset. You almost need to have setbacks to move forward. I know that sounds unintuitive, but if she feels like you are OK with how she is proceeding, that is how she will proceed.

I take your point about letting my WW know that I'm genuinely upset about the A. I told her I wanted a written timeline for the A as there have too many inconsistencies in her version of events being attributed to "I really can't remember every detail. I told her I wanted her to write a letter to her AP explaining why the A is over (I am the one who reached out and told him I was aware of what they had been up to and it's over). At this point I don't want her to send it but I do want her to write it. Still waiting on both but I told her I can't move on till she does these things.

She did finally get tested for STD's but her attitude was "there I did it" and not "I understand your concerns and should have done this even prior to you discovering the A".

We have been talking much more these days and she does check in daily with "did you have any triggers" and "is there something we need to talk about" or "are you reading another book?". The conversations we have are rather one sided, I talk - she listens. She has almost taken on the role of counselor, listening to me work through my emotions. We've been to a number of marriage, couples and family counseling sessions over the years so she is familiar with the process.

In a nutshell, she has decided that returning to the marriage is in her best interest. In a complete reversal, she now says she does need and want me in her life and she will do what she needs to to help "me" through this process.

I hoped my WW would return to loving me. Thought she would.

I was wrong.

Whatever her reasons were for staying in the marriage, love wasn’t one of them.

I think you’re in my boat, and it’s not where you want to be.

The concern I have is that she is going to help you through this process, but she apparently hasn't decided to resolve her own issues.

She cheated because she failed as a human being, and she doesn't acknowledge that failure. She is still in a cheater's mindset, and she can't change to a good partner without addressing her issues.

There are many paths to R, but they all include the WS's accepting responsibility for their actions and doing the internal work to change from cheater to good partner.

You may be asking for too little.

Let's go back to basics:
I recommend thinking of R as 3 healings:

1) You heal you. Most BSes are inundated with immense amounts of grief, anger, fear, and/or shame on d-day. The largest part of your work is to process those feelings out of your body. A good IC can help you do this.

2) Your WS heals themself. They need to change from cheater to good partner. I think that requires IC for the WS, but others disagree.

3) Together you build a new M.

This means you can recover from being betrayed without your WS; that is, you can survive this crisis and thrive without your WS, but you need your WS to R(econcile). You can heal yourself because you control yourself. You don't control your WS. I recommend making survive and thrive your primary goal and R your stretch goal.

Have you read the Healing Library here? If not, there's a lot of good stuff there. Click the link in the yellow box in the upper left of the SI pages.

I think there are a number of keys ingredients to the decision to R.

First, what do you want? Do you really want R? If not, don't lie to yourself. R is hard work, and wanting it makes it less difficult, but both D and R are moral responses to being betrayed.

If you want R, I recommend figuring out your requirements for R and seeing if your W will sign on. If they won't, perhaps they can come up with something else that will meet your requirements, but if you can't negotiate something truly acceptable to both of you, great - you can go directly to D. Otherwise, you can monitor them for 3-6 months and commit to R for yourself if they are (is?) consistent in meeting your requirements.

The requirements need to be observable and measurable. That way it's easy to monitor progress and make adjustments as you go along.

Common requirements include:

NC - no contact with ap; if ap initiates contact, report to BS and together decide how to respond
Transparency - BS has passwords to e-mail, voice-mail, phones, etc.; WS keeps BS informed of whereabouts, activities, and companions at virtually all times

Honesty - WS answers BS's questions when they're asked, although sometimes a break is necessary, sometimes an answer is best deferred to MC session, etc., no more lies.

IC for WS - to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A, with signed release that enables C to talk with BS about WS's goals and progress (so the BS can make sure WS's IC isn't being lied to).

IC for BS - for support - and for resolving any internal issue that comes up

MC - to help communications between the partners, if one or both partners want MC

Some (Most?) people have individual requirements - my W had to arrange dates for us on a weekly basis and must initiate sex sometimes. What do you want from your W?

And R is a joint endeavor - if one of you hides objections to the other's requirements, you sabotage R. And you have to see your WS as a human being of worth equal to your own to make R work. You don't have to see your WS as a human being equal to you to recover, but you sure can't R, except with an equal. (This is what Wallop meant when he wrote 'Pleased to meet you', IMO.)

R is very rewarding when both partners want it an do the work. It seems to be hell on earth, though, unless both do that work. Being betrayed is bad enough - spare yourself the pain unless you want the reward and have a partner who will join you in the process.

Thank you SISOON, sound advice and a solid go forward plan.

How are you going brother?
Regards,
FAWH

I am hoping you can reconcile and be a happy person in your life, not just settling.

I am hoping your wife steps up to the task of making amends.

I was not aware of SI during my H’s mid life crisis affair and his plan to D me. So I had to act on my own instincts and with support from my very wise and expensive therapist.

One thing I learned is to ignore a cheater’s words but pay close attention to their actions. Often the words are completely meaningless because their actions tell you or show you who/what they are.

The STD test is a prime example. Her attitude is "see? I got it done so you can stop talking about it" instead of using it as an opportunity to take the test, get the results and APOLOGIZE for having to take the test and expose you to some potentially dangerous disease.

And yes her questions about being triggered are not helpful. She may need to rephrase or take a different approach.

I hope this helps you.

The conversations we have are rather one sided, I talk - she listens. She has almost taken on the role of counselor, listening to me work through my emotions.

Hmmmm….how about she talks and you listen. I see little remorse here from her.