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Byebyebirdie, ironically thats exactly what she said, if she was to start that up I'd not believe her!

Bigger, don't worry, I got what you meant

Well @Alec, attempts at R with an unremorseful WW are a lot like Lay's potato chips: No one can have just one it seems.

They are also extremely bad for you.

Anyway your WW is not only not remorseful but she is STILL in the affair and sadly playing you for a fool--in front of your coworkers too sad to say. Meanwhile you probably don't know all that is happening. So to use another analogy you got yourself into quicksand when you let your WW back home. I don't see any other way than for you to go for D--and stick to it this time.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:23 PM, Tuesday, December 3rd]

Alec, I want to be very clear that I am in no way trying to get you to think your wife has a personality disorder. They are damning diagnoses so you hope that no one in your life has one. You have been married long enough to know your wife’s personality. You know her sense of humor, her morals, her outlook on life. What has blown you sideways is this new personality that has emerged that you have not seen before but I promise you there were signs and symptoms. You can’t change a personality. It’s the way your brain is designed. Because these personality disorders are a damning diagnosis professionals will not diagnose until after age 18. The issues might be there in childhood, but that does not mean they get diagnosed with a PD. Think about this, you have a personality, because everyone does. So why is it called disordered? It’s because people with personality disorders cannot engage in their environment with other people in a healthy way. They’re either extremely narcissistic, occasionally sociopathic or psychopathic, all over the place if they’ve got borderline personality disorder. People with BPD are so terrified of abandonment they will drive people crazy hanging on like barnacles. Until they get angry, and then they lash out with viciousness. So when I told you to look up personality disorders, I in no way tried to get you to think about diagnosing her. That takes a very well trained psychiatrist or psychologist to do that. There are ways to look at the people in our lives however that help. You can be on a continuum of someone with a personality disorder. For instance, I seem to be pretty self-centered and my rights and needs always become before yours. That does not necessarily mean I’m narcissistic because I might be able to bargain some or I might be able to see your point and apologize. A full-fledged narcissist is an entirely different person. What I want you to do is look at The Definitions of these personality disorders to see if there’s some semblance of what your wife is going through. If so, is she set in concrete that way or does she do some give-and-take? Big difference if you have someone who can maneuver through life. Look at how she gets along with everyone else in her life, including coworkers. If she’s a good employee or good employer, then she’s probably OK. If she has friends that have been there for a long time and think something of her that shows she probably does not have a personality disorder. People with personality disorders can wear you completely and totally out. I’ve had to deal with two of them and they are no longer my friends because I was exhausted working with them. I’m not trying to preach here. I just want you to understand that if your wife has had a pattern of behaviors that make no sense when you look at them, you have to figure out exactly what they are and sometimes you can’t. It’s going take a professional.

Alec,

I read your story and while some of our situation is similar (my WH, AP and the OBS all worked together so I would have been like the OBS in your situation - the only one immune to the gossip circuit at the workplace). My WH, AP and OBS all still work together although about 2 years after d-day 3 OBS divorced AP.

That being said...I know you are lamenting the financials and the "no where to go" thoughts. I too was worried about the same things...and ultimately after 3 years from d-day 1 I did indeed finally leave, in a financial poorer position and to somewhere that I knew no one. All I can say is it's BETTER. As in SO MUCH BETTER. I used to not worry about money - now I live paycheck to paycheck. I used to also live in the constant shadow of the affair and my WH's lack of ability to come close to giving me what I needed to stay with my sanity intact.

So, while I am not telling you to just walk off with reckless abandon - I am suggesting that you come up with a plan to go that you can deal with as honestly there isn't enough money in the world to make me go back to those days. You will make it through this. You will.

It just doesn't sound like she has any real motivation to change, and the added stress of being in your working environment--having to see the POSOM and everyone knowing your most private business--just sounds horrible. I applaud your strength in just enduring that.
You said you have two children at university. How much longer do you expect your youngest to remain at home? Does that align with your opportunity to move on?
While financial concerns are definitely a consideration, your own mental health is far more valuable. You sound like you have a lot to offer someone else, and you're still relatively young and apparently a catch. There's merit in ending the marriage and moving on. If she's making changes that resonate with you, there's always the chance that you could reconnect later.
Stay strong.

WontBeFooledAgai, she claims to be remorseful but says the shame and stress of everything are making moving forward so difficult. Obviously that's nothing vs what I have to go through.

Theres 0% chance the affair is going on in any way, the AP is fully aware of the consequences if I find that out. I would unrestrain my conscience shall we say. He's also watched like a hawk. Whether its going on in her mind to some degree, who can say. Agree re the quicksand though, I should have forced her to front load the effort at the start before coming back. Sadly legally I couldn't force that.

Cooley2here, youve nailed that. I knew my wife would lie to avoid angering me over impulsive decisions she makes in the spur of the moment, sometimes very important ones at that. But i never expected it'd extend to this.

I believe she's close to borderline personality disorder after looking into it previously. Its not chronic as she's well liked by most.

ThisIsSoLonely, I'm sorry to hear that, bit you've got to do what you've got to do.

I'm just refusing to let my wife's stupidity totally financially destroy my own life, and if I have to walk through hell a bit longer I guess I better buy some flame retardant shoes.

1994 , thanks for that

My youngest has 4 years left so I need to make sure theres a plan for stability there, preferably where I keep this house where she's spent her whole life.

I think once I decide its over there's no going back. Right now I am sort of grieving the loss of the relationship anyway.

I'd say that since they work together No contact was never really established. I mean she sees him every work day.

Other than "feel bad," what has she actually done. I mean what has she actually done? I am sure she says a lot of things, but come on. . . Her actions are telling you she doesn't value you or whatever kind of relationship you had/have. Why more do you need. I am very sorry to be blunt and I know how bad you are hurting. I just don't see things getting better until you get away from all those triggers. If you are re-traumatized almost everyday how do you ever find space to heal?

I am sorry, but you have to get away from this job and your wife. Both are making you re-live a traumatic experience multiple times a week. It doesn't matter if they don't talk or stare or whatever. Your job, her job, her, the AP. I still can't visit the city my Ws A took place in. That was over a decade ago. Still messes me up.

It sounds like you have a path forward to get out this terrible situation your W caused all on her own. Get away and live a different life. Who cares if your unremorseful future ex wife gets back with AP? If you've D her. . .they are no longer your problem. FWIW AP will likely cheat on your wife too. That tiger ain't going to change his stripes.

No matter what . . .stick with the IC. It saved me more times that I give it credit for.

Alec, I'd treat her like a roommate going forward, until you can eventually sever ties, bc that's by and large what she's been all along, especially with the witholding of intimacy and lack of affection...

Do what you gotta do until the last young'n is legal and start putting yourself first for once, life is too damn short to be wasting anymore of it...

I'm sure they're are things you stopped doing or hobbies you had and loved, but gave up on them bc of the fam in the past?. Do the needful once again bud...

If she wants to leave, then tell her don't let the door hit ya...

[This message edited by Byebyebirdie at 10:50 PM, Tuesday, December 3rd]

I am sorry Alec but she confronting and ''apologizing to'' AP means that she is still in the affair.

numb&dumb , agreed re no contact never being established. Especially not with the confrontations and email.

She talks a good game then can't really deliver, which is her nature generally w her ADHD, she finds doing difficult things much harder than Nero typical people do. That's by the by though.

Ive basically done exposure therapy to all the work relates triggers and seeing the AP, which has worked but obviously some remains. The ones that remain combined with a lack of effort from her means I'm not healing.

She'll never get with the AP, I already made it clear she can have him and she's not interested, thinks he's a disgusting coward and now knows he ruthlessly lied to her to use her.

But again if we D, thats not my concern.

Byebyebirdie, we've been sleeping apart for a while , she recently asked to sleep in the main bedroom but its not led anywhere. And I'm not sure I want it to now.

Ive already rekindled a few hobbies which has given me something else to focus on.

WontBeFooledAgai

Agreed, which is why that most recent betrayal hurt so much.

She's promised she will never contact him in any way whatsoever ever again after I explained how serious the breach of trust was. But can I trust her? Probably not.

[This message edited by Alec at 8:08 AM, Wednesday, December 4th]