SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Barring that, we continue to work on ourselves and the relationship and we’re set.

I read your post again and this jumped out at me. Continued deception should be a deal breaker post amnesty period, we seem to agree on that. But for you to say that as long as that doesn’t happen you are "set", that bothers me. Friend, there are other hazards. The bar is much higher than her merely not lying to you. Don’t settle for so little as that.

If she tries to whiteknuckle through, she lives under the sword of Damocles.

I don’t think your wife is feeling any sense of peril. She has faced no consequences for her actions in the past 11 years; what reason does she have to fear that anything will happen in 7 months?

You can’t make her change. The only person you have the power to change is yourself.

So again I’ll ask: why are you still focusing on working on the marriage instead of working on yourself?

Inkhulk,

When I say "set", I dont mean totally scot free to ignore everything else I seek. Im not that easy!

The other showstopper would be any new cheating type behaviors of any kind.

Bluerthanblue,

Ww is the most scared person Ive ever met. Always was but especially since d-day.

The last year and a half has probably been the worst time in her life. If you think reading my posts is hard, imagine living with that on a constant loop, but even more accusatory and angry and you get some idea. Her parents know, my family knows, her every footstep on eggshells. I dont envy her at all.

And Im not even sure she realizes it, but she paid a shitty price long before that. She got precancer in her cervix a year after the affairs, stopped feeling like she could have friends and social relationships entirely afterwards, and I may have mentioned how she was bullied out of her job after working her way to a director level position?

It had little to do with the cheating, but she took it for a long time to an outrageous extent because she believed she deserved it because of the affairs. That nearly killed her.

In any case, I am working on me. Im eating better, working out, sticking to my guns and giving myself permission to try to get my way And tell people fuck off when I need to. I never, uhm, felt like that was something I could do. Im still a codependent wretch. I still want to be good enough by proving my love.

Everyones got something wrong with em. Ive got oodles.

Im working on the marriage too. I can chew gum and walk.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 10:15 PM, Saturday, May 31st]

The other showstopper would be any new cheating type behaviors of any kind.

Still way too low of a bar. You should stay if and only if you are able to transition into a loving, supporting, nurturing relationship that serves you both.

Im working on the marriage too. I can chew gum and walk.

Love the spunk, but I think you are again thinking yourself super human. Working on yourself in this trauma will take more than all you’ve got for a while, if you are doing it right.

Yeah well, Im not "super". But Im very capable and I do what I can. Obviously, eventually entropy will get me. But it wont be from this.

I read the threads by Saddestdad and his wife Change4thebetter. That was really, really eerie. The sensations I experienced were just bizarre. It was like a fucking mirror. He said so many of the same things Ive said or thought. The sleuthing of her google history, the amount of subsequent discoveries.
The people getting triggered by his experiences and begging him to set himself free, to the point of lashing out at him out of care and concern. Im just as he was.

She was just like my wife is. Down to theories of dissociative amnesia/fugue, all the attempts to move past without coming clean, getting caught and called out over and over. A passed polygraph. Hmm.

Just bizarre.

They pulled it out. I hope I can. Hope we can.

I'm going to give you the same advice that I gave SD regarding his wife's alleged amnesia and "fugue states" that were conveniently only related to infidelity: If these events are happening or happening to her wife, she should see a neurologist.

SD refused to insist she see a neurologist, probably because he knew the answer that he would get was that his wife was perfectly fine.

The fact is, people who have brain damage or disorders that cause memory loss or impulse control issues don't experience these problems in only 1 aspect of life. Passed polygraph or not, I'm never going to believe for one hot second that she was suffering from memory problems or didn't know what she was doing when she was doing it.

Although there are many similarities between his story and yours, I think there are critical differences between his WW and yours:

-As I recall, their marriage was somewhat arranged. They barely knew each other when they got married, which is why he could say "She didn't love me when she was cheating on me but she loves me now."

-Whenever SD presented his wife with definitive proof of an affair, C4B miraculously "remembered" it.

-No matter what she was doing behind his back, she never humiliated or degraded him publicly.

-In other aspects of their lives, their marriage seemed pretty solid and C4B was a very level-headed and responsible wife and mother (another reason why her claims of amnesia were bogus)

I think that if C4B was a hot mess who subjected him to controlling behaviors and unhinged jealousy, insulted his intelligence, tried to convince him that he was crazy, or deprived him of his dignity in the eyes of other people, he would've never been able to rationalize a decision to reconcile with her.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:30 PM, Monday, June 2nd]

I think the tone of this thread is edging towards pretty forceful, and while I largely agree with the points being made, I fear we're reaching a point where advice is no longer productive. From a general user's perspective, this leaves us only able to offer support in a constructive way.

Some individuals need certain rationalizations to navigate their day. If 5bluedrops requires a belief in "magic brain injuries" to cope, then so be it. As long as he finds peace in that belief, I understand it. This isn't a new phenomenon. Some people attribute infidelity to a mental breakdown, others to their partner's childhood trauma miraculously manifesting in a way that led to them getting additional orgasms. Frankly, some even claim the devil was responsible. These are all rationalizations designed to help them swallow a terribly difficult pill.

Personally, for me to ever be open to reconciliation in my own life, I would likely need a similar belief system. Though, with my own strong attachment to logic, I suspect it would require me to develop a psychological disorder to accept such a premise, but that's just due to my own hang ups.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 5:07 PM, Monday, June 2nd]

I remember you saying you are a stubborn guy who digs in his heels to get what he wants. It makes me wonder if you are actually enjoying the process of trying to get your obviously WW to cop to the whole situation.

That's not an accusation, just a speculation. I don't even fault you if that's the case, I'm also one who enjoys unraveling knots and contests of will and intelligence.

Relationship-wise, though, you're just beating a dead horse. Hope the sex is good.

-M

Bluerthanblue,

I take your points. Yeah, theres differences. And they are material.

Aside from the controlling and jealousy issues, we have/had a very good marriage. Most of those were part of her abandonment fears. Insecure relationship with a frequently absent father. I get that stuff. It was easy to chalk those things up to imperfection and I looked the other way on those things for years. When suspicion turned into reality, and the curtain fell, all these behaviors fell under the same wayward flag. I told my wife, "I can deal with jealous. I can deal with disloyal. But jealous and disloyal is intolerable."

So its all being addressed. She can throw in the towel anytime. I know what I want.

DrSoolers,

Ive never accepted my wife’s explanation of trickle truth that some memory or dissociative disorder is in play. I know its lying, and lying about lying. I know as much for SD’s situation as well.

Im aware of your concepts about convictions.
I dont need to believe anything that isnt true to reconcile. All I need to believe in is redemption and my ability to see it. She is going to get. Every. Chance.

As I recall your convictions werent exactly tested. You seem sort of smug considering.

Mindjob,

Im not having any fun. I take personal satisfaction in standing my ground, but no pleasure.

The sex is amazing. The things Im dealing with arent exactly aphrodisiac in nature to me, and thats played out a little unfortunately. But sex isnt our problem.

Ive never accepted my wife’s explanation of trickle truth that some memory or dissociative disorder is in play. I know its lying, and lying about lying. I know as much for SD’s situation as well.

Apologies for the misunderstanding then, I will read more thoroughly before engaging further.

As I recall your convictions werent exactly tested.

Trust me, my convictions have been tested. Many times and in many ways throughout the years. No doubt about that.

You seem sort of smug considering

It's not smugness when your irrefutably amazing.

Obviously that's just jokes. Been noted before, working on it. Apparently improving. Apparently not soon enough.

DRSOOLERS

Some individuals need certain rationalizations to navigate their day. If 5bluedrops requires a belief in "magic brain injuries" to cope, then so be it. As long as he finds peace in that belief, I understand it. This isn't a new phenomenon. Some people attribute infidelity to a mental breakdown, others to their partner's childhood trauma miraculously manifesting in a way that led to them getting additional orgasms. Frankly, some even claim the devil was responsible. These are all rationalizations designed to help them swallow a terribly difficult pill.

If 5bluedrops's goal is stay married at all costs, then yes, he needs to hang on to rationalizations (or delusions) in order do so.

But if his goal is to get out infidelity (whether that leads to divorce or through reconciliation based on honesty and respect) then facing the facts and confronting reality is imperative. There's nothing kind, gentle, or constructive about validating a belief that is untrue, especially if that belief is causing them continued harm.

I completely disagree. I don't think that there's anything kind, gentle, or constructive about validating delusions or rationalizations. A BS needs to face the facts and reality in order to get out of infidelity. A WS needs to face the facts and reality in order to fix themselves and help rebuild trust.

5bluedrops

Aside from the controlling and jealousy issues, we have/had a very good marriage.

Aside from her bullying you into marriage when you felt something was off, her controlling and jealousy issues, her alcohol abuse, her cheating on you, her allowing her APs to ridicule you, her continued lying, her implying that you're mentally ill because you can plainly see that her facts don't add up, her blowing up at you any time you try to get space and assert your boundaries... you've had a good marriage.

This is like saying "This is such a great car, except the breaks don't work and it's leaking gasoline."

Please know that I'm not saying all this to beat up on your wife and take pleasure in being a bitch. I'm telling you this because you need to look at this relationship holistically and recognize what you're settled for and are continuing to tolerate. You have spent your entire life making your needs small in order to make other people happy. Your abandonment issues and trauma are just severe (if not more so) than hers, and yet you're not cheating on or abusing her.

"I can deal with jealous. I can deal with disloyal. But jealous and disloyal is intolerable."

My take: both are intolerable. Both are abuse. You've enabled for her long enough. She needs to understand that she either turns herself around--completely-- or you will be gone.

In any case, I am working on me. Im eating better, working out, sticking to my guns and giving myself permission to try to get my way And tell people fuck off when I need to. I never, uhm, felt like that was something I could do. Im still a codependent wretch. I still want to be good enough by proving my love.

I am really happy to hear that you're working on yourself and becoming more assertive. I hope that you will eventually get to a place where you escape codependency and you are able to love yourself as much as you love others.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:41 PM, Monday, June 2nd]