SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have a situation that is really bothering me that I just don't know how to handle properly. I'm frustrated and don't know what do to, but also don't feel like I can leave it be.

The situation:

A few weeks before my wife told me about her affair, she got a phone call from a work colleague, lets call him Bob, that she put on speaker phone. The first words out of his mouth were to address her as "Hey beautiful". This really bothered me at the time and I made it known that I didn't think that was okay for another man to be addressing her like that. After I found out about her affair with another colleague, lets call him Sam, I was even more upset by this comment. My wife told Bob it was not okay to talk to her like that (after I complained), and maintains that he doesn't talk like that to her any longer.

She still works with Bob though, they run independent businesses in the same industry.

Over the months I have expressed that I was not happy about her maintaining her relationship with Bob. When I would hear them on the phone it was clear they were friends not just colleague's. They would have friendly conversations on the phone, they would meet in person to work, they collaborate in business sharing knowledge and other industry related resources. He is a very "smooth" talker and is always complimenting her and buttering her up.

This made me uncomfortable, and I expressed my discomfort to her, but didn't explicitly tell her that I wanted her to end the relationship because I could see the benefits it brings.

As time went' on I found out that Bob was still friends with Sam and that he was speaking positively about Sam to my wife! Bob didn't know about the affair as far as I knew so I chalked it up to him just being a friendly person all around.

To her credit my wife took steps to not be alone with Bob, and to not go out to eat just the two of them, and not ride in the same vehicle etc.

As the months wen't on Bob and my wife continued getting closer and Bob wanted her to join his business. I was NOT okay with this and told her so. I told her that I wanted her to end her relationship with Bob. But I didn't push it again, and I didn't have a good boundary here because I was conflicted. They were helping each other and she really didn't want to end this relationship.

I was feeling angry and hurt that she continued this relationship even over my many objections. But again I'm still conflicted.

Then last month her affair partner started trying to reach out to her through Bob. Bob shut him down. That earned Bob points in my mind and caused me to hold off of insisting she end their relationship. Then her AP started stalking her, and Bob warned her, then ended his relationship with Sam.

Okay he earned some extra points in protecting her. But I'm still feeling disrespected by him for talking with her like that in the first place, and disrespected by her for not taking more explicit actions to protect our relationship after nearly a year of me complaining about him.

Also when he ended his relationship with Sam, he deleted all of the texts between them. This bothered me because it included the evidence of stalking.

Then the other day I found out that Sam had told bob early on after D-day about the affair. So this whole time Bob knew about the affair and didn't say anything. The whole time he's talking her affair partner up to her, complimenting him and telling her how he's such a great guy. Why would someone do that? Makes me very suspicious.

Bob wanted her to join his business, she made it clear that wasn't happening, so now he wants her to work closely with him on some projects as independent companies - basically the same thing as far as contact between them goes.

The other day she was describing her business to someone and told them that Bob was a "good friend". That bothered me because I have never met the guy in person, never spoken to him, and now they are good friends? What?

I'm really conflicted because it would be good for her business to work with him, and he has done some things to protect her from her affair partner. But I'm suspicious of him and his motives, and I don't feel respected by either of them.

I also understand that affairs tend to cause people to be hyper vigilant, so I'm concerned that Bob hasn't really done anything wrong enough for me to dislike him so much. Maybe he's just a smooth talker that is associated with the affair, and my trauma is affecting my judgement.

Can anyone help me identify if I should really be concerned about Bob, or if my view is clouded by trauma?

Thanks.

Well, I'm concerned about their relationship based on your post, and it's likely your view has been clouded by trauma and by your desire to R.

As often happen because the WS lacks strong boundaries. You're a year out from d-day; that's unusually quick for your W to have built the boundaries she needs. And I suspect Bob wants something more than a business collaboration.

My reco is to ask your W to disengage from Bob and find out what she's willing to do.

I’m of the opinion that since Bob knew about the A…he was fishing to see if your wife would bite.

He would be gone. Business opportunities or not.

Actions….meet consequences.

I don’t feel you are over reacting.

Theevent -

I have found bad boundaries to be an issue with a lot of WS.

My wife included.

My wife wanted to get better at boundaries and she did, it was a big part of the ‘work’ she did to be the safe partner she needs to be.

Being flirty or fun with the opposite sex isn’t dangerous in and of itself, but that kind of loose boundary can change in a hurry when someone’s life is stressful.

Letting a person you’re not in a relationship throw you compliments is a form of validation.

WS who need that kind of validation all the time from all kind of ‘friends’ and associates — have bad boundaries.

A WS who doesn’t understand or want to understand this, that’s a red flag.

After a while, it was my wife who figured out that she needed to set the strong boundaries herself.

What is your WS doing to be a safer, healthier, partner?

Bob doesn’t sound like an ally to your M or your recovery, you should be sure your WS knows how you feel.

When people cheat at work, they’re sure "nobody knows." But, of course, everybody knows. They see the way the cheaters interact, the way they look at each other, their comings and goings.

And when a woman is known to be available, many men will be interested: "Let’s see if I can get me some of that." Any hope of professional respect is gone.

And the woman’s career is over. Any male boss will be nervous to do something nice for her, give her a raise, promote her, lest his motivations be suspect.

Your wife should get away from all this and start over somewhere new.

Sounds to me like Bob is trying to slide into Sam’s vacancy.

Sounds to me like Bob is trying to slide into Sam’s vacancy.

100%

I'm with gr8ful on this one

TE,

Have your WW write out a timeline of the affair, then take her for a polygraph

It really sounds like there is more to this and WW is minimizing and Omitting

Was the affair exposed to OM wife etc

Did WW get STD testing?

Survrus

A few months after D-day my wife took and passed a polygraph that included her entire sexual history since we have been together. The AP's wife was the one who originally discovered their affair, and my WW told me a few weeks later when I sat her down and asked about some strange behavior she had been exhibiting for a while. We have both had STD testing. That happened shortly after D-day.

My WW says she is not attracted to or have a similar infatuation with Bob like she did with Sam, and I have no reason to disbelieve her at this point. I am suspicious of Bob, and his intentions, and I don't think she has good boundaries. So those two things together make me nervous about their friendship.

Best case scenario neither of them have good boundaries, which still makes me uncomfortable with whats going on.

I’m in agreement with the others. Bob sees an opportunity with someone who already "went there"
I’m most concerned your WS isn’t the proactive one and hasn’t already cast him out. Unless she’s a total idiot, she knows what’s going on.
And since I am that type of person, I wouldn’t blame you if you chose to "explain" it to Bob yourself.

I think solely that it makes you uncomfortable is enough. The consequences of cheating are far reaching and I have learned that my best investment is to choose my husband and how he feels about things over anything else. If he is triggering or tingly over something not sitting right with him then it doesn’t sit right with me either. That could be unhealthy if a partner is naturally controlling, but he hasn’t ever been that. I would also say I would not have been that clear a year out, as Sissoon points out boundaries typically take some time for a ws to build.

Besides, we could speculate on Bob all day. Maybe Bob simply doesn’t really care about the affair. People unaffected by infidelity don’t tend to get it. He probably did like Sam, until he revealed himself to have a screw loose. Still, none of it would mean to Bob what it does to you. When it got serious he acted which makes me think either he is a decent guy or he was using that protection to ingratiate himself. Whether that effort was towards business or vagina, that’s anybody’s guess. We don’t know Bob.

I find it pretty common for men to say crap like that to women. We have some friends who have these mutual friends who tend to show up to a lot of things we do. He always calls me beautiful in front of his wife and my husband. He gives me the heebie jeebies. I believe they think they are being charming. It’s cringe-worthy.

Your wife has put you in a position to not trust the situation. And she needs to choose her husband over her business. It may not be presenting clearly to her that way at this moment in time, but I think you should stop feeling conflicted about it, which would make it clearer. You have every right to have new boundaries while you sort through a new paradigm.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:24 PM, Tuesday, May 27th]

Event,

Many cheaters report that it was the AP’s desire for them that was so compelling. Your wife may not be attracted to Bob, but she might find his desire for her to be attractive. Be careful.

And with Sam out of the picture, your wife is more available than ever, to the men she works with. Bob wasn’t the first to come sniffing around, and he won’t be the last.

She needs to get away from Bob, and that place.

I'm with gr8ful on this one

Me too.

BTW Bob is fishing for ANY opportunity.

If it was merely a professional relationship he wouldn’t call her and say "hello beautiful". Even if he does that with every female he knows, it’s inappropriate. Period.

Bob is a bottom feeder. He will lay low as long as he needs to - because he hopes one day there is an opportunity.

The OM was stalking your wife through Bob? And Bob held him off at the pass? Hmmmmm…….

Your wife needs to find someone else to work with. She needs to go no contact with Bob. He’s a shady guy and your wife knows it too.

Everyone thank you for checking my thinking. Sometimes I feel crazy because of the affair, and need people who have been there to weigh in on my thinking. It's much appreciated!

OhItsYou

And since I am that type of person, I wouldn’t blame you if you chose to "explain" it to Bob yourself.

I think this is probably going to be my best course of action. What I really need is to feel respected by my wife, and respected by the people she calls "close friends". There are always going to be d-bags around who will try to take advantage of any opportunity she presents. I need to make it clear to him, and to her, what my boundaries are.

hikingout
You always have such balanced advice!

Maybe Bob simply doesn’t really care about the affair. People unaffected by infidelity don’t tend to get it.

I think this is likely. I know I didn't understand before I experienced it personally. This is why I usually downgrade advice from people who have never experienced it. They just don't know what they are talking about most of the time.

I think solely that it makes you uncomfortable is enough.

Yes! This is the most important part. It's why I don't feel respected, and what I need to see changing. I'm of the view that spouses get a veto on other relationships that threaten the marriage or make them uncomfortable enough to worry about it.

Your wife has put you in a position to not trust the situation. And she needs to choose her husband over her business. It may not be presenting clearly to her that way at this moment in time, but I think you should stop feeling conflicted about it, which would make it clearer. You have every right to have new boundaries while you sort through a new paradigm.

Thank you for this comment. I struggle with asserting (or even knowing my) boundaries post d-day as I'm sure is obvious from my posts. All I know is the pain, and that I'm looking for a solution to it. The rest I get to figure out. The help on these forums helps so much! Thank you!

I struggled to asset myself in my marriage. For 25+ years I was a door mat and my H dud things he knew I was not on board with. He was constantly late, no accountability, badgered me to get what he wanted, etc.

Until dday2 of affair2. A typical midlife crisis affair where he was kicking me to the curb for a much younger OW.

After 6 months of what I thought was Reconciliation but he was still cheating, I had enough.

I knew if I didn’t do something I was going to continue to be a doormat and he would most likely continue to cheat because there were no consequences. But everything I tried just didn’t stop him from cheating during his last affair.

Dday2 - I told him in a very very short face to face conversation that unfortunately I was D him. He left me with no choice. I told him at this point our marriage is over and he is free to be w/ the OW or anyone else.

And then I left the room. It wasn’t a discussion. I was done.

He didn’t get the point- and he still thought he controlled the situation. I did the hard 180 and told him he had to leave. He refused. So in front of him I picked up the phone, called a friend, and told him my H (soon to be ex husband STBXH) was coming to stay with him for a few days until he found a place to stay — on his own.

That was the turning point in my marriage. We are happily reconciled because I changed. I learned how to get exactly what I want without yelling or drama.

I changed. My H changed (or else we would not remain married) and we have happily reconciled.

I hope this helps you. I am able to trust my H and we have been able to get past his midlife crisis affair. We are both happy. And that is what makes a difference in reconciliation. We are happy and not settling.

Thank you for this comment. I struggle with asserting (or even knowing my) boundaries post d-day as I'm sure is obvious from my posts. All I know is the pain, and that I'm looking for a solution to it. The rest I get to figure out. The help on these forums helps so much! Thank you!

Your boundaries are based on how you feel and what you want. I don’t think most people can make arbitrary boundaries. I mean most of us do that in the beginning right? Access to this or that, get therapy, etc. but long term blanket boundaries are rules.

I find the way is just to be honest with yourself. It seems you have been married a long time and part of that collaboration is compromise. What you should largely put away for some time after cheating is compromise. If it bothers you, then it puts resistance and struggle into healing. Hood your standards because that is what you want and need in order to have an environment to heal.

I am not really talking about all compromise. Just the things that keep you ill at ease. You assert yourself because you now have to protect your energy and time so you can deal with this bomb that she has thrown into your marriage. Ask for what you need, and if she keeps being unwilling or ignoring it then she is not reconciling material. It’s her job to become a safe partner for you starting immediately. And to continue to improve and become more well adjusted and gain clarity over how she approaches life in unhealthy ways and to practice getting healthier and stronger.

This is an incubation period where each individual needs to work towards their own recovery. If both do their jobs you will be amazed at how much easier the marriage will be able to fix. A lot of people try and fix the marriage first but soon their wheels because it’s a sum of it’s parts.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:56 PM, Wednesday, May 28th]

I fear that talking with Bob will have an effect that you don't want. It might say to him that you sense danger because your W is vulnerable to him. He might take that to mean being persistent will get him a prize.

Besides, Bob owes you nothing. It's your W who has an obligation to you, and it's your W's responsibility to create and maintain her own boundaries. My reco is: don't set yourself up as your W's bodyguard. Don't try to control her. Doing so is too likely to create more problems.

I can see wanting to give Bob a piece of your mind, but I can't understand actually giving him anything.

Sisoon

Your advice seems to be at odds to the rest of the advice on this thread.

You say:

My reco is: don't set yourself up as your W's bodyguard. Don't try to control her.

It seems like me talking to Bob is me setting myself up to be the bodyguard.

In your previous post you say I should ask her to disengage from Bob and see what she is willing to do.

How do you envision this working with setting boundaries? Am I trying to control her by setting boundaries? What a boundary look like in this situation?