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Hi to all the wonderful people out there that have been so kind to me! I am almost a year out from Dday. I have to share this experience with you because my friends just can’t understand it bc they have not been betrayed. (Obviously it’s not their fault) that’s why I’m glad I have you here to "listen".
I have gone no contact with my STBX husband, only necessary email correspondence. I have not seen him since last August. The days are getting easier but I still am having a very hard time with thoughts of him and his betrayal. My kids (age 23 and 20) don’t see him much but have a relationship with him. He lives two hours away from us but his AP lives local. Yesterday I had a setback. So I was stopping up at my daughter’s work (she is a hair stylist) to drop off paperwork, and I saw my husband’s car in the lot and him standing at the counter paying! This took me very off guard bc he is primarily at his work apartment but only here when he’s at his AP’s house. My daughter hasn’t told me she has given her dad any haircuts since our separation. My initial discovery of his affair was discovering his car in his AP’s driveway. Seeing MSTBX’s car in the parking lot of my daughter’s salon unexpectedly, especially when my daughter kept this information from me, brought so many bad feelings to the surface for me. It was like ptsd in a way. The feeling of my loved ones sneaking behind my back and lying. Now they know my daughter has no ill will at all towards me but I think she is afraid to tell me when she’s with her dad bc she knows it would hurt me. I have told her I want her to have a relationship with her dad and I have not bad mother him at all towards my kids. Basically when I saw this I got so shaken and almost scared, almost like a panic attack. I was thrown off for a couple hours. Has anyone experienced something like this before? It’s hard to describe but he has a horrible effect on me. I can’t get over how he lied and cheated and disrespected me. I only supported him and gave him all the love I had. Why is he being so cruel to me? I think my main issue is that he was sneaky and lied for years and I hate the feeling he get knowing that and now I have no more tolerance for anyone (especially my daughter) keeping secrets from me. Can someone please help me reason this? I do have a counselor but I’m asking bc you all have been betrayed like me and understand these feelings. Looking forward to your input…

Please excuse my typos! I think you can figure out the words I was trying to type!!

...I think she is afraid to tell me when she’s with her dad bc she knows it would hurt me.

Why does it hurt you when your daughter spends time with her father?

I guess I didn’t communicate that correctly… it doesn’t hurt me when she spends time with her dad. The part that hurts is that the situation was sneaky and done behind my back. I was surprised to see him there with her. I am very sensitive to the sneakiness and lies since I discovered that my stbx had been doing it to me for years. It was intimate betrayal. This feels like more betrayal. I guess it may not make sense but it’s my feelings…

I think I understand, Lotus. After being lied to or having damaging secrets kept from you, you become very sensitized to that behavior, even if it comes from someone you generally trust. We all deeply trusted our WS's. It messes with our sense of reality to have that deep trust so thoroughly destroyed. What you experienced is definitely PTSD. It's a flashback. The brain/body remembers when those similar feelings are brought up, and you naturally relive the worst of it.

Since your daughter is an adult, I would recommend that you have an open conversation with her about this. Explain to her that you need her to be scrupulously honest, especially when it comes to matters that involve her dad, but even otherwise. Explain that it's better if you know what's happening even if she thinks it'll upset you because it will hurt you much more if you discover that she was hiding/lying about it.

I can actually understand where you are coming from. Part of me understands that a child deserves a relationship with both parents (unless one is abusive), but the other part wants the child to see how much this person hurt us. And maybe protect them in a way.

But at the end of the day, most children will want both of their parents in their lives. It is only normal. And it doesn't mean that they love you any less. I have to remind myself that every single day, even when I am so angry at my ex.

I am just in the beginning of the separation/divorce process with two littles, so I cannot give much advice regarding your daughter. But I don't think that she is trying to hurt you or intentionally keep secrets. Like you are learning to navigate this new reality, she is also doing the same. Don't be too hard on her, and don't be too hard on yourself. The only person that deserves your anger is your ex.

Betrayal trauma results very often in ptsd, we could say it is a specific cluster of ptsd, you are in permanent fight or flight mode.

Almost all trauma cause stress disorders with different flavors, this is the kind that undermines the core pillars of your inner world safety.

So it is normal.

Healing will look like this: when you meet him or his affair partner and you feel absolutely nothing. Just awareness that these are yuck human beings and is better to reduce contact with such people to the minimum inconvenience.

Not because they elicit any reaction into you anymore, but because they are worthless.

The man is not a man, is a manlet, weak, pavid, sneaky and backstabbing.
The woman is so low that she has to snatch your leftovers (your ex mistake of a person). So she is a c -dump for desperate guys with their nose well closed. We used to call them skunks.

Is just how you would avoid any slimy people, they clearly showed that’s what they chose to become. So leave them in the mud and don’t get dirty.

Your kids probably are feeling your chaos and care to protect you from the sewage smell.
Not their fault part of their heritage comes from the sewers, but they chose to keep you safe from the stench and to deny belonging and becoming like their father (hopefully).

They know who the villain is, and they wish he could redeem himself, as you likely wish or wished too, but they do their best with their hand they were given.

Unnecessary to say your ex doesn’t give a crap about your or your kid’s discomfort, he will keep living in the limbo of his fantasy, until it will become that special kind of heel that in the end consumes the people with his issues. Self sabotage patterns will slowly erode everything in his life, like he did with yours.

Worse because unlike you, he cannot leave himself, and we established already he has no balls to face his issues and heal himself.

So he is doomed most likely, unless he’ll wake up one day, but it’s not your problem anymore.

Take it as a sign that you have something to work with to fully heal the wounds, make the best use f it and don’t worry about worthless people.

Let karma do it’s thing, it always works

I completely understand the pain this situation caused.

If she has said "I still cut dad’s hair" and you saw it, no big deal. You would not have cared if you saw him at the salon.

But finding out it was done behind your back or secretly brings up the same level of trauma you experienced by the STBX.

Tell your kids you are not prying but they can tell you if or when they see or speak to their dad. It doesn’t have to be a secret. It doesn’t need to be hidden because they feel they are betraying you.

I absolutely understand what you are saying. It amazes me what can trigger me. Something that someone would not even think has a connection...can actually trigger a different thought and make me remember the betrayal and the grief.

I think this is completely natural. Your body just has to work through these things. They will always hurt too....but the severity will decrease.

We learn to live with the hurt at some level. And there is always be some level of grief too I believe.

You are really not that far out being only about one year. I am just over two years and it is getting better. We are reconciling, so that is different that your situation.

It is good you are processing these feelings. This is the best thing to do. It always helps me when I am triggered to take them to my wife and she shows empathy and remorse and justifies my experience.

Hang in there Sister, and don't give up on love. ❤️

I might gently challenge the framing of this as something that this was done in secret, behind your back.

My parents divorced due to my dad’s infidelity when my sisters and I were late20s - early30s. Similar to you, my parents went NC. All of us but one of my sisters live in the same town.

Like your daughter, I didn’t and still don’t keep either of my parents apprised of my relationship with the other. I never wanted to feel like I was in the middle. I never wanted to be accused of "taking sides" or getting involved.

In those early days I was worried about losing my relationship with my father (which would come to pass years later, as it turns out). I’d say things like "he was a lousy husband but still a great father" and "he’s my dad, I love him warts and all".

Anyway, I guess what I’m saying is any interaction I had with my dad didn’t feel like it was behind my mother’s back. Felt weird, but not clandestine. If asked, I would have probably said that I thought she didn’t even want to know.

[This message edited by Letmebefrank at 3:21 PM, Sunday, June 7th]

I don’t have children.

Would you honestly want to know when your children have contact with their father? If it is more than you would expect, how do you think you will react? Betrayed? Disappointed? Dishonored? If those feelings surface, then your daughter’s possible desire to protect you may be correct.

They are adults technically. I would not put them in the position of keeping you informed of their contact w their father.

I think your reaction is yours to resolve independently. I wouldn’t even tell your daughter what you saw or experienced.

I’ve seen many times here parents will ask children to specifically not feel obligated to keep them informed—unless you’re dealing with minors and unsafe situations. This is clearly not the case.

I can understand why you reacted. We probably all would-however your daughter is not doing anything sneaky. If her dad will pay her for a haircut-better than asking her to come to the OWs house and do it for free. Ya know?

Take care.

The part that hurts is that the situation was sneaky and done behind my back.

Your adult daughter's relationship with her father is none of your business. She's under no obligation to keep you informed of any interactions with him.

I understand the effects of betrayal trauma. Been there and done that. I'm sure seeing him unexpectedly at the salon was a massive trigger with nasty, fugly hairs on it. And I'm sorry you had to experience that shit. It hurts. I know.

Betrayal trauma (PISD) causes hypersensitivity, hypervigalence, and hypereveryfuckingthingelse. It's important to keep that in mind because it's a part of the healing process.

This is all so helpful. Very good points of view. Keep ‘em coming, Thank you!

Lotus, you have received a lot of feedback here. My own thought, after placing myself in that pain/shock situation, might be irrelevant to you, but just in case this possibility resonates, here it is: I don't know what your mother-daughter dynamic was for the years before your WXH's betrayal, but if you and she felt like you had an especially close bond, that somehow excluded the father-daughter dynamic, perhaps seeing him in her place of business felt like a betrayal of what you thought she would do about the D, or how she would handle it? I know for years before my mother D'd, she and my father were IHS and she made no secret to me of her distaste for his lifestyle choices. His drinking she did talk to us about; his girlie magazine collection, she didn't talk about! But everything came to a friction point when I, her first born, left the nest and she expressed how my own choices were going to be a disaster (the fact that she was proven right by later events in my life doesn't make me proud!)

But she eventually made her peace with letting go of her active "parent" role which she apologized and told me it was hard for her since her own mother had been the same way with her.

So just some more food for thought and nothing about your reaction surprises me.

Lotus,

What is your relationship with your daughter like? Does she know any details about his A and your split? Did you confide in her? Is she a mature 20?

I think if I were in your situation I would try to explain the effects of betrayal trauma. Only if she is mature enough to understand. Careful not to put any guilt or blame on anyone. Not to require notifications from her regarding her dad. I wouldn't mention the incident. I would have the discussion on a day when the opportunity presented itself. Tell her that this is your issue to work on that while it's a challenge it will get better.

She didn't betray you. She's trying to survive your H's shitshow too. She's young. If anything, she was showing compassion for you. Good on you for not poisoning her relationship with her dad. Time has a way of righting the wrong. Be patient.

Hello Lotus, I just wanted to drop in my 2 cents for what it's worth....hopefully more than 2 cents.

First of all, be kind to yourself. You're coming out of one of the worst traumas known to humans - great betrayal. Look at what the world thinks of Judas Iscariot, often considered perhaps the worst human ever. Because of betrayal. Brutus stabbing Caesar....et tu, Brute? Various examples of this throughout history - betrayal is perhaps the worst thing anyone can go through, many say (even me) that it's worse than cancer. Think of that. And yet you are coming out of this, you're healing, you're getting better and don't kick yourself over a setback. Triggers and setbacks are inevitably gonna happen and they always hit when we're not looking. So congratulate yourself on where you are generally now, it's impressive.

As for this specific situation, it sounds like you just got hit with something totally unexpected that punched you in the gut. You've been no contact for some time and you know he only shows up here when he's going to his AP's and you just make a quick run to drop off the papers to daughter....and there the bastard is, live and in living color. It's shocking, how can it not be. I'd be shocked too. But these things are going to happen, life hands us the unexpected and it frequently stinks.

As for your daughter, I know it feels like a betrayal, but it isn't. She has her own relationship with Dad, as she should for good or ill. I assume you just dropped in so she didn't know you were coming and you coming to the salon is probably not a regular or common occurrence. It's just one of those twists of life. She's not hiding anything from you, she just never expected you to be there. I'm sure she wouldn't schedule him there if she thought you were coming.

I'm wondering - did you actually directly encounter him or did you duck out till he left? How did this encounter go? Did you and your daughter have any discussion about this then or later?

What I would do is talk to your daughter openly about this. Just tell her that you have been no contact for however long - nearly a year I think? And that he did hurt you terribly and it was a shock to see him. Not to say this to prevent her from seeing him or giving him hair cuts but I think she should know how you feel about this so it doesn't become a barrier between the two of you. Distrust builds barriers. I think it would be reasonable for the time being for her to give you a head's up when she knows he'll be at the salon or if you might encounter him. Then you could go or not. At some point, you probably WILL have to see him in public or maybe even interact with him to some extent, perhaps at a family event, but I don't think you're ready for that now. More time needs to pass. You might prepare yourself in advance by playing scenarios in your head of how you would handle it. A therapist might even help you through this kind of process. But I think it is reasonable considering not much time has passed and you are still recovering from a rip your heart apart disaster....to let your daughter know how difficult this is for you - not that it's her fault at all, but that it IS difficult for you. And to give you a head's up when he shows up. In the meantime, you can work on learning to deal with the likelihood of running into him again at some point, because you probably will, and this should not become a phobia or a source of friction between you and your daughter, or other kids you may have.

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I feel/felt exactly like you do in regards to my son's relationship with his dad. I want them to have a relationship, and they do. But, even after 10 years, I do not like to be blindsided. I told my son early on, at the time it happened he was a senior in high school, that I don't like surprises. He doesn't have to give me details, he doesn't have to share his relationship with me, but I don't like to be caught off balance. When he moved home for a bit after college (during covid) and lived with my bf and me he worked for his dad. I think that's when he got the most comfortable about how much he wanted to share and how much I wanted to hear. Just basic "saw dad", and lately it's "never see dad, he doesn't visit them" and my response is "that's good" or "that's too bad." I never want to ask, but I will always listen. (I think I told him those exact words once.)

It helps that my son lives in the big city, but WXH and OP still live in town and I've learned to avoid their visiting time at the grocery store.

"It’s hard to describe but he has a horrible effect on me. "

Many of us likely have similar effects

I think of it this way. It’s natural to love one’s DC and want to have a relationship and also to want protect them. Natural to want "no parts" and no contact with an unrepentant betrayer. So here we are.

Sending positive thoughts your way for peace and healing in this difficult situation.