SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey All,

Just wanted to say I haven’t abandoned this thread. I’ve had to devote my energy into my current situation and it’s been a distraction to say the least.

I will say that we have a meeting with the head pastor and elders along with OM and his BS tomorrow afternoon. I’ll try to provide a synopsis of it as soon as I am able.

This still sucks.

Yeh, it all sucks.

Be sure you elucidate exactly what you expect to come of this meeting. Stay strong and do not back down.

Best wishes.

Had the official meeting at my church late this afternoon with the head pastor, two elders, OM, his wife, my wife and myself. It started with my wife reading a statement that she prepared. I will give her a lot of credit. The content was accurate, had plenty of remorse and took accountability for their communication being excessive and breaking our rule of not texting without me being included, etc. She explained to everyone how bad she felt for betraying my trust and hurting me so deeply. My wife also admitted to more than one past incidences including the 😘❤ and said she does in fact have a history of having issues maintaining appropriate boundaries with communication with the opposite sex. My wife also announced that she has stepped down from the deliverance ministry. She was crying the whole time reading it. She finished with a heartfelt apology to the wife of the OM.
I prepared my own statement which I thought was also well written and I calmly put my foot down. Said all communication between them completely stops. He is to respect my right to defend my marriage from inappropriate contact. Basically, everything said on this thread. Nothing new but I was cool and collected and was firm.

After our prepared statements were read it was then the OM and his wife’s opportunity to say what they wanted to say. OM stated that he was actually shocked. He said he didn’t feel he had to apologize because he didn’t do anything wrong and there were no sexual feelings and he was just trying to help her with understanding the deliverance ministry because she seemed so eager and excited. He also stated that I should’ve talked to him man to man and told him to chill out on the communication rather than calling for a meeting. OM wife said she completely trusted her husband and that "just who he is" and it’s his Southern caring personality. She had no interest in getting copies of our prepared statements. She wasn’t upset or nasty in her response just matter of fact. The pastor had the call log printed out but kept it turned face down and didn’t share it.

What else. Let me think because I am sleep deprived. Ok. The pastor was very political in how he conducted the meeting. Ultimately he said he didn’t think OM had any bad intentions but needed to tone down his Southern hospitality personality when it comes to ministry. Yea. The pastor did say that any texting between opposite sex in any ministry would need to include the spouses in the conversation thread. They would make sure this would happen from here on out. Cool.

The pastor then turned to me and stated that he felt that my discernment was "probably heightened" because of what has happened in the past with my wife’s communication issues such as the 😘❤ era. He turned to OM and stated that he had to understand that not everyone has the same walk or experience in their marriage as they do. In other words, our marriages are obviously not the same and have different rules and boundaries.

The pastor agreed that my wife and I should not even think about being in any ministry and we needed to work on our issues. The OM is remaining in the deliverance ministry.

The meeting was calm overall. No yelling or raising of voices. No cutting each other off and interrupting. Pastor and leadership said they loved everyone deeply and said we are a big family that works things out. Meeting adjourned. Great.

My wife and I actually went out to dinner did so more talking and walked around an outdoor mall looking at Christmas lights. Had hot chocolate. She just went to bed a little while ago and seemed unusually quiet and almost mad. It’s been a long day so I’m not trying to read more into it but her demeanor seemed different. I suppose I’ll see what’s up with that tomorrow.

Now that I’m typing this summary, I’m starting to get pissed again and see that there was minimization and rug sweeping going on during the meeting with a slick delivery or am I just too sleep deprived? It’s been a long 13 days thus far.

Yes minimization is putting it mildly! The pastor advising you and your wife not to "think of being in any ministry before sorting your stuff out" is unbelievable. All I can say is that this particular ministry is not for you or your wife and that is not because of your shortcomings, but theirs.

As for the "southern gentleman" predator piece of shit, he needs to have is ass kicked. He relied on the bullshit of the Pastor to put himself above all and maintain a false sense of nobility in this. The sheer disrespect in saying he had nothing to apologise for even after your wife had the grace to apologise to his wife, is indicative of the fact that he will simply move on to his next target with no consequences.

And as for his wife, she is weak and subjugated. A stronger woman would have had his balls for garters even before getting to this meeting. She (and he) want to bury this as fast as possibole (for different reasons).

Take pride in standing up for your marriage, your wife, and your self and let this "ministry" eat shit. You have set your boundarie with the shithead and issued a (tacit) warning. Well done.

[This message edited by Talisman at 3:58 AM, Sunday, December 15th]

Got it for sure. Appreciate the response. All of this definitely makes me 🤬

I’m sorry but you expected far too much from the church. Their goal was to get this to go away and protect the church from any involvement.

Which in reality, the church has no responsibility in any of this. Just because the OM used a church ministry as his "in" — well that’s on him.

The church needed to protect itself — and they did. They had no role in this and to me, acted as expected.

The OM and his wife - well that was to be expected too. Most EA players won’t admit anything is inappropriate and as he says - it was not sexual so there was no affair. Hmmmmm……clearly the OBS doesn’t see her husband’s issue but that’s on her to accept as it’s her marriage.

You hit the expected outcome. Maybe not the desired outcome. You expected the church leaders to see the situation you see - inappropriate behavior. However they saw it as "not our problem" and acted accordingly.

As I stated previously I urge you to find another church. You will not be happy moving forward w/ the leaders’ response. I don’t know how you will view their sermons in the future or agenda b/c it is now tainted.

I’ve been in your position w/ church leadership being shady and manipulative. Watched one senior pastor decimate a good church inside of 5 years. Most of us left after being shunned due to a vote not going her way (I never vocalized my opinion regarding my position but my friends all did, and I was lumped in with them).

People — even church leaders — will always act in their own best interest.

Fair enough. You make some decent points. Thanks for responding. I do appreciate it and your perspective.

Happy

I think it is sad that you are not being treated well by the church leaders.

What I have learned in "real life" is that life isn’t always fair. Liars and cheaters often do win — as we have all seen happen.

Your energy is best spent on your marriage ImO.

My H had a 4 years EA in the 90s before the team EA was coined. I watched it happening right in front of me. He was not in love with the OW (but I could be wrong) but he was addicted to the ego boost and attention. She however, was madly in love with him and it was obvious.

However he denied the whole thing. In his mind, no sex = no affair. 4 years of hell for me to watch this unable to stop it. It finally ended when I was so furious w/ him I didn’t speak to him for days. He finally got the message.

His mid life crisis affair 15 years ago finally ended when I told him I had enough of his lying and cheating and I was D him. And I had a very solid plan to D him too. But somewhere along the way he pulled his head out of his butt and took responsibility for his actions and had true remorse and made amends.

I hope the same for your wife — she learns to stop needing other’s attention and praise and finds happiness in the life she has.

I think any organization would act about the same. An exceptional one might make the om at least suspend his ministry activities. I mean, om may not think he crossed any line, but IMO pastors should know about slippery slopes and EAs by now. The guy is likely, IMO, to do this again if partnered with a woman.

In any case, pastors and church managers want peace in the house, so few will dig deep.

But the big problem here seems to be your W's lack of boundaries. She's the only one who can build her boundaries, so what will she be doing to get them built?

Well, at least some apparent remorse is kicking in recently. I’ll see if this is just a temporary change in attitude. A trusted female elder friend is sending her a book and materials for her to work through called something like "The 7 Lies the Enemy Tells You."

I’m at a watch, wait and see phase at this point.

Unfortunately churches are profit generating businesses, and that is what they really are a business and they are often run in exactly same manner.

I've been friends for many years with a man who has been part of the creation of a reasonably well known church. He left that church because of exactly what you are seeing from this so called "Pastor". From what you wrote this seemed more like a HR meeting, covering the company and the revenue stream which is dependent upon membership growth. I would recommend moving on from such people, hypocrisy is something I cannot tolerate, and that "pastor" and church have quite the stench of it.

Remember churches reflect their leadership, this "leader" is more interested in the dollars, than accepting responsibility for what they should be about.

The church was doing what was in the best interest of the church. Don’t involve them in this moving forward. Share the information you have directly with his wife. Your post about the formal meeting was triggering. Specifically the way he pretended how he was an innocent who only wanted to help. Find a new church. Start fresh. I know it’s hard.

Oh, the official church meeting was a one and done for me. I’m not wasting any more time and energy on that nonsense. I learned what I needed to learn on more than one level so it was worth it from that sense.

I’m not sharing anything more with the OM wife. She had the opportunity to learn more, declined and said she will always trust her husband 100%.

That’s a good way of framing the meeting like an HR meeting, hardyfool. That’s exactly what is was.

I think you having the courage to insist on the meeting accomplished more than you realize:

1- the entire church family will soon hear about it. Doesn't matter if anyone in the church agrees with you. EAs are difficult to prove.

At a minimum there is now a spotlight shining on the AP. And don't be surprised if he changes churches.

2- of course his wife protected him in public. Unless they have an open marriage she is pissed at him and will make his life miserable.

3- you didn't ambush your wife. She knew you were concerned- and she ignored you.

For whatever reason she didn't believe you had the courage to expose her.

I believe she has an increased level of respect for you.

I think you are right regarding her respect for me. However, time and actions will tell.

I am fairly certain that the root for the responses you have gotten so far from the church and others lies in how society still doesn’t recognize EA’s as easily as "old-school" physical affairs. As I said in my very first post on your thread:

Keep in mind that emotional affairs weren’t recognized as an "issue" until late 1980’s. That’s not really so long ago. Even then, many therapists and mental-health professionals tended to minimize them. A "classic" affair – as in physical contact – has a very clear definition. There is little half-way in groping or being groped, having physical intimacy or shoving your tongue down someone’s throat. Emotional affair are more sublime – more undefined.

If you want to press the matter with the church I would suggest you ask the pastor to read Not Just Friends and then evaluate what took place. You could recommend OM and his wife read that book, but don’t hold your breath.
Personally – I think the key for your marriages recovery lies in your wife reading that book, and that she acknowledges (at least) how you are justified in seeing what took place as emotional infidelity.

As-is I fear that most stakeholders (wife, church, om and omw...) simply think you are overreacting to something relatively benign. You need a hornets-nest like SI and us infidelity-impacted hornets to find an environment that acknowledges what happened as infidelity.

Honestly, the odds that this church is going to take any advice from an online infidelity forum is next to zero. They really didn’t listen to 1st person facts so I’m not going to bother, at this point, to presenting more resources for them to consider.

I do appreciate your insight, though.

And I agree that they aren’t recognizing this as an affair because no physical contact evidence was presented or is known may this point.

If there was PA evidence provided, the church board would’ve of asked us to leave the church anyway so 🤷.

Sorry, I can't get quotes to work, I keep getting a 404 error.

You said, "If there was PA evidence provided, the church board would’ve of asked us to leave the church anyway so 🤷."

Nothing quite so grand a gesture than to shoot the wounded.

You also said, "Honestly, the odds that this church is going to take any advice from an online infidelity forum is next to zero. They really didn’t listen to 1st person facts so I’m not going to bother, at this point, to presenting more resources for them to consider."

I have to think you are 100% correct on this. I think it's time to ignore the church and focus on things with your wife. I almost said fixing things with your wife, but I think that's wrong. She needs to be the one doing the fixing. I really hope she steps up and does what it takes to make thing right.