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So, I found out last night that a male member of our church has been calling my wife without my knowledge 4-5 times per week since this past April. They are both volunteers in the same ministry at our church. Several days they are talking 2-3 times with enough call logs showing minutes ranging from 18-42 minutes. He has called her early in the morning when she is driving to work as well as in the evening. He also contacted her during Thanksgiving holidays recently when we visiting my mother. Also, earlier in Nov when our family was at Disney. There are texts on Instagram and FB messenger over the last several months as well but not as many as the iMessages. Whatever.

The texts across the various platforms seem related to the ministry for the most part. It’s the calls that I have no idea of the content.
The 3-4 times I overheard the calls I thought he was sharing too much personal information that was not related to the ministry. Just enough to irk my spidey senses which lead to my investigation and finding all of phone calls logs and texts.

Most of the initiation of contact has been from him BUT she made the choice to keep answering the phone and engaging. We had a talk last night and she admitted that it was wrong but didn’t think it was at the time until I brought it to her attention.

I’m 54. She’s 58. I’ve been through pretty much an emotional affairs with her about 6 years ago through a guy at work. He had tested positive for marijuana and got fired but she fought vehemently to get him rehired. He was "depressed" and she kept reaching out asking how he was feeling and sending 😘and ❤️. She got him another job at her work. She was his boss and had made the rule about testing for MJ=loss of job.

I haven’t seen any 😘❤️ emojis going back and forth between this guy in the ministry but she has broken our rule of no personal texting of opposite sex with copying/including me in the thread.

I’m a former lurker of this site from the 😘❤️ era that I mentioned. It took a few years to get over the coworker but now I’m here again. Similar but different yet same, I guess.

Am I overreacting to the current situation with the guy in the same ministry as her? I’m very pissed, feel betrayed but am trying to figure out if it’s the past wounds exaggerating my emotions.

Either way, this sucks.

Sorry if I’m a bit incoherent but I didn’t get much sleep last night. Yay.

What she is doing is inappropriate. It’s hard to believe she didn’t see it that way, especially with an ea in her history.

I’m a pastor. There is no reason for multiple daily phone conversations and multiple texts. This is personal at its core, even if the ministry is the hard protective candy shell.

It sounds like you have some more unpacking to do. It seems she knew she was wrong, because no texts from other men that you don’t know about was the standing rule, and she was using a multitude of apps, and somehow this guy has all her contacts?

There are some red flags here.

Sorry you are here. Hope you can get to the truth and that she is honest. Most aren’t, even with themselves.

Thank you so much, pastor. I know you have dealt with similar situations over the years as a pastor.

Just you responding helps immensely.

Seems like she's an attention and validation junkie, who doesn't take your boundaries seriously...

I would've put a VAR in her car(if it's legal in your state), to hear what sweet nothings were being whispered, before confronting her...

Seeing that just talking to her has no real effect, I would light a lil fire under her kapax, in the form of a consultation and let her know that you're going to...

Her reaction will tell you all you need to know, bc clearly she has very little respect for you...

The fact that this was done in secret of you is the problem.

Sounds to me like the classic dopamine junkie - and dopamine is one hell of a drug.

You are not overreacting, you were and are being betrayed and you have every right to be pissed.

IMHO if this dude is married - tell his wife. And tell the pastor while you are at it - he/she should be aware of what his/her flock is doing under the guise of ministry.

Do not let your wife know you are doing this - she'll have dozens of pleas [and lame ass reasons] for you not to.

Welcome to SI and sorry for the reason you're here. There are some posts pinned to the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read, as well as some with bull's eye icons. The Healing Library has a ton of resources, too.

From the previous EA, what consequences did you set if she had another affair? Did she do any IC to work on herself and her boundaries? It sounds like she needs to go back to therapy. How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald is a fairly quick read and outlines what she can do to help you heal. Also, Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass would be good, too. She discusses boundaries and gives a good analogy of windows & walls. You put windows between you & your spouse so that things are transparent between you. You put up walls between you & others outside of your M because there are things that are just not any of their business.

I’m planning on telling the leadership pastor of the deliverance ministry tomorrow. I’m not a chicken so it’s a done deal.

The male that has been calling/texting my wife is fully aware that I know what’s been going and he has yet to reach out to me so that speaks volumes.

I realize that I will be very pissed for a while, though. I may never get over it. Ugh.

Thanks everyone! For real. It’s nice to have educated people on a forum like this to confirm the same tired old patterns that cheaters say or do.

If this is limited to an emotional affair (and by saying limited I’m not devaluing the impact they can have on a marriage) the go-to book to deal with that is Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. It’s an easy read written for laymen and provides all sorts of exercises to help define and clarify the issue.

Keep in mind that emotional affairs weren’t recognized as an "issue" until late 1980’s. That’s not really so long ago. Even then, many therapists and mental-health professionals tended to minimize them. A "classic" affair – as in physical contact – has a very clear definition. There is little half-way in groping or being groped, having physical intimacy or shoving your tongue down someone’s throat. Emotional affair are more sublime – more undefined.
For all we know then ALL their talk has been about the church and other church-members. Nothing that is as directly perceived as a breach of marital trust. What having her (and you with her...) read Not Just Friends can do is open her eyes to the reality of what was going on.

I’m planning on telling the leadership pastor of the deliverance ministry tomorrow. I’m not a chicken so it’s a done deal.

The male that has been calling/texting my wife is fully aware that I know what’s been going and he has yet to reach out to me so that speaks volumes.

Blow the lid off of this thing today but beyond exposing it, take a hard line with church leadership in that you expect them to act firmly and in a commensurate manner to the wildly innapropriate behavior on both of tbeir part and that includes your WW. Many church's culture is insular, preferring to keep things hush-hush so as not to rock the boat. Let them know what you expect them to do. Minimum would be to have the "elders/pastors" meet with each individually and let them know that church ministries will not be allowed to be a catalyst for inappropriate contact between individuals that are married and that they need to step away from involvenent in that ministry. Furthermore, they should both be confronted with the concept of repentance including ceasing all contact with each other. Should they refuse to meet (a high probability), then a contact in the form of a phone call, email or letter should be sent to each communicating the above.

That said, since shes done this before, you have much bigger issues to deal with, as in, how did you deal with this the last time and what is it in her that allows her to betray her husband in this manner again. She is a multi-time offender and at 58 years old, her behavior patterns are pretty much set. You have some hard thinking to do as to what yoy want your life to look like in your 50s, 60s, 70s +.

BTW, if this other idiot is married, inform his wife pronto.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:16 PM, Wednesday, December 4th]

I would not go to the ministry but suggest a 3 way call (or 4 way call if the guy is married) that this behavior is to stop. It is inappropriate and disrespectful and it ends today.

Then you need to start monitoring all the secret apps and ways they could potentially communicate for awhile.

You realize he’s going to tell everyone at your church about this situation but paint himself as the innocent victim. Be prepared that this will not die quietly.

I know this type of guy. No boundaries to say the least, will innocently swear "we are just friends" blah blah blah and "he’s done nothing wrong".

If he’s married tell his spouse. That will put an end to it.

Has your wife brought some poor self esteem issues from childhood? She sounds like someone who gobbles up any attention from men. He might be just as needy but…I watched two men, one a therapist, discussing friendships between men and women and how fraught they are with poor boundaries. The old slippery slope. They both agreed there really is not a way for this to work because one of them is more/too interested. The male, sex, the female, emotional neediness.

I agree with above about the VAR. You do not ever have to admit to it. You only have to use it once or twice. Then you will know. If you confront her you do not have to tell her, you only have to demand that she stop. This could be your line in the sand.

However, if she is this needy get her to a FEMALE a therapist. She sure doesn’t need to glom onto another man.

I think all the advice above is good and valid.
However I want to emphasize the way EA’s are viewed by those that haven’t’ experienced them. As I said in my earlier posts: they weren’t’ really seen as a "thing" until late 1980...
I’m guessing your wife doesn’t see this as a problem at the same scale as you do.
Go get that book I recommended: Not Just Friends.

Tell her that if she values the marriage she will read it. It’s a short read – I guess the average person could do it in one sitting, or maybe over 2 evenings. If she can’t see her actions in that book and thereby come to some understanding about it’s inappropriateness... well... that would say a lot.

I’m going to get the number of his wife and I will be contacting her as she deserves to know. I’m meeting with the leadership of the ministry my wife and this guy is a part of tonight.

I’m taking the advice of everyone and really, really appreciate it.

It’s strange that I feel calm and cool then switch to 🤬😡 then back to calm and cool all with 30 seconds. WTF?

We call that the emotional rollercoaster. It can pick you up at any time and take you for a ride. It's normal, if that's any consolation. As you heal, this should go away...but can pop up again.

Good luck at the meeting.

Welp. Met with the leader (ship) tonight with my wife and the head of the ministry (FYI is also a woman) said over and over that now it’s out in the open you need to love forward and stop being up the past. Kept say ing my wife has repented……so move forward.

I knew it. WTF?

I did not think much was going to come from "the ministry". They close ranks and who knows what the female leader is up to herself. Have you contacted his wife and if so, what did she have to say?

You need to blow him up yourself and not rely on any ministry or other 3rd parties. Talk to his wife and show her the evidence you have.

And get ready to prepare and present divorce papers (and follow through if she does not respond appropriately).

I’m curious what you hoped to have happen in the meeting with the ministry leader. Did you have a plan with action steps, I.e. both of them kicked out of the ministry? If not that, then what? Please understand, I’m not expecting you to have had a plan but If you didn’t have a plan then I’m guessing the leader just was in damage control and tried to do makeshift pastoral counseling.

Most pastors aren’t good at this. Most trained shrinks are crappy at handling infidelity, focusing on what was wrong in the marriage, and unmet needs. Then out comes the forgiveness card. But here’s the deal. Forgiveness between two people can only happen once you have honest confession. It is possible to forgive someone who denies it all, but that is something you do for yourself separating yourself and releasing the power the other one has over you.

Do you feel like you have the full truth from using your tech expertise? What has she admitted that you would not know if you didn’t have it in writing? If so, what do you need now. Was there inappropriate stuff said ever? How does she feel towards him?

Is she tearing herself apart recognizing how stupid she was? She hid this and lied by omission for almost two years. (This I got from your posts on a different site) Something is off here, and it is not wrong for you to say, "We aren’t moving forward yet."

My thoughts are with you. I’m concerned with the lies your wife told herself to make this ok for so long.

[This message edited by Washashore at 2:05 PM, Thursday, December 5th]

"Welp. Met with the leader (ship) tonight with my wife and the head of the ministry (FYI is also a woman) said over and over that now it’s out in the open you need to love forward and stop being up the past. Kept say ing my wife has repented……so move forward.

I knew it. WTF?"

Typical.

So, you asked that they be excluded from participating in ministry, and they said that? Did you call the other spouse as well?

I reiterate to you, what do you want your life to look like? Do you want to keep putting up with this cr@p at this stage of your life? Are you in therapy to help you sort this out?

She is showing you who she is and what she truly wants. Believe her.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 6:57 PM, Thursday, December 5th]

Some people don’t view an EA as an affair.

That was how my H rationalized his 4 year EA in the 90s. No sex = no affair. 😡

I believe contacting the guy’s wife could out an end to this situation. However the advice about using a voice activated recorder hidden in her vehicle is a good suggestion too.

You don’t know the level of "addiction" she has to this EA. I can tell you in both cases my H’s addiction to the ego boost was of epic proportions. And almost caused a D — because he was not willing to end contact with the OW during his last affair.

The cheaters found secret ways to communicate w/out getting caught. Just be aware it can happen that the EA is more important than the marriage.

So how does the leadership reaction fit in with your belief-system and your view of your church?
Did they talk at all about the OM part in this?
Do you have other options in your area for your religious needs?

Can’t say I’m surprised. Tried to warn you a couple of times that emotional affairs are not always recognized for their seriousness. Once again: get that book and read it!