SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ok, been a few weeks since I last posted. Some of you may know my back story and where I'm at currently. For those that dont': BH here, almost 2 years out. I've researched the shit out of infidelity, things that I/We should be doing for recovery, things that the wayward spouse is possibly feeling after DD. I love my wife more than anything, we are best friends. I have been extremely supportive to her through the last 22 months. Her, not so much. I think she's still in denial, or dealing with shame, or whatever. I really can't ever get her into a heartfelt conversation about her feeling on this. Some have suggested she's just rug sweeping. I have been patiently waiting for her to "get it" and show true empathy and compassion for her actions and for what I'm going through, but as one member on here wrote, "hope is not a strategy"

So a couple weeks ago, we were taking a hike through a very old cemetery and ran across a stone that had the name "Shellenberger" on it. She commented "I think there's a Shellenberger Park here in town". I left it lie, but my thoughts were "yes, there is, that is one of the places you and your AP would meet up". So a couple weeks ago, I again didn't sleep and the next morning she asks if there's anything I need to talk about (she doesn't ask that very often). I reluctantly decided to tell her my feelings on the matter. I told her I couldn't understand why she would act like she's never been there when in fact she most certainly knew. I told her how that made me feel and when I was done letting things out. All she had to say was "do you feel better telling me that and getting it off your chest". There was no remorse, no I'm sorry, no empathy. Just "do I feel better now", No, I don't feel better now, I feel worse because I open up to her and she doesn't want to enter into conversation about it. So for the last two weeks, I've been a bit cold towards her because I've been into some pretty serious thinking about how she wasn't really honest with me and if she sort of lied about that then what else is she not telling me which leads me to where to go from here. Do I continue to wait until she finally "gets it" and begins to enter into true healing. Do I tell her that maybe we need to separate for a while so that she has time to truly think about whether or not me and our relationship together is worth saving and worth putting in the effort to do so. I've always felt she is putting in very minimal or non existant effort into getting through this. I think she feels it will fix itself. I guess I am hoping to hear from some waywards here on maybe what she's thinking/feeling/hoping for. I truly believe she wants to be with me and have our relationship be better than ever. I just have a feeling she's still wallowing in shame and that is preventing her from thinking of others first.

I'm getting exhausted from pulling the train by myself. I'm really beginning to think that if we split up, I could at least move on and be at peace, but damn it, I love that girl so much, even given the pain she's put me through. Am I a fool for continuing to hope she's going to get there. I really want to spend the rest of my life with someone who can/will be there for me, but these last two years, she has not. I have a really difficult time talking to her and opening up when she won't participate in the conversation. Should I force the issue of getting her to go to a couples counselor? I feel like I need an impartial 3rd party to ask the pertinent questions that I just can't, or don't know to ask, and for someone to try to "pull" the answers from her. These last two weeks of thinking have begun to steer me in the direction of being OK with being alone and living without her. Help me out Waywards, please.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 1:56 PM, Thursday, February 9th]

Help me out Waywards, please.

There is a thread in the I Can Relate Forum called "BS Questions for WS". You may want to pose some of your questions there. Hopefully a WS will see this thread and be able to help you. I think you may already know your answer though (((HUGS))).

I'm getting exhausted from pulling the train by myself

There's this old joke. Everyone's heard it. Guy says doc, it hurts when I do this.... Doc say, then don't do that.

You are doing the work you are exhausted. Stop doing the work. You have the power to uncouple those boxcars you are pulling.

Deep down inside, you are hoping that if you just rearrange the pieces on the board one more time, then She will finally have an emotional epiphany. She's probably just not wired for it. This version of her may be as good as it gets.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 2:21 PM, Monday, February 13th]

Hi Copingmybest, I'm a newly BS, but I wanted to respond and tell you how sorry I am that your WW is not meeting any of your needs right now. I, too, have thrown myself into learning as much as I can possibly digest about infidelity. I've always been in the "knowledge is power" camp for pretty much any issues I've come across in life. Unfortunately, my dad had 2 affairs during my parents' 40 year marriage (one when I was an infant, the second when I was in college) and my mom's line she always repeated was "If I can see he's putting in in work, I'll stay. If there's no meaningful progress, I'm out". She followed through with that and left after 42 years together. I've kind of made that my line in the sand as well. I'm much more adept at seeking out quality resources and information than my WH, so I allowed myself to find the resources and provide them to him, but I promised myself if he didn't make use of it, I was done. The whole "you can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink" kind of thing.

Have you guys done MC? Has your wife done IC? Has she read any of the recommendations here? Unfortunately, this is HER problem to fix. You cannot shoulder the weight of reconciliation alone or even a majority of it- that is her job.

NotBrokenJustBent, We have not done MC, she has not done IC. I have done some IC, but progress with it has fallen off to almost nothing more to gain (or so it seems). Early on, when I mentioned MC, she suggested we didn't need it because we already know what the problem was and we've corrected it. Maybe so, to a point, but now there is a new problem in that the damage that has resulted needs fixed. Her two closest friends both agree should would benefit from IC, but she doesn't seem to want to go. Maybe she's afraid of being beaten up by a therapist for being a terrible person or something like that. I just don't know. I did text her a link to the "Things a WS needs to know about their betrayed spouse" thread on this site. She did read it and said it was a very good article, but it didn't change her behavior. She also just recently confessed to listening to some poscasts about what I may be going through, and she said she learned that I have lost my "safe place" and that I need to feel safe with her. Again, didn't really change anything, and I'm not sure why she never told me she had even listened to that before. Part of my issue is that she isn't doing any work. Had she come out and told me right away that she's been listening to some podcasts, then at least I would have felt that she's doing "something" rather than nothing.

You know you commented on the waywards post about her reconciling with her husband over lunch.

In that case the husband kicked her out and filed for divorce.

Would need to re read her post but her husband did not accept her bs and it put the responsibility of fixing things on her.

But he is kind and opening the door for her but she has to walk through it or he is gone.

It sounds like you are trying to fix this and it will never work.

You don’t have to be mean and it’s ok to be honest but you cannot be doing all the work.

I know that we all jump to divorce really quickly but there is a reason for it.

The cheater has to want the marriage and be willing to fight for it. Not just be comfortable and scared of the unknown.

You can’t be scared to let her go. You can’t be doing all the work.

You’re in a tough spot as she is still there but is she really there. Cheating has consequences and the cheater has to be strong enough to accept them and fight through them.

I’m not sure forcing her into marriage counseling will help. You can ask her but if you have to drag her it won’t help.

You can’t negotiate or control her into loving you.

All you can do is set boundaries and she has to volunteer to follow them.

Did you ever tell that man’s wife?

If you did not there is a big problem. You are scarred to rock the boat because of fear of losing her.

Men who stand up for themselves would not need much coaching and would have automatically done it. That’s something to think about.

That’s not meant to insult you that’s meant encourage you to stand up for yourself.

There are so many reasons to tell that man’s wife that have nothing to do with the "greater moral good"

You don’t have 100% proof that it is even over if you have not.

I’m so sorry. You pain comes through in your words.

I highly recommend you find post from "Bigger"

I always recommend that when I post obviously I’m a big fan.

I think he always has great advice on the correct tone and how you should talk to your wife.

There are a lot of issues with your story. I do not think you are completely out of danger.

You have to stand up for yourself. You deserve better. You can’t let this odd limbo go on for years. Make no mistake it can go on for years.

I hope things work out and you get what you want but it’s not just going to happen.

She will not just "get it" with out action from you.

But again the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink"

We all know that saying for a reason.

Make sure you are taking care of your self in the meantime. Physically (diet and exercise) and financially. That’s always helps no matter what the outcome.

Take care.

Gently, if you've been holding your thoughts and feelings in, you are likely to be rug-sweeping, too.

She also just recently confessed to listening to some poscasts about what I may be going through, and she said she learned that I have lost my "safe place" and that I need to feel safe with her. Again, didn't really change anything, and I'm not sure why she never told me she had even listened to that before.

There's a difference between knowing things and acting in corrective manner on that knowledge. This is where the right IC can really move the bar on this. Because the next question from the counselor after her acknowledging that her actions made you lose your safe space is what she is doing to address that. Even a good MC would focus in on that.

Let me get this straight. Almost 2 years out. She listened to you pour your heart out to her (after pretending to care) and when you were done asked "if you felt better" much like an exasperated parent would ask a toddler who'd come out of his room after a meltdown.

That's some serious bullshit right there.

Serious bull shit indeed.

I wasn’t clear in my first post but that kind of indifference is a very serious red flag.

You may need to go back into investigation mode.

If your spider sense is tingling even a little she may still be seeing or talking to him.

You left a huge back door open not telling that guys wife.

Both him and your wife had no consequences.

That’s why the advice here is harsh.

Be careful. I really hope I am wrong.

I hope you get to happiness.

Update:
We talked last night. I told her about that little piece of dishonestly, I told her I have been patiently waiting for her to "get it" and begin putting in the work. She said that if she hasn’t gotten by now she probably isn’t going to get it. She said maybe I need to tell her what to do. I said I don’t want to "tell" you, I want you to show me initiative of doing the actual work that I need to see effort on her part. I mentioned that I had been considering separating to let her figure out if I’m who she’d really want to be with. She eventually began crying then when I tried to console her she went into a tantrum mode banging on the clothes drier and screaming. That’s when I left and stayed at my parents house.

This update reads like she wants to set you up to be the bad guy with D. That way she can say she was the poor unforgiven wayward that just made a teensey weensey mistake.

You should not have to give her a roadmap or checklist for the work she is supposed to be doing.

And if she doesn't know who/which life she really wants - that is a red flag you can see from the moon.

As for her tantrum - anger as a form of manipulation. Nothing but a toddler tantrum to get her way.

I'm sorry Coping.

FYI, my head is on straight now, I know what I want and I won’t settle for less. Either she will come around or I will be fine with it being over. I still want to be with her but I will not budge from here on out. I also notified the AP wife, now whether she’ll respond to me or not is another question. If I have to burn it all down and rebuild it from scratch I will. Like water, I can make a decision and like water I’ll cut through rock if I have to!

Thanks for the support everyone.

Coping,

I feel for you, man. I had a similar experience in that I would do the heavy lifting. I would do the bone wearing work. She would do the absolute minimum. That goes on exactly as long as you can take it for. Sounds like you can't at this point.

I think a separation, or trial separation is a great idea. My wife finally "got it" after I asked for a divorce and we started with just two weeks apart. She was snapped into reality and I was *ready* to divorce.

Now is a great time to revisit "how to help your spouse heal from your affair". You might find it hits different to reread the haphazard self-guided attempt (detain and torture option) described in that book.

I bet you'll see your wife's behavior beat for beat. People just aren't so different and special as we like to think.

I recommend you post here more often. When I was in turmoil I was posting a lot and I found it helped.

I'm also happy to take PM's if you'd prefer that.

Sending strength.

-TIF

So yesterday she was in turmoil the entire day. She cried a lot. We had a discussion and this time I wasn’t so nice trying to save her feelings. I called BS where BS existed. I think she knows I’m now serious about moving on. She is now on board with MC. I think once there (I hope) the therapist will start to ask questions that she will have to answer that may reflect how little she’s actually been doing. Fingers crossed folks. You are all a blessing to have available to lean on.

I will put my 0.02 in that MC is not even close to a silver bullet. It's a tool that only works of you are both honest dealers genuinely seeking a better marriage together. It helps solve marriage problems, not treat infidelity. In fact many people, myself included, have found many MCs will treat the affair as a shared problem and the lack of trust as a problem the BS needs to solve. It's entirely possible a bad MC will assist in blamedhifting and retraimatize you. They aren't some ordained infallible third party that will make your WW see the light.

You've been doing the pick me dance,which never works.

You're also trying to R with an unremorseful WS. Which also doesn't work.

You said she said there was no need for MC, because you two knew what the problem was,and fixed it. That sounds like she blamed you for the affair. Which is bullshit. Nothing you did, or didn't do, made her cheat. Her issues made her cheat.

Don't tell her what to do. She managed to have an affair,she can also manage to research how to heal the damage she's caused after an affair. Presumably, she knows how to google.

We are in nearly the exact same boat my friend. Though I am not quite one year out. I think having to teenage kids keeps me more in the game to try and R, but my gut is telling me it won’t work long term unless she has an epiphany. Not holding my breath for that. Willing to suck it up for 5 more years until the youngest is out of the house. I know most will say not to do that, but I need to do what is right for my situation. I guess my point is, there is likely only one direction of travel given what you have shared.

Early on, when I mentioned MC, she suggested we didn't need it because we already know what the problem was and we've corrected it.

Man, there is so much I'd like to quote, but I'm on a phone and it's tough to manage the text. The above sounds robotic, like there arexa few key volumes missing from your WW'S social-emotional library. I'm thinking she might have a personality disorder or some FOO issues. Maybe the reluctance to visit an IC/MC stems from not wanting anyone poking around in that noodle of her's...

My EXWW has been described as an emotional 🧛‍♀️ vampire who sucks the joy and life out of a room. She wasn't that bad when we were together, as I balanced the equation a bit, but after the A, I stepped back and let her navigate her own waters. Now that she is totally on her own, there is a heavy darkness about her that people comment on.

You are doing all the work trying to fix a woman who sees nothing amiss with herself. I think deep down you know what you need to do for you, but your head and heart are not in sync yet. What helped me is listing all of the good qualities my WW possessed and then the bad ones. Then ask yourself, given her history and behaviour, would you now date her if she was a stranger?

MC is just a crock of shit after infidelity. I shut our MC down when she asked me to shoulder some of the blame for the A. I even think she tried to call it "our affair". One bullshit exercise she gave us was to hold hands while facing each other and read from a script of affirmations. I actually tried it once. Stumbled partially through the first one and then choked on the second. I laughed in my WW'S face as I got up and walked away. There was no way I could read that list of Lies to her. She hadn't earned back that level of respect and I was not about to give it to her for free.

Anyway, a bit ranty on my end, but my point is no MC unless they are an infidelity specialist and the hold her feet to the coals. If not, take the money you would havecspwnt and get yourself something nice. Or start a war chest for the future.

Justsomeguy said:

MC is just a crock of shit after infidelity.

and several have noted you playing the "Pick Me" song

Just call game over and move on -

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 11:51 PM, Monday, February 13th]