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I don’t back down and that makes the arguments worse. I do agree that she is worried about the poly because she is still hiding things that she thinks will be a deal breaker she said she was ending the conversations with him before I caught it because she knew it was wrong but also wasn’t going to tell me about it which I told her bothered me that she could sneak around behind my back and was planning to hide it and hope I never found out so that tells me you have zero respect for me. Like I said everything she has is because of me I’m not saying that means I’m not at fault because I know im not perfect but again she had no credit I did I paid for her school the house we built I even put up a pool myself because she wanted one. I think she won’t tell me because she thinks I will leave even though I said tell me now and I will try to work though it but I think she is afraid to lose everything not so much me just the stuff I have given her

I’m not saying that means I’m not at fault because I know im not perfect

You're not at fault for her choices to enter into an inappropriate relationship with someone else, and that is the current major issue, right?

I guess I’m not saying it’s my fault she did what she did what I’m saying is I know I’m not perfect. I have my faults but I try to be the best father and husband I can be I always put them before myself and always have. I’m not a soft sweet talker I don’t tell her how beautiful I think she is enough.

Of course you're not perfect. No one is a perfect partner. Including your WW. The whole point of your wedding vows is the assurance that no matter your flaws, no matter the frustrations, resentments, or issues in your M, your partner will be faithful as long as you are married. Period.

It’s basic human reaction to justify your actions, and that’s what she’s doing.
I’m a former cop, and about 99% of all those I dealt with had "good" excuses for whatever got them in trouble. Ranging from "I’m not really drunk – must be flu" to "everybody speeds here" to "insurance covers what I burglarized" to "she wanted it rough" to "I had to beat the crap out of him because he wore a Vikings shirt".
That’s what you WW is doing – she "had" to have the affair because YOU did something.
(I use the terms WW and affair very liberally here – we know she did something inappropriate and we know she was in some stage of EA, but how far and how deep is what’s missing)

Occasionally I would deal with someone that would raise their hand, acknowledge their blame and accountability. As a rule I dealt with them once. Never saw them "professionally" again. This is one reason I insist total accountability is necessary to reconcile.

I don’t think you are gaining anything from arguing with her about your accountability for her decision. I think you should put that discussion to bed with the following "logic":

"Honey – If MY actions made you go outside our marriage then there really isn’t any possibility of reconciliation. After all – I was never aware that what I was doing was making you decide to go this far with OM. I can make changes, just like I have stopped drinking, but what if I start doing something else that has this effect on you without even knowing of it? Like if I forget to take out the trash two weeks in a row, would that cause you to call OM? The only way forward is if we can be accountable for our actions, and find ways to better communicate our wishes and issues."

Friend – I think your emphasis right now should be on the importance on truth and accountability. Be clear on both your anticipation and fear for the poly, because if she fails on ANYTHING it immediately tells you that this isn’t salvageable, while at the same time her passing will make you know there is something worth fighting for.

You have your head screwed on straight, even in the face of this turmoil. Moreso than a lot of people. You’re going to be just fine no matter what you find out or what happens.

Well we talked today and she is standing firm on her story of what it was no matter what it looks like and that she agrees she understands why I wouldn’t believe her account of it. With that being said she said she wants to do the poly like she is adamant she is telling the truth claiming if she passes it then what will I finally believe her. Like I’ve said I want to believe her and I want so much to know and move on. She is starting to seem remorseful for her actions but still gets upset easily so hopefully that changes soon as well.

With that being said she said she wants to do the poly like she is adamant she is telling the truth claiming if she passes it then what will I finally believe her.

On its face, this is a positive development for sure, more so if she follows through (Ill be very happy to be wrong on this). If the veracity of her claims are affirmed by her answers and she maintains a remorseful attitude, you may have something to work with and I hope you do for your sake (I am not so dour as to not love a success story). If she completely owns the behaviors that have led you to this point, is willing to renounce it and change those ways, even better.

No matter what, I encourage you to approach it all with strength and self assuredness. She needs to see a man who knows and believes his worth.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 8:53 PM, Friday, January 2nd]

After our talk and I explained how I felt and said basically I was going to file for divorce because who she has become and the lack of accountability for her choices making me the reason had done nothing but push me away from her and make me resent her. She said she understood and planned on still going through with the polygraph regardless of me leaving even I I didn’t go to hand me the results to prove her story

Your flaws have absolutely nothing to do with her affair. It's great you can recognize your faults and work on them but regardless she made the decision to violate the relationship and now the burden is on her to fix herself and try to fix a relationship

ETA: My wife as well said she was going to stop her sexting with her coworker because the conversations were making her uncomfortable and I said no you weren't. I said you had no reason to stop and the only reason you did is because I caught you. Based on what I read which was only one day of messages you were loving it. She only said that to try to make me feel better but I knew it was BS

[This message edited by WB1340 at 1:35 PM, Thursday, January 1st]

She said she understood and planned on still going through with the polygraph regardless of me leaving even I I didn’t go to hand me the results to prove her story

I truly hope she does go through with it WH, for your sake and for the possibility of reconciliation. Ive got my fingers crossed for you.

However, when it comes to this, words are cheap. I went through this same situation, adamantly said they would take the test and adamantly swore on our sons life that there was nothing else I didnt know. But, once we got close to the test date, her true colors started to show and she started a fight with me and didnt take the first test.

After I confronted her with all the evidence and she finally came clean, took months, then we rescheduled and she finally took it and passed.

I truly hope your situation is different, I truly hope in your case that you know everything, but im very skeptical of that based on everything you've described.

Overall the proof will be in the pudding, not in her words. If she actually takes the test. I would do your best to prepare for the worst case scenario. It might not turn out how you hoped.

Best of luck WH, I truly hope your situation is different than mine was.

TheBetrayedHusband the hardest part about this is I really don’t have proof I had been asking for awhile if something was wrong if there was someone else it came down to one phone call that she made when I left the house after an argument. If not for that I asked her if she knew his name and the look on her face was all I needed but as for evidence I have none it’s her word that’s all I have to go by. She swears all these things it wasn’t physical we only seen each other two three times in person in passing at work always with others around never alone. She claims she sent a selfie or two but nothing nude by either of them 6 months this went on but she can’t recall conversations they had that’s what’s so hard about this it all feels like a lie. I hope she goes to the test or confession before but it’s hard to look the mother of my children in the eye the same way anymore that’s for sure if she is telling the truth it’s going to take time but I do still love her and don’t want to break my family up

Worried

I’m going to be a bit hard on you...
I have training in handling trauma situations, and I guess I apply that training to trauma situations in my personal life. Imagine this scenario: You hear a loud scream and breaking glass. Run to your living room and your 9 year old son has fallen on a glass table, broken the glass and slashed an artery. Blood everywhere, screaming kids... chaos.
You could join the bunch of screaming kids and run around flailing your arms... Or you could try to control the situation, bark out orders so someone get’s a towel/compression you can apply to the gash, make sure someone calls 911, you staunch the flow of blood, apply a tourniquet, calm your son, get others to tend to other children... you offer steadiness... Once the medics have him in their care, then and only then do you allow emotions to control you.

It’s normal that we are all over the place emotionally post d-day. That is to be expected. But you have given us (and your wife) contradicting information. You talk about not wanting to break your family up in your last post, but talk about filing for divorce, searching for apartments and so on in other recent posts.

Like I said: Not being clear on what you want is normal. But normal doesn’t also automatically mean conductive to results.

It’s your call... You can divorce. That’s fine. That is a good way out of a marriage that has issues. But then act on it. If you want to D or think its your only and/or best option, then start working towards divorce. Don’t focus on issues like "truth" because they no longer are necessary for you to progress. Focus on the financial aspect, the legal aspect, the separation of lives, coparenting plans and so on. She can go take a poly, but it shouldn’t matter to you because you have decided to divorce.

Are her actions grounds for divorce? That is totally 100% your call. Based on what you already know then there has been some breach in trust and fidelity. You also describe a marriage that seems to have issues in communications. Its totally 100% your call.

The truth? Well... your wife insists she’s telling the truth. We have suggested the only tool we here know of to confirm her honesty. We have suggested you get a written timeline and even compile a list of questions you want answers to. From that list a polygraph operator can compose 4 questions that can cover (probably) 3 of the key factual factors that bother you the most (they often ask a key-component in 2 different questions). If she understands the gravity of the situation and passes... well... you might have 100 questions on your list but if she passes a poly on the three most important factors... you can reasonably assume she’s honest with the other questions.

Just remember – if you do the poly you need to decide beforehand a) if you are going to accept the outcome as correct and b) that your actions will be after the poly – pass or fail.

Friend – I don’t think the present situation with ongoing circular arguments between you two is getting either of you anywhere. The definitely are not helping you towards reconciling, and if you are decided on divorce they are not getting you anything you need.

Edited to add: Any poly she does without your participation is totally worthless. You will always doubt any result from that poly. If she is to take a poly YOU need to be the operators client and YOU need to establish what answers you need. Either YOU arrange the poly as part of a wish to attempt reconciliation, or distance yourself completely from it as an unnecessary step in your process to divorce.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:15 AM, Monday, January 5th]

Bigger I know I’m all over the place I do I really don’t want to get a divorce I don’t I want nothing more than to keep my family together. With that said I guess I’m struggling on this being the new normal as I know it will never be what it was as for the poly the soonest possible they had was the 9th which is this Friday. I’m trying to move past this accept it for what it is but it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to deal with. It’s like every day I have no idea who I’m going to be talking to she could love me or she could seem upset like I’ve done something and won’t tell me what the problem is. Now I didn’t find this site fast enough after it to know fully what to do I told her how i found out so she could still be hiding things just different ways her phone is still on lock down if I ask she will let me see it but gets upset at me for it. I’m trying to keep the kids away from all of this but she has been raising her voice with them around so I’m not sure what to do with all of that other than not engaging back which is what she wants so it just goes away and she can go back to acting like nothing has happened. Should I just file yes I probably should but I’m scared I’m scared of losing my children I’m scared of losing the house I built and everything I have done to secure a good future for both of my kids. So I don’t just do it and your right it makes her think I won’t do it and I’m weak and maybe I am but I’m trying to make the best decision for my son and daughter I won’t be able to give my son everything I do for baseball that he has put so much work into to become so good and it’s not fair to take that away from him because I walked away over my ego and fear. I’m hoping Friday will give some clarity or a confession before or after or that she is being truthful with me so that I’m making the most informed decision I can. I’m sorry for showing you all my back and forth

Worried

I would never suggest you "move past this" as in ignoring warnings and not feeling secure that you know the truth simply to remain married. To progress and thrive you need to deal with all the issues infidelity places on your shoulder – even if you do eventually divorce.

I want to make the following suggestion:
Let you wife know that most of all you want to be able to reconcile.
You can’t make ANY promises – the only reason either of you is in this marriage is that both of you want to be there. At any moment either of you might want out, and that’s all it takes. Of course the decision is a tough one, and not taken lightly, but AT ANY MOMENT either she or you could decide you want out.
Like at the moment she realized she was crossing some border with OM – THAT would have been an optimal time for her to decide if she wanted in or out of the marriage, and to have acted accordingly.
Make it very clear to her that the information she has shared has shook the foundations of the marriage. That the ONLY way you know to rebuild is from a basis of truth.

Let her also know that whatever form of trust you used previously is completely shot. You hardly believe a word she says. This means you doubt statements from her like that she wants this marriage, that she’s telling the truth and so on. The poly is a tool that will help you have some base for truth.
Make it equally clear to her that NOW is the time to share anything. But if she fails a poly then it’s a clear indication that a) she is hiding something and b) she doesn’t trust you. Neither are conductive to successful reconciliation.

Let her know that you are stressed for the poly, because it has a lot riding on it. You want to reconcile, but there is no way you can if you cant believe her.

Let her know that you have questions based on her timeline. The poly will most likely touch some of those questions.
In your list of questions you can have emotional ones such as "did you love him" or "did you plan on moving onwards with him" or "did you fantasize about him" or "did you anticipate this would develop to a sexual relationship". None of them will make the eventual poly-list, but as I stated previously: if she passes the poly you can logically deduct she’s telling the truth on other answers.
I also suggest you group "sex" into stages. If you ask "did you have sex" she might have a different definition of "sex" to you.
Ask "did you touch each other, like holding hands or shoulders", "did you hold each other in your arms", "did you cuddle", "did you kiss", "did you kiss with open mouths" "did you make out", "did you touch each others private parts" and so on and so on. This might eventually be asked by the operator "based on how we defined the term sex before the testing started, have you had sex with anyone other than Worried since xx.xx.xx", and probably backed up with the question "based on how we defined sex did you have sex with OM".

I suggest you let your wife know that until the test the two of you focus on being amicable. If this is to be the last days of your marriage you don’t want them to be spent arguing. Make it clear AGAIN that nothing is more important than the truth – even if that truth is that they made out or had sex – because from the truth you can rebuild. From failing the test there is no real future.

If she does pass... Friend... I suggest you two look into MC to improve communications.
I don’t back down and that makes the arguments worse.

I get that... but are you always correct? There is a difference in debating about an issue and arguing. In marital arguments the only winner can be the marriage. If you win an argument, or she wins an argument and the other isn’t content then the marriage has lost.
Like... your drinking... Fine if you decide to quit drinking. Probably healthy for you during this period to stay sober. But if you don’t think you have an issue, then if she argues that you need complete sobriety forever the only way she can get that is if you "sacrifice" your right to drink. That would be fine if you are content with that, but not if that means you can’t enjoy a good steak with a nice Malbec, or a beer after mowing the lawn. For a conflict resolution to work in a marriage both need to see the problem and the benefit of the solution. That requires the ability to back down.

I do for baseball that he has put so much work into to become so good and it’s not fair to take that away from him because I walked away over my ego and fear.

Have you considered that you staying and/or putting up with a toxic situation is maybe because of your ego and fear?

I'm no expert at this, nor do I have a lot of the sage wisdom that some other members here do, but I think I recognize it when I see it, and Bigger is very, very consistently on point and insightful. I'm attempting R right now, and I'm pretty new to this myself, but my wife is 100% on board. I have her passcodes, and not only do I not have to ask to see her phone, she volunteers it for me out of the blue pretty often. She answers my questions and doesn't shy away from the conversations. She's eager to demonstrate that she can be trusted again and wants me to have my nose in her business. As a result I've relaxed a lot and don't feel a need to be constantly following up behind her and always looking through her stuff. I'm still vigilant, but no longer hyper vigilant. Hopefully not foolishly so, but that remains to be seen. So far, for almost 9 months now, she's been very, very consistent.

I'm for R if it seems it's possible, but I wouldn't tolerate what you're getting from your wife right now. I know your relationship with your son is important and you're pretty wrapped up in his baseball, but is your son getting the best of you in the devastated and miserable state you're in right now? Seeing the friction and avoidance between 2 of you (you and your wife) may eventually take a toll also.

I'm not suggesting you necessarily file for divorce, but I do think you need to do something different because the way things are going right now is no way to live. She needs to own the damage she's done, and so far I don't think you've given her a good enough reason to do it.

In the meantime, I hope you find what you're looking for with the polygraph. I hope she goes through with it and passes with flying colors, but you do need to really think about what you're going to do if she doesn't. I agree with the logic that if you're staying no matter what, then a poly might just be a waste of time.

Bigger has been very helpful as has everyone I’m not staying regardless of how the poly turns out if she fails I’m leaving I have been getting things in order trying to figure things out and your right she is not showing me she wants to make this work. She really is acting as if I’m overreacting to all of this and I haven’t looked at her phone since this happened just because the way she is about it I did take it one night during an argument that she threw it down and I grabbed it and walked away and she lost her mind said she would call the police if I didn’t give it back so I said that’s fine I’d call them first and tell them I asked her to leave and she won’t to which she immediately calmed down. I’m at a loss really as to what to do she is standing firm on her story of the events and is not budging like I said I’m trying to keep my children out of this and for the most part I have until recently she has be yelling when they are around and I try to end that as fast as possible. Again I don’t want it to be over but if I just leave before I go through the poly what did I do all of this for.

I do have one more question bigger are you saying I should give her a list of questions that could be on the test because as of now we haven’t discussed anything about it really I know if I do it’s an instant trigger and an argument is inevitable because she will deny any of them and if her story is true then that’s the reason to but I’m not looking to argue anymore and if I’m going to I’d rather it just be that day after it

Are you happy with your life? Do you see it staying the same because of your ws current behavior? I am going to capitalize this…YOU CANNOT CHANGE ANOTHER PERSON! YOU CANNOT FORCE MORALS OR TRUTH IN THEM! The only person you control is you. If you are getting 60>100% joy from your marriage, good. If, on the other hand, you are unhappy 60>100%, can you live this way? Look at 1 year from now, 5, 10, 20. Your decisions need to be emotional and practical. This is your one life, protect it.

Her behavior seems in line for someone who is guilty and is trying to use intimidation to get you to give up and cancel the test.

Have her write out the timeline and let the polygrapher take it from there. He/she will know in a few questions if she is being honest